Mainstream country radio down the tube

[Buggin Out]

Ever heard that formats move in cycles. Country works like CHR: Doldrums and peaks.

Once a HOT new country act gets going the format's wheel will be moving again.

Absolutely!

Concerning what drpickle said, Taylor Swift I will admit is not that great live. HOWEVER, she is real, geniune and her fans love her. I have met her at a station function and she blew me away with her manners and "listener" service skills. She took the time to talk with every single fan that was there. I have never seen an artist as big as she is do such a thing. I have seen new artists do it, but not ones that had two hit records under their belt with a third on its way to the top.

After all, when you think about it, it's not about concert ticket sales, it's about selling the music. Concert ticket sales are extra frosting to the cake. They (the record labels) want you to go and buy the album or download the album for a price off the internet. Sounding good on the record is everything, but how many die-hard fans will go to their concerts, find out they suck live and not be a fan anymore? You still love them because most of what you hear is on the radio, from the album which will keep you a fan.

Especially happens with the younger demo which is what they want. They don't care about us older folks. We'll age out of the format and go to oldies or buy satellite radio, and they know it. They have to groom the younger demo now because they are the future of the money demo. Think about it!

 

[One Who Knows]

Yes I have to agree about todays country sounds like rock and roll, but like said to keep the young demos tuned in, but us older folks have to deal with it. personally love classic country over the currents but I still keep tuned in on the newcombers.
curse words are seeping in more of the new songs.whats next ,cursing on the Grand Ole Opry,If Roy Acuff and Minnie Pearl were still alive, they would have a field day washing those artists mouths out with some good soap.

What about "I'm The Only Hell My Mama Ever Raised" by Johnny Paycheck? (1977)

Hank Williams, Jr. "If You Don't Like Hank Williams, You Can Kiss My ---?" (1980 or so...)

Just a couple of them I can think of off the top of my head.

Mild profanities have been in country songs for at least a couple of decades now. It's not just today's artists. It could be a little more prevalent than it was back then, but then it's a different world today, too.

 

[Ed_Salamon]

Quote from: WPPCProductions on May 23, 2008, 05:20:21 pm
"curse words are seeping in more of the new songs.whats next ,cursing on the Grand Ole Opry,If Roy Acuff and Minnie Pearl were still alive, they would have a field day washing those artists mouths out with some good soap."


I recall having an argument with my afternoon jock on WHN, Del Demontreux, when One Hell Of A Woman by Mac Davis came out, and he refused to say "hell". More than 30 yers later, I'm thinking he might have been correct for our audience.

 

[KFodor]

On the profanity post, well said Ed. I think a lot of us were having similar thoughts back then.

I know many will disagree here, but I have to have my say:

As one who has been in and around country radio and country music since 1975, as much as I respect the music and respect the artists and greatly respect all the trailblazers of country music, I don't believe it is radio's place to define what is "country". It's our job to find the songs our listeners want to hear, and play them.

Two things have happened that have changed the music:

First, the "target audience" for country radio changed quite a few years ago. Country used to be a male dominated format. It is now female-leaned. That's why hot country singers went from being "singers with twang" to "hunks with guitars". Sex sells. And shrewd marketers (be they artists or record labels) aren't afraid to go with that angle if they think it'll work.

Second: country has almost always been aimed at a 25-54 year old audience. So, go ahead, ask today's female, or even male 30-something listener who their musical influences are. A few will say George Jones (no argument there), but most will probably more often say Hank Williams, Jr (who's been playing ZZ Top songs in his concerts for about 2 decades and, last I checked, pals around with Kid Rock), Alabama, Reba McEntire, Vince Gill (who plays a lot of Eric Clapton's "Crossroads" shows, and for good reason.), Alan Jackson, Garth Brooks and, in the next breath says: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Molly Hatchet, Z.Z. Top, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

That some artists would begin to attempt to mix the sounds together was probably inevitable.

I'm sure there will always be singers and artists who pay tribute to the traditional country sound. But, just as there have been "crossover" sounds in country since the 1960's, it will continue.

I can remember working at WONE-AM in Dayton, Ohio in 1976...one if its' top 15 songs was "Lyin' Eyes" by the Eagles. Also played: "When Will I Be Loved" by Linda Ronstadt, and "Heard It In A Love Song" by The Marshall Tucker Band. Maybe crossover was not as prevalent then, but it's always been around during my professional working life in country radio.

I know purists will disagree with my overall thinking. But even the purists can't change what was fact. And WONE was not the only country station playing those songs.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I can remember working at WONE-AM in Dayton, Ohio in 1976...one if its' top 15 songs was "Lyin' Eyes" by the Eagles. Also played: "When Will I Be Loved" by Linda Ronstadt, and "Heard It In A Love Song" by The Marshall Tucker Band. Maybe crossover was not as prevalent then, but it's always been around during my professional working life in country radio.

I know purists will disagree with my overall thinking. But even the purists can't change what was fact. And WONE was not the only country station playing those songs.

I don't have a problem with these three songs. I don't think my country station plays them, but I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But the rock-leaning country of today (Big and Rich, Montgomery Gentry) is too loud for me. My station does play Alabama (yes, "Tennessee River" did rock), Charlie Daniels and Sawyer Brown. The only song I have a problem with is "In America". Two other rock-leaning country songs I wish they'd get rid of are "Stranger in My House" by Ronnie Milsap and "Someone Could Lose a Heart Tonight" by Eddie Rabbitt. On the subject of Eddie Rabbitt, they really have no business playing "Suspicions". Let smooth jazz radio have that one. I like the song and my pop station plays it, but let's be reasonable.

 

[WPPCProductions]

Not to drift off topic. as I'm writing this post ,I'm monitoring the CMA Music Fest 2008 on ABC.To me the show is ok.if the CMA ran this show 30 years ago in 1978 when Eddie Rabbitt,Eagles,Linda Ronstadt,Marshall Tucker,Charlie Daniels,Poco,Tanya Tucker and any other country rock flavored tunes mixed with classic artists like George and Tammy, Lorretta and Conway, Porter and Dolly and of course Roy and Minnie.
Will as we know times change.this show might flop or it might be a winner.but the older country fans at that time might turn the channel.so it's 90 minutes into this special I will countinue to watch to the end.

 

[vchimpanzee]

My country station claims they don't play the same songs over and over.

Actually, this is a claim the other country stations can use against them. I do occasionally hear songs I've never heard, but unlike a standards station which has new (newly recorded but sounding like the 40s) material coming out all the time, this one doesn't seem to be adding new (old) songs. so they are playing the same songs over and over.

Whereas other country stations add new songs all the time. I just don't want to hear them.

 

[crainbebo]

Three words:
Stupid.
Stupid.
And Stupid.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I don't want to start a whole new topic for this, but I just heard Paul Harvey's "Rest of the Story". At the very end we found out it was about Merle Haggard. It was a story about how he almost broke out of prison, but the man he was going with went alone, and the other man stayed and finished his sentence, while the man who left committed another crime and went to death row.

It's two hours before sunset, and in the background I could hear good country music. Must be the station that sometimes drowns out Paul if I have to wait until 7:30 the next morning to hear him. It's a really good station, but if I can hear it that's obviously a bad thing. Because I either hear Paul's "Rest of the Story" where I was today, or not at all. On the station I don't want, there's a nice version of "Happy Birthday" that airs on their folksy morning show.

 

[ARRadio1]

True there's some pop in our country, but if you have access to Mediabase, pick any big country station you want and do a report on Artists by Station. You'll see the truth. While Flatts and Taylor and Carrie and all those you complain about here may have songs in power rotations and getting lots of spins on one, two or three titles...the most played artists remain Strait, Jackson, Brooks and Dunn, Garth, Paisley, Chesney (not exactly a traditionalist I know, but no doubt a country artist). There are plenty of new traditionalists out there getting great airplay, too...Jamey Johnson, Josh Turner, Rodney Atkins to name a few. Country's always had a diverse playlist, each song SHOULD sound different from the last. Compare the charts of the 70's to the charts of today. Even then it wasn't all about cowboys and outlaws.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Even back in the day when the Opry was in Ryman and Porter was a bigger STAR than Dolly, there were country stars who were considered too "pop" for the genre and had cross-over hits that got played on MOR and TOP 40:

1) Roger Miller
2) Jim Reeves
3) Mart Robbins
4) Maybe Chet Atkins (I know he was really dedicated to country, but he did cross-over stuff)
5) Bill Anderson
6) Ronnie Milsaps

Later Mel Tillis and Jerry Reed

Probably more----------but nobody rocked harder at times than Buck Owens-------but I thought he was absolutely great.

 

[vchimpanzee]

True there's some pop in our country, but if you have access to Mediabase, pick any big country station you want and do a report on Artists by Station. You'll see the truth. While Flatts and Taylor and Carrie and all those you complain about here may have songs in power rotations and getting lots of spins on one, two or three titles...the most played artists remain Strait, Jackson, Brooks and Dunn, Garth, Paisley, Chesney (not exactly a traditionalist I know, but no doubt a country artist). There are plenty of new traditionalists out there getting great airplay, too...Jamey Johnson, Josh Turner, Rodney Atkins to name a few. Country's always had a diverse playlist, each song SHOULD sound different from the last. Compare the charts of the 70's to the charts of today. Even then it wasn't all about cowboys and outlaws.

We don't care.

The old pop-sounding stuff sounds good, the new stuff doesn't. That's what counts.

Amazingly, I can deal with Waylon Jennings' stuff that sounds almost as much like classic rock as Big and Rich and Montgomery Gentry, whereas I can't deal with Big and Rich and Montgomery Gentry.

 

[brettmason]

Country Music is the new AC. If it had not gone in that direction it would have died a slow death (maybe not so slow). So it is targeted to soccer moms. It sounds like pop because it is pop.

As far as country music not sounding country that has been going on for a very long time. Listen to how different all of the songs during Chet Atkins "Nashville Sound" era compare to the traditionalists.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Country Music is the new AC. If it had not gone in that direction it would have died a slow death (maybe not so slow). So it is targeted to soccer moms. It sounds like pop because it is pop.

As far as country music not sounding country that has been going on for a very long time. Listen to how different all of the songs during Chet Atkins "Nashville Sound" era compare to the traditionalists.

For the last time, pop-sounding country THEN sounded good. Pop-sounding country NOW does not.

We want our COUNTRY muisc. Where I live, we have it. Maybe not Alan Jackson and newest George Strait, but it sounds good. And I don't even care that it includes Glen Campbell because I like him too.

 

[KFodor]

Country Music is the new AC. If it had not gone in that direction it would have died a slow death (maybe not so slow). So it is targeted to soccer moms. It sounds like pop because it is pop.

As far as country music not sounding country that has been going on for a very long time. Listen to how different all of the songs during Chet Atkins "Nashville Sound" era compare to the traditionalists.

For the last time, pop-sounding country THEN sounded good. Pop-sounding country NOW does not.

We want our COUNTRY muisc. Where I live, we have it. Maybe not Alan Jackson and newest George Strait, but it sounds good. And I don't even care that it includes Glen Campbell because I like him too.

If that's the case, why did so many "traditionalists" of the era lambaste Glen Campbell, Eddy Arnold, et. al. back then?
Those artists took just as much heck from folks who believed like you as Taylor Swift or Rascal Flatts do today.

In 1980, I was told by "traditional" country listeners that Alabama was going to be the "death of country music" because they were a "rock group"! You wanna say that about them now? You sound as if you might have been one of those types of listeners who called me back then.

There are such things as "country legends" stations, where artists such as Willie and Waylon and the like still are heard. The problem with the format (as much as I like hearing the music from time to time) is that it's appeal is all age 55 plus...not salable to advertisers.

Radio...including country radio...is still a numbers and revenue game. Radio must provide not only the music the majority of listeners like, but the demos the advertisers want. And right now, country is in a youth swing...(oh yeah, that's also, typically, when the music sales go up...)

I do respect all of the older artists. Been playing country music on the radio since around 1975. Come to think of it that's the first time I was backstage at the Opry. But only a few of these artists sell anymore.

 

[musicsweep]

Willie and Waylon not selling? You must come to Texas sometime! ;D

THen again, my station still plays Bob Wills, so what do I know.

 

[vchimpanzee]

If that's the case, why did so many "traditionalists" of the era lambaste Glen Campbell, Eddy Arnold, et. al. back then?
Those artists took just as much heck from folks who believed like you as Taylor Swift or Rascal Flatts do today.

In 1980, I was told by "traditional" country listeners that Alabama was going to be the "death of country music" because they were a "rock group"! You wanna say that about them now? You sound as if you might have been one of those types of listeners who called me back then.

There are such things as "country legends" stations, where artists such as Willie and Waylon and the like still are heard. The problem with the format (as much as I like hearing the music from time to time) is that it's appeal is all age 55 plus...not salable to advertisers.

Radio...including country radio...is still a numbers and revenue game. Radio must provide not only the music the majority of listeners like, but the demos the advertisers want. And right now, country is in a youth swing...(oh yeah, that's also, typically, when the music sales go up...)

I do respect all of the older artists. Been playing country music on the radio since around 1975. Come to think of it that's the first time I was backstage at the Opry. But only a few of these artists sell anymore.

I thought Alabama sounded traditional, believe it or not. Some of their hits WERE crossover, but they didn't bother me.

Back then, country music that sounded pop was not a bad thing.

But saying that Glen Campbell and Eddy Arnold (who I like as well) got attacked too is not the same thing.

Pop-sounding country today is BAD.

I do listen to a country legends station and I refuse to listen to those who say it won't sell to advertisers. I have such a station, and if I don't, then my country music listening will once again be limited to a few minutes at a time.

I listened to a station the did both new and old country for up to two hours three days a week because the clock radio came on for Paul Harvey and I didn't want to turn it off and risk having it not come back on. Some of the new songs were good ("Redneck Woman", "Some Beach", "It's Five O'Clock Somewhere", "Whiskey Lullabye") and I liked the old songs. I wouldn't do that now, and that station is now urban contemporary.

I'm not interested in the business reasons for anything. Give me what I want, or I'll just be mad.

 

[Jay F]

I think there is a pretty good variety on the country chart right now from the pop sounding acts like Taylor Swift to more traditional sounding songs like "In Color".

Country radio can not afford to go all traditional or add a lot more classics or the format will age itself into oblivion. In the market I'm in, according to Arbitron, basically no one under age 35 listens to country radio. That is a big problem. If you start tweaking the music mix to make it all traditional soon no one under 55 will listen...that would be the death of the format.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I think there is a pretty good variety on the country chart right now from the pop sounding acts like Taylor Swift to more traditional sounding songs like "In Color".

Country radio can not afford to go all traditional or add a lot more classics or the format will age itself into oblivion. In the market I'm in, according to Arbitron, basically no one under age 35 listens to country radio. That is a big problem. If you start tweaking the music mix to make it all traditional soon no one under 55 will listen...that would be the death of the format.

If people want to listen to the junk, they should have a station.

We need a station too.

I heard a song on country radio that had something to do with cowgirls. It sounded traditional enough.

 

[Jay F]

vchampanzee, Junk is subjective. Do you think Taylor Swift is Junk? Well she happens to be one of the top selling artists right now in a very tough music climate. Millions of people love her.

If there was a country station you approved of it would have to have both a mass audience and have attractive demos or it wouldn't be viable.

Out of curiosity could you list a sample hour of what you would consider a good country station?