Lucky to Have Grown Up in Philadelphia

[TheRadioPolice]

I feel very lucky to have grown up in Philadelphia during the 1950’s and 60’s. WIBG and later, WFIL, were both great radio stations. Hy Lit, Joe Niagara, Dr. Don Rose, Long John Wade (from whom I won Monkees tickets) all did a great deal to foster my love of radio. Dave Herman with the Marconi Experiment on WMMR was also great. (“Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog’s eye.”)

Just wanted to state my belief that many of the Philadelphia stations I grew up with were ground-breaking, innovative and just great radio.

 

[Irishfl]

Yeah, Philly was once a great radio market. Its a shame it went downhill so fast, and is now one of the worst.

 

[ajhenderson]

Doesn't everyone claim their market is the worst?

 

[wprt949]

Yeah, Philly was once a great radio market. Its a shame it went downhill so fast, and is now one of the worst.
[/quote


then get xm Or sirius or an I pod

 

[fred flintstone]

Doesn't everyone claim their market is the worst?

No. Most people never hear radio from another market, so there's no basis for comparison. Philly radio geeks can listen to some New York AM, so they compare WIP and WFAN, for example. Back in the day, radio geeks the prior generation could compare Wibbage and WABC (no comparison, really). Mostly, if people aren't satisfied they assume (like Julius) it must be better elsewhere. That attitude is a reflection of the Philly attitude. And Philly radio is a reflection of Philly.

And Philly has NEVER been a great market and Wibbage and WFIL were NEVER great Top 40 stations. WFIL was always a Drake-Chenault cookie-cutter operation, which never reached the level of quality or influence of their other stations, CKLW or KHJ. Storer was always a cheap, bargain-basement broadcaster and Wibbage reflected that; surviving as long as it did only due to a lack of meaningful competition.

Infomercial hucksters and home shopping pitchmen toss out unwarranted superlatives for a living and possibly it becomes a habit. Don't buy if it one starts pitching the glory of Philly radio. Philly never compared to radio in the really dynamic markets with really creative programmers.

 

[amfmsw]

Fred...rewriting history?

WFIL was one of the most influential Top 40 stations ever. You must be too young to really understand what really happened in the Delaware valley then.

WFIL was Station Of The Year MANY times over. Stations from around the nation would fly in their PD's, put 'em up in a hotel to record countless hours of programming to research and duplicate in their hometown. The Pop Explosion talent on Famous 56 was top shelf, Browning, Nettleton, Parks, Kane, Rose, O'Brien, Wade, Donavan, Stone, etc.

Where I lived, WFIL held their own against ANY other major city radio station. WABC, WCFL, WLS, WKBW, CKLW, WBT, WIFI 92, and eventually, the City's stalwart, WIBG.

WFIL was NOT a cookie cutter. It used the best elements of all Top 40 presentations, then made it LOCAL with Philly style. I was a dyed in the wool WIBG listener, but finally gave up the ghost and became a WFIL P1 around 1970. Too bad you weren't here to experience the heyday of Philly Radio, you couldn't have been, because you're so off center on this one.

 

[fred flintstone]

I was around.
I lived and worked in several markets in that era and did a bit of travelling.
I heard a lot of Top 40 radio.

You sound like you are working off the station's press releases and promotional materials.
Don't believe the hype stations dish out.

If you had gotten around more, you would have recognized that WFIL sounded like every other Drake-programmed station, most of which were on the air first.
And if a station copies others, it is being influenced - not influencing.

WFIL was ahead of the curve in one respect. WFIL had the homogenized vanilla sound of a satellite-delivered format before anybody imagined such a thing. But Wibbage was stuck in the 50s and WFIL did have a more contemporary sound.

The only stations that came close to being top drawer then were:

WCAU with an early news, talk and full service format (although derivative of KMOX).
WIP, an excellent and original personality MOR station; some resemblance to WNEW but a far less arthritic playlist.
KYW, which once hustled and actually did real local news (although not any more).

Philly was always a Top40 backwater.
If you want influential, try CKLW. Also Drake and tightly formatted but they broke new records and made hits; other stations copied their playlists and played cuts because The Big 8 played them first.

Best overall sound IMHO was Draper-programmed WCFL, Chicago. Best energy and local feel Joseph-programmed Keener13, Detroit. Best and most dynamic Top40 Local News: KIMN, Denver. Most polished sound: KFWB, Los Angeles.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Doesn't everyone claim their market is the worst?

It depends on where you live. Philadelphia and NYC are terrible radio markets if you can't stand corporate media conglomerate driven cookie-cutter formats. With the exception of the interesting Spanglish La Kalle 105.9/92.7 (WCAA/WZAA) in the latter market, every commercial FM is about as bland and generic as it gets, regardless of format.

If you're a fan of hip-hop, the West Coast is where it's at - their stations kill the Current-leaning bling-obsessed takes on the format that we have out here. If you're a rock fan, here's a few excellent markets: LA, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Orlando, Ocean City (MD) and Atlantic City / Cape May (NJ). AC / Cape May is also excellent for Oldies fans as well, as they have a couple of decent stations with that format that seem to buck the trend of playing predominantly '70s music.

Meanwhile, what does Philly have? Generic Classic Rocker, AOR, AC and CHR? Check! Middle-aged lady "Rhythmic" format? Check! Generic "we play anything we want" (yeah, right) format? Check! Bland all-encompassing Latin station? Check! Finally, several derivative boring hip-hop stations that play nothing that came out before the late '90s? Once again: Check! Let's face it - this is a very bland market, and changes need to be made.

 

[BRUSSTAR]

Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong, but WFIL was NOT a Drake station. Fred, it may have sounded LIKE a Drake job, but according to what you've been saying, most of these joints all sounded the same anyway!

You say KYW once hustled (possibly being influential), but it was a copy of WINS from a few months earlier. And that was a copy of some early McLendon news stations. And they were a copy of a daytimer in New Haven.

Some have said McLendon's Top 40 stations were a ripoff/improvement of the Storz ones... Are you going to tell me McLendon wasn't influential?

What specifically about WFIL made it so "not top shelf"? Quite frankly, I thought WFIL (particularly from the late '60s thru the mid '70s) sounded more exciting than any Drake station (unless the jock was a Robert W. Morgan, Real Don Steele, etc.).

 

[fred flintstone]

Anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong, but WFIL was NOT a Drake station. Fred, it may have sounded LIKE a Drake job, but according to what you've been saying, most of these joints all sounded the same anyway!

You say KYW once hustled (possibly being influential), but it was a copy of WINS from a few months earlier. And that was a copy of some early McLendon news stations. And they were a copy of a daytimer in New Haven.

Some have said McLendon's Top 40 stations were a ripoff/improvement of the Storz ones... Are you going to tell me McLendon wasn't influential?

What specifically about WFIL made it so "not top shelf"? Quite frankly, I thought WFIL (particularly from the late '60s thru the mid '70s) sounded more exciting than any Drake station (unless the jock was a Robert W. Morgan, Real Don Steele, etc.).

No, KYW was not a copy of 1010 WINS. There were format similarities but with KYW, the format was re-tooled for Philadelphia. I would not say KYW was influential in the industry because other stations did not try to emulate it, or the other two Group W all news stations. Later on, KYW did turn into more a WINS knock-off but it didn't start out that way.

What keeps WFIL out of the top drawer? Jocks with OK to great pipes but with the personality removed. A very "safe" playlist. In contrast to CKLW, which did manage to inject personality despite the Drake limitations and had a music director who could stay in front of the Billboard charts. WFIL News was typical Top40 news (copied from ABC News "Live At 55") and no comparison to CK 20/20 News, CFL News or especially the ever hustling KIMN News. Again, like a satellite delivered format, they sounded slick but had no real edge and no real soul. Like most of Philly radio - then and now - it was safe and predictable.

And the key test - totally subjective - there was never anything about WFIL - or Wibbage, for that matter - that made made as a young radio geek say "I want to do that; I want to be part of that." The only Philly station I ever felt that way about was CAU. Among Top40 stations, the only ones to which I had that reaction were (pre-BI) WXYZ, Detroit - the model for all ABC Top 40 stations (not to mention the station that few years earlier had produced The Lone Ranger, The Green Hornet and Sergeant Preston of the Yukon) - and (Post BI) WCFL, Chicago (The Voice of Labor), which among other things gave the world Chickenman ("He's everywhere; he's everywhere"). CFL's jingle package is on Reel Radio. I still get chills from it.

McClendon came early to the party and helped establish the viability of the Top40 format, adding a few wrinkles of his own to what Storz had done. He was also a great promoter (of Top40 radio among other things). All that made him influential. He was the first to try all news but it never really got going in his hands. Actually, given the small number of all news stations, one can argue it never got going much at all. What also worked against WFIL being successful was Uncle Wally Annenberg came VERY late to the Top40 party - just before rock music started to change and the format started to die. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Group W had come back to town and flipped KYW to the kind of adult-full service-personality Top 40 format it had on WBZ, KDKA and WIND. WFIL would probably never have gotten off the launch pad.

 

[TheRadioPolice]

With all the hate and bigotry spewed on this board over the past few weeks, I felt that a positive post would be a nice idea. I thought there might be a few posters who had fond memories about Long John Wade doing overnights on WFIL, Dr. Don in the morning, etc. Ah well, so much for that thought.

Just my opinion, but I'd rather be an "infomercial huckster and home shopping pitchmen," than a bitter, ersatz know-it-all.

 

[fred flintstone]

With all the hate and bigotry spewed on this board over the past few weeks, I felt that a positive post would be a nice idea. I thought there might be a few posters who had fond memories about Long John Wade doing overnights on WFIL, Dr. Don in the morning, etc. Ah well, so much for that thought.

Just my opinion, but I'd rather be an "infomercial huckster and home shopping pitchmen," than a bitter, ersatz know-it-all.

I am not an "ersatz know it all," I am a bona fide know it all.

I value candor and integrity more than being "positive." Radio feeds on hype and puffery.

And given some of your comments on the Radio Nazi Board and the Radio Racket, you've forfeited any claim to being a purveyor of sweetness and light. Your bits are clever and well-produced but can become nasty.

 

[DanSteele]

God Fred why are you so pissed off? I grew up in Jersey listening to radio in Trenton, NYC and Philly. I've spent 35 years in the business working in Harrisburg, San Antonio, and Washington DC, so I have heard some terrific radio stations across the country. I think WIBG in it's heyday was a great radio station, and WFIL in it's heyday was the best I have ever heard, on air production, compelling content, community involvement and jocks that complemented the music. Jay Cook built a masterpiece and I only wish I had been good enough to work there (I sent him plenty of airchecks). Like it or not WFIL was a station that was respected nationwide!

 

[TheRadioPolice]

I have never claimed to be a purveyor of "sweetness and light." I praise those people and things that I feel deserve it. If they're buttwipes, I poke them with a sharp stick. And thanks for the nice comments about my work.

"Nazi Board?" Just because I attended a few Bundt meetings doesn't mean I wore the brown shirt.

 

[phillyaztec]

I was just checking out the Philadelphia board for the first time. That is my disclaimer in regard to responding to a stale topic.

I grew up in North Philly. After a few key stops, I ended up in New England; however, I feel very fortunate to have spent my high school, radio listening years in Phila.. I was into a soul thing and listened almost exclusively to WDAS and WHAT. My main man was Sunny Hobson aka The Mighty Burner.

At any rate, nothing more profound.

see ya...phillyaztec

 

[drmboi]

The Mighty Burner was THE MAN. His rap on "Jimmy Mack" still echoes in my head whenever I hear that song.

As far as WFIL/WIBG, I think you'll find that the actual Drake format was on WIBG in the early 70's, mostly as a response to the tightly formatted WFIL.