• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Lufkin Nacogdoches Radio Questions

O

ocala500

Guest
Is there anyone on here who is an expert on this market that can fill me in on a few things?
1. Why is KYKS so dominant as the leading Country station?
2. Are there any format holes to be filled in this market?
3. Is SFAU a factor in the ad community? Do advertisers go after that market?
4. Which station is the one most listened to at SFA?
5. Is the campus station at SFA popular?
6. What is GAP Broadcasting doing to the market?
 
Is there anyone on here who is an expert on this market that can fill me in on a few things?

1. Why is KYKS so dominant as the leading Country station?
Many reasons. I'd say Danny Merrell and Sean Ericson. And the fact it's the heritage station.

2. Are there any format holes to be filled in this market?
AC & Rock come to mind. Everything else seems to be okay.

3. Is SFASU a factor in the ad community? Do advertisers go after that market?
Barely.

4. Which station is the one most listened to at SFA?
I'm thinking K-Fox 95.5 since they went CHR.

5. Is the campus station at SFA popular?
Not really. It has its share of listeners, but I wouldn't say it's worth speaking of.

6. What is GAP Broadcasting doing to the market?
Seemingly good things. I drove by their building today actually and it says "its coming" on their sign. One can only wonder...
 
I know Gap is buying KVLL but, what happened to the station? It has been silent. Sometimes I can barely hear it. Are they having technical problems?
 
KVLL-Scott Shannon's Oldies, 24/7. Take that to the bank.
 
Whoa. Where are yall getting your information? Insiders?
 
I think GAP buying KVLL is true and pretty much common knowledge. Will they need to move the antenna on this station to get coverage in both markets or is the KVLL signal OK as it stands now? Also, what about the hiring of the sales reps by GAP from the competing radio stations in this market? I hear that GAP is going to create individual sales departments for each station. How does that compare with their current sales set up? Is this good or bad for GAP and the reps they hired? Sometimes companies will do this and get the reps interested with a large guarantee along with a no compete agreement. Then, if the rep does not work out, they cannot go back to the old station due to the no compete. Some forms of no competes are illegal in Texas but there are ways to word them that still prevent these reps from going back to work in sales at their former stations. Any comments on this? Has GAP done this in any other markets?
 
SFA's impact is that it draws businesses into Nac. SFA has little impact on ratings and ad revenue.

That's an amazing to say, when you remember that SFA accounts for almost half the population of Nacogdoches, and it's the single largest employer in Nac and Angelina counties.

SFA's annual payroll and its 14 thousand or so students pump millions and millions of dollars into the combined economies of Nacogdoches and Lufkin. Take away SFA and both towns would go back to being the sawmill towns they were before SFA came along in the 1920s.

Yet you say SFA has little impact on radio/TV ratings and ad revenue? Maybe they aren't programming right or selling it right. I think a smart programmer and a smart sales staff could make a ton of money catering to SFA.
 
Like I said, SFA draws businesses into the market. The jobs created by SFA (plus, college students' disposable income) make for a great business environment, thus adding to the economic development of the area. Problem. College students have zero effect on Arbitron. So if it's ratings you are after, targeting college students is suicide.

As for ad revenue... more and more businesses developing the area are corporate/franchise operations, which generally do not target radio as their primary marketing strategy.

Then again, I am making these observations from a distance. Anyone who is on the ground and knows better can feel free to enlighten me.
 
So is the population of Nac at about 31,000 PLUS 12,000 SFA students or about 31,000 INCLUDING SFA students?
I believe, SFA students do NOT get Arbitron diaries, so they cannot affect the ratings but, they do have money to spend and it would seem they are a market for advertisers to go after. Maybe most of them eat in the dorms and don't come to town much? I guess you can assume they stay on campus, eat on campus, wash their clothes on campus, spend money on beer and pizza ocassionally, attend frat parties and go home on the weekends where they buy clothes and shop. If that is the case, they are not such an attractive market to go after.
 
It seems clear to me that nobody here has done any serious market research in Nacogdoches and Lufkin. The population of Nacogdoches is about 29 thousand, and that includes the 11 thousand students at SFA.

I don't have any firm figures on this, but I believe only about a third of the students live on the campus, but wherever they live, they all spend money in and around the Nac area. The students and the faculty together contribute to making Nacogdoches the most "white collar" town in that part of east Texas.

I don't know what the current numbers are, but the most recent SFA budget I can find -- for the fiscal year that ended Aug 31st 2002 -- showed an annual payroll of just over 58 million dollars. That's 58 MILLION DOLLARS a year going into the economy of Nacogdoches County and its nearby environs. Don't doubt for an instant that Nac's entire economy lives and dies with SFA's fortunes.

Using a conservative economic multiplier of 3, which means each dollar taken home is spent at least that many times by someone before it leaves town, SFA's annual payroll has an annual economic impact of more than 170 million dollars. And this doesn't even include the money SFA students spend there every year.

There is some serious money to be made in Nacogdoches by a radio programmer and sales staff smart enough to figure out how to market their product to the college kid community in that town.
 
Perhaps I'm stupid, I like SFA, but programming a radio station to college students is insanity. Seriously, If J.C. Stallings, Bill Vance, the Yates family, and Clear Channel/AMFM/Gulfstar/GAP didn't do it, there is probably some radio wisdom there.

Let's look at ratings. Your average college student is not going to see an arbitron diary. If by some miracle they move off campus and Arbitron sends them a diary (which is unlikely considering Arb's recruiting methods), chances are the student will pocket the $3 and forget to mail it in. Hence programming to college students results in low returns in arbitron numbers. This is important to remember, especially when you consider that the national agencies want to see Arbitron numbers and calculate cost-per-point. For those of us in Rusk, this is a non-issue. But, if you are in a rated market (as Nacogdoches-Lufkin now is) numbers are important. (And don't forget that the national agencies tend to look for the 25-54 demo... that's great, if you're programming to 3rd-year sophomores.)

Next, let's look at local ad revenue (To heck with nationals, we'll concede those to Gap broadcasting). Your biggest radio advertisers? That's right! Car dealers. Car dealers want QUALIFIED buyers. These are buyers who either (a) have the cash to buy a car or (b) can obtain financing. In order to qualify in either of these categories, you'll need to make approximately $20k per year, or more. Avg. College Student salary? $10k. But what about mom and dad? If mom and dad are the "buy my baby a new camaro" types, that decision and purchase will likely be made in the hometown of the student, with a dealer/sales person they are familiar with. Sure, some college students will buy cars from a Nacogdoches dealer, but those dealers will have more luck per capita marketing themselves to the other 18,000 people in nac rather than the 11,000 unqualified buyers sitting in the classroom.

So, by programming your station to appeal to the college, you have relegated yourself to picking up the scraps from the nationals and the car dealers (whatever scraps Gap, Vance and Yates have missed), and have relegated yourself to package stores, bail bonds, restaurants and clubs as your primary revenue source. (And maybe banks). Of course, Jitterbugs and Electric Cowboy, your two most aggressively marketed clubs, tend to sign exclusively with one station. (When I was in town, Jitterbugs signed exclusively with KYKS, Electric Cowboy with KJCS).

As for the 58 million in payroll... Rusk TX has a similar figure coming from the state hospital and prison system... what's your point? The employees of SFA spend their money on mortgages, skyrocketing utility rates, gasoline, food, restaurants, SUV payments and insurance. Businesses make money off of them, and it has a definite positive impact on the local economy. But then again, you pick up SFA employees when you program to their demographic. (Hence, my former 40 year-old female professor would likely enjoy listening to an AC format, and my 45-year old male instructor probably listened to classic rock.)

You would think I was dumb if I programmed a radio station exclusively for Rusk State Hospital employees. Why is it any smarter to program to SFA employees? You program to the demographics, not the place of employment.

All that said, it is wise for a radio station to "wink" at SFA. But to program to it? Bad idea.
 
Oh, and one more thing. SFA is basically a town inside of a town. They have their own post office, zip code, stores, restaurants (at least until they tore down the student center) etc. etc. etc.

Now, which do you program to? SFA (Pop. 11,000), Nacogdoches (18,000) or even Lufkin?

Even when dealing with populations, the decision to target SFA does not make sense.
 
In reference to format holes.... There are two that I can think of.

1. A/C. There is no serious AC station in the market. If someone were to launch a station with the format that KOOI had before Waller sold it, I feel that it would do well. KVLL had a decent format, though it were satellite. It's downfall was its over reliance on satellite programming, and the fact the sales staff, so used to selling just KJCS, used it as a value added to get clients to sign off on KJCS packages. A good AC will make $$$$... I pitched the idea to the owners of 96.3 a few years ago, but they laughed at me.

2. Urban contemporary- such as KISX in Tyler, or the former V 99-3 in Tyler. No Rap. No hip-hop. (Bad image, attracts too many 12 year olds). Just smooth R&B mixed with some old school. You'd have a lock on an unserved demo... but you'd need patience in developing the ad clientele.
 
Marketing Nacogdoches

I didn't intend to suggest that a station be programmed exclusively for SFA students. I was only suggesting that the SFA student and faculty communities, and the school's giant impact on the local economy should be taken into account in a station's programming.

It seems to me that people in this discussion are ignoring SFAs presence, and are pretending it's not even there. They apparently don't think SFA is an important factor in a discussion of how to program and market the Nacogdoches area. I respectfully disagree.

The fact that all those other people you mention have not done it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, or can't be done.
 
Marketing Nacogdoches

I didn't intend to suggest that a station be programmed exclusively for SFA students. I was only suggesting that the SFA student and faculty communities, and the school's giant impact on the local economy should be taken into account in a station's programming.

It seems to me that people in this discussion are ignoring SFAs presence, and are pretending it's not even there. They apparently don't think SFA is an important factor in a discussion of how to program and market the Nacogdoches area. I respectfully disagree.

The fact that all those other people you mention have not done it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, or can't be done.
 
I could really be wrong but I don't think the US Census counts college students in the city's pop count. Main reason is because (just like on their taxes) parents claim their college student in their own census report. Also, if they did count college students then that would change the entire way congressional districts are drawn... Anyway, you get the point... Again, that is my understanding and I could certainly be proven wrong and will humbly hang my head in shame.

On the programming issue (I say this as a former 30 year resident of the Lufkin-Nacogdoches area) Musicsweep is right... Programming to college students in Nac has been tried before and it DID NOT WORK... (Remember Q107 in the early 90's). Also, the only time retailers want to talk to the college students is when they are recruiting for open positions.

I think Luf/Nac would be a great market to be in and a great market to make money in. The car dealers and the furniture stores are the biggest local advertisers there (just like 99% of most markets)... It would take a good cluster to beat GAP and I agree with whomever it was that said the reason KICKS 105 is so dominate is because of Danny Merrill... That guy is a radio legend in my mind.

Danny gave me the bug for this business in 1988 when he came over to the Shelby County Poultry Festival and asked me to do his remote with him... I did and that was the beginning for me... There were years I could have whipped Danny's butt for getting me in this business... But all in all, I love radio (and it's better than growing watermelons in South Shelby County)
 
Remember what Hubcap Carter (rest his soul) often said: "If this gig folds I'll have to get out and find a real job."
 
Hubcap

I'm still coming to grips with the fact that he's gone. :'(

The world isn't the same without him. We were kids together in Lufkin, and I can tell you that his personality never changed from early childhood to the day he died.

Back to how to program and market Nacogdoches, regardless of how SFA's college kids are counted, they are there, and it appears the finest radio minds we can find have no idea how to deal with their presence.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom