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Many -- maybe most -- stations use Facebook WRONG.

Social Meida is, by and large, a passtime. It is something people do when they apparently have nothing else to do. 99% of what you read on social media is boring nonsense...just like most cellphone conversations you are forced to overhear...just like most text transmissions people make while driving their vehicle dangerously.

Talkradio is supposed to be POLISHED entertainment that unfolds for you and entertains you.

Trying to draw a parallel between the two is comparing apples and oranges.

If I want to be entertained with radio, I don't look for a show with the best tweets or facebook entries, or best callers, since thats always hit & miss. I look for the best PERSONALITY.

Yes, Holland, polished radio entertainment, talkradio-style, IS top down. Stop acting like that's so awful. It isn't. I enjoy it, as do many others. Even young people. Imagine that. If anything is keeping even more young people from gravitating to the format, it's not a lack of Facebook chatter or tweets from a station, it's the God-awful partisan echo chambers.
 
I'm thinkin' you mean "pastime?"

jas2525 said:
Trying to draw a parallel between the two is comparing apples and oranges.

My point exactly.

As the-mechanic-who-used-to-work-on-my-boat* would say, "There's your problem right there."
Broadcasting is one-to-many; Social Media is...many.

Both should be conversations (admittedly a notion that threatens many who think that "Talk Radio" = "I-talk-you-listen").

Back on-topic: What-broadcasters-most-often-get-wrong-about Social Media is that it's not just "another transmitter."

But puh-LEEEZ don't take my word for any of this.
MUST reading: the "Let's Get Engaged" presentation you can download @ HollandCooke.com.
(Among other Arbitron conference downloads under "If you couldn't make it to Baltimore...")

HC

* IT'S TRUE! "The-two-happiest-days-of-your-life" really ARE "the day you buy your boat, and the day you sell your boat."
 
Re: I'm thinkin' you mean "pastime?"

Holland, what you seem to gloss over is that plenty of people want to be entertained, not DO the entertaining!

Do you turn on the television set and expect to interract with all the shows you watch?

Talkradio is there for entertainment. If listeners can touch the people they listen to via e-mail or twitter or whatever else, fine, but insisting that involvement is essential to success is expecting the entertainment dog to be successfully wagged by the tail.

Then again, you routinely marginalize air talent by insisting theyre basically there to get out of the way of the important callers who really know how to entertain a crowd. After all, anybody can do it.
 
Re: I'm thinkin' you mean "pastime?"

jas2525 said:
Holland, what you seem to gloss over is that plenty of people want to BE entertained, not DO the entertaining!

Do you turn on the television set and expect to interract with all the shows you watch?

Talkradio is there for entertainment. If listeners can touch the people they listen to via e-mail or twitter or whatever else, fine, but insisting that involvement is essential to success is expecting the entertainment dog to be successfully wagged by the tail.

Then again, you routinely marginalize air talent by insisting theyre basically there to get out of the way of the important callers who really know how to entertain a crowd. After all, anybody can do it.
 
Re: I'm thinkin' you mean "pastime?"

jas2525 said:
people want to be entertained, not DO the entertaining!

You're suggesting that passive media trump interactive media...by what yardstick?

User base?
Facebook is closing in on A BILLION.

By market valuation of, for instance, Facebook, vs., say, Clear Channel or Cumulus...or BOTH COMBINED?

Or by where-ad-dollars-are-flowing?
Indulge me this eyechart:
http://getonthenet.com/60yearadtrends.jpg
(Full disclosure: That information is two years old! Imagine where the lines go now.)

Ask everyone in the room -- any room, no matter how many or how few folks are there -- two questions:
1. "Who has a phone in their pocket or purse?"
2. "Who has a radio in their pocket or purse?"

jas2525 said:
Do you turn on the television set and expect to interract with all the shows you watch?

What I expect is irrelevant. I'm a media insider, observing choices "real people" are making in stunning numbers.

To answer your question: YES, OBVIOUSLY, they DO now expect to interact.
And TV channels are begging them to.
Cable shows scroll live Tweets.
"60 Minutes" invites you to watch the-rest-of-the-interview online.
PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES field Skype questions.

Shoot-the-messenger if you will, or read the dang presentation I referenced.
 
Re: I'm thinkin' you mean "pastime?"

Holland Cooke said:
jas2525 said:
people want to be entertained, not DO the entertaining!

You're suggesting that passive media trump interactive media...by what yardstick?

Common sense. Most people, MOST of the time, aren’t interacting with what theyre trying to be entertained by. That assertion is ridiculous. Haven’t you watched people watch TV or listen to the radio? I am around people all the time who do these things and they’re not diving for computers or Ipods to get involved. They’re mostly just taking in what they’re seeing or hearing. Seriously Holland. You’re overplaying this one.

And I'm talking about what people ACTUALLY do, not what they say they do in a survey where they want to seem hip.

User base?
Facebook is closing in on A BILLION.

So? Cellphone use has pretty big numbers too. Doesn’t mean more than 1% of the conversations being had on them, like Facebook, are the least bit interesting to the other 99% of the public at large.

Ask everyone in the room -- any room, no matter how many or how few folks are there -- two questions:
1. "Who has a phone in their pocket or purse?"
2. "Who has a radio in their pocket or purse?"
3. "Who has an HD flatscreen in their purse?"
4. "Who has an xbox in their purse?"

Your argument there is specious. All because it’s not “in-their-purse”, doesn’t mean they aren’t using it at some point OR that a lack of interaction with it on Facebook is the reason it's not "in-their-purse". If there's a reason it's not in their purse, it's more likely that their purse is too small, or even more likely that they've come to the conclusion that the programming available is terrible. Different issue.

Maybe a better set of questions would be:
1. “Who has a radio in their car?”
2. “Who has a phone with them in their car?”
3. “Are you ever afraid of being pulled over and ticketed for listening to your radio?”

And I DO support the proposed ban on ALL non-passive interraction devices in cars :)

What I expect is irrelevant. I'm a media insider, observing choices "real people" are making in stunning numbers.

To answer your question: YES, OBVIOUSLY, they DO now expect to interact.
And TV channels are begging them to.
Cable shows scroll live Tweets.
"60 Minutes" invites you to watch the-rest-of-the-interview online.
PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES field Skype questions.

Shoot-the-messenger if you will, or read the dang presentation I referenced.

Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of the “feedback” you speak of, whether it be via Facebook or Tweets, is garbage. I’m talking empty-headed nonsense. You want to know why we have become a pretty unproductive society in many ways? Go on Facebook and view all the stats of users playing “Farmville” or some type of poker or are operating a virtual diner. We have mastered the art of wasting time by insisting that our interaction is critical, when in reality, it is mostly superfluous. And because media outlets want to appear to be hip, they jump all over it.

A news story on a website isn’t any more interesting because it’s got 2,000 comments underneath it from morons. When I go to the TV or the radio, I want to be entertained, not with rambling, random, amateur musings, but by pros who have dedicated their adult life to being interesting to listen to expand and expound on a variety of material. I also don’t watch the TV news or history channel to find out what another viewer has to say about something I just watched. I really don’t care.

Again, media outlets are playing into this in the same way that some guy made a bundle for a short time making tag protectors for beanie babies years ago----until everybody realized it was all a bunch overhyped nonsense.
 
Facebook is closing in on ONE BILLION users.

That number is for WORLDWIDE usage. Even though that number is impressive, WORLDWIDE RADIO USAGE far exceeds Facebook. There are way more RADIOS in use around the WORLD than Facebook addicts. With 7 billion people on the planet, one in seven are on Facebook. That means 6 out of 7 people have the good sense NOT TO be a part of the DATA GATHERING sludge known as Facebook.

Not a fan AND... NEVER ASK ME TO LIKE YOU. Because, I don't know you... Why should I LIKE you??? AND, when I hear someone on the radio pandering for a 'LIKE', I like, tune to something else that DOESN'T beg me to LIKE it or them.
 
RE "Who has an xbox in their purse?"

Anyone else who attended Birchland Park Jr. High School, East Longmeadow MA in the early '60 can quote her verbatim.

Mrs. Worthing, The Math Teacher There Was No Avoiding, would give you about three...two...one...seconds to spit-out the answer. And if you didn't, she'd cut-you-to-the-quick, asking, with arched brow, and tapping one corrective shoe, "What're you going to do? Carry A LITTLE COMPUTER around in your pocket???"

THAT was always a lonely moment.

And for years, I -- the-only-senior-in-Freshman Math in college -- thought she might be right...

jas2525 said:
When I go to the TV or the radio, I want to be entertained, not with rambling, random, amateur musings, but by pros who have dedicated their adult life to being interesting to listen to expand and expound on a variety of material.

You might like Rush Limbaugh. He's a highly-trained broadcast professional, undaunted by PPM ('damned technology).

Warning: Data you'll see here was as-of-2009:
http://getonthenet.com/nielsen-audiominutes.jpg

jas2525 said:
Seriously Holland. You’re overplaying this one.

Be patient with me. I probably won't realize you're right until I'm searching for the HD Radio booth in-the-middle-of a 35-football-field-size Exhibit Hall at the Consumer Electronics Show next week.

radiowizard101 said:
Not a fan AND... NEVER ASK ME TO LIKE YOU. Because, I don't know you... Why should I LIKE you??? AND, when I hear someone on the radio pandering for a 'LIKE', I like, tune to something else that DOESN'T beg me to LIKE it or them.

CORRECT! That's the crux of the research presentation I have referenced and posted @ HollandCooke.com, which some here seem to fear.

Yet many -- possibly most -- broadcasters-misusing-Facebook just...don't...get it.
Which is why my dang BARBER has more Likes.
(See page 1 of this thread.)

What broadcasters-who-misuse-Social Media don't get is how-their-doing-so telegraphs-to-those-using-Social Media that they're crashing the party...wearing a wide tie and bell bottoms.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
Covering CES for Talkers magazine, America in the Morning, and The Jim Bohannon Show
 
Re: RE "Who has an xbox in their purse?"

Holland Cooke said:
What broadcasters-who-misuse-Social Media don't get is how-their-doing-so telegraphs-to-those-using-Social Media that they're crashing the party...wearing a wide tie and bell bottoms.

First, let's clear up the most egregious assumption you made right off the bat: I AM NOT a Limbaugh fan. He's caused talkradio to become permanently branded as backward, which is tantamount to salting the earth where younger people are concerned.

Of course you'll find that statement oh-so-ironic, given these next few comments:

What consultants too-wrapped-up-in-stats-on-a-page and modern-gadgetry don't seem to understand, is that it sometimes takes more courage to recognize and ADMIT, that the Emperor, in fact, HAS NO CLOTHES. I'm sure at one point the Pet Rock stats were impressive too....for a rock.

The incredible majority of social media is used as an empty-headed time waster, a substitute most times for the empty-headed frivolous conversations they would've been having (and forcing us to listen to) on their cellphone.
Social media isn't very useful or productive. It's often just a distraction with very little redeeming value...like playing Tetris all day in your office.

I actually do know some people who have STOPPED bothering with it for exactly that reason. And they're under 45.
 
I once worked, in the 80s for an owner and very hands-on manager who didn't believe in television. Didn't have one, didn't want one, raised his kids without one and his son, who runs the place now, followed suit. So if there was a hot TV show it was never allowed to be mentioned on the air. Could this owner really have been thought to be in touch with his audience? Same goes for social media (by the way, THIS board is social media.

I'll meet Holland and jas halfway...I can't imagine listening to a show with nothing but callers or a host who just says "Hello, you're on the air". (like C-SPAN?).
 
RE: "by the way, THIS board is social media"

In Elvis mumble: "Thanka very much..."

borderblaster said:
I can't imagine listening to a show with nothing but callers or a host who just says "Hello, you're on the air"

Me either.

The purpose of the host's opinion is to make the phone ring.

Do it right, and half the callers will agree, half will disagree, and they'll make your show sound REAL popular (to each other, and to potential advertisers who may be listening) by using your show to talk to each other.

Done right, Talk Radio is the original Social Medium.
 
Re: RE "an empty-headed time waster"

Holland Cooke said:
jas2525 said:
Social media isn't very useful or productive.

And you're declaring that in an Internet chat room?

Yes, I do some unproductive things too. Doesn't mean I want my TV & radio experience to be muddied with the same kind of nonsense engaged in here. There's a point where I want to be entertained and not work for it.
 
Re: RE: "by the way, THIS board is social media"

Holland Cooke said:
In Elvis mumble: "Thanka very much..."

borderblaster said:
I can't imagine listening to a show with nothing but callers or a host who just says "Hello, you're on the air"

Me either.

The purpose of the host's opinion is to make the phone ring.

Do it right, and half the callers will agree, half will disagree, and they'll make your show sound REAL popular (to each other, and to potential advertisers who may be listening) by using your show to talk to each other.

Done right, Talk Radio is the original Social Medium.

Can you at least acknowledge that there are actually hosts who are plenty interesting WITHOUT callers?

Callers are a tool to use. Talented hosts don't need to rely on them to hold an audience.
 
Re: PPM has been a useful wake-up call.

Holland Cooke said:
jas2525 said:
Can you at least acknowledge that there are actually hosts who are plenty interesting WITHOUT callers?

NOT a technique I recommend.

That's because you're looking for cookie-cutter hosts, which unfortunately is all-too-common among programmers and consultants alike. That's one of the problems with today's talkradio.

The real talent in this business doesn't need to rely on callers. The callers can be used in the same way a recorded sound bite can be used...or (throwing you a bone) a TWEET from a listener.

The hosts I enjoy most, are interesting as hell WITHOUT callers....and that's irrespective to any ideological slant.
 
RE "NOT a technique I recommend."

jas2525 said:
That's because you're looking for cookie-cutter hosts

AM I?

If doing-so wouldn't yank this thread even-MORE-off-topic, I'd ask WHERE/WHEN/HOW-the-hell I've sent THAT signal. Search ALL my radio-info posts. And read the dozens of pages of stuff @ www.HollandCooke.com, where there's more content than all other News/Talk consultants' web sites combined. Then tell me that the clear, consistent narrative -- for which I'm usually flamed here -- isn't that radio needs less-typical talent.

But that's not the subject here, as the title of this thread will remind. If you'd like to rail-on about Those Darn Consultants, you can start a new thread, where you can tell me what else I'm getting-wrong, and otherwise regale, anonymously and at-length, about your personal preferences.

After all, this IS Social Media, where the users are the programmers.

Or call me: 401-330-6868

Or you can yield to the stimulus-response reflex and hit Reply right here, and add to the heap of snarky Social Media content you decry. But don't test-the-patience of R-I moderators who strive to keep this collegial and on-topic...or we'll all get sent-to-the-principal's-office known as (gulp) Take It Outside.

Having now run-out-of polite ways to invite you to READ what-you-would've-benefitted-from-hearing in Baltimore, I'll now give you The Last Word.
 
Re: RE "NOT a technique I recommend."

Holland, I always appreciate your incredibly articulate and snappy-to-the-core hyphenated descriptions of situations and concepts. I just think you are sending a mixed message.

My impression is that you marginalize hosts. Maybe, in many cases, a host isn't interesting enough to hold an audience with their take on things, sans caller after caller. Some are capable of that, though. I want more of those. Where do you find them? You got me. But don't make it seem as if hosts need tons of caller interraction to be any good. It's not always the case.. Great hosts sound great taking calls and not taking calls.

Long live top-down media. Without it, our "entertainment" would be left to millions of amateures who have their own facebook page/youtube channel where 99.9% of what you see/hear is AWFUL.
 
My opinion, FWIW, is that the RIGHT way for stations to use Facebook is not at all! Station should keep their websites up-to-the-second (which most do not.) WXYZ.com should be THE place for listeners to go for information about the station.

Social media is destroying the Internet! It's taken us back 25 years to the days when users were segmented into Compuserve, Prodigy and AOL "communities." When people discovered that the World Wide Web allowed them to break out of those insular groups, they embraced it and in a very short time everyone was virtually connected.

There's a sense of panic on the part of radio management that they MUST have a social media presence. Suppose management at the dawn of television had simply panicked, given up, and taken the position that, "We're TV without the pictures," -- then tried to send listeners away to their co-owned TV stations because, "You can SEE it on CBS-TV!" Radio might have died right then as some predicted. Instead, radio changed and became a strong competitor for advertising dollars.

Radio is not "TV without the pictures," nor is it an interactive media. Its strength is its simplicity and its ability to captivate with sound alone. There's no effort required by the listener other than to punch a button or two. Once listeners are tuned in and engaged, they should be able to enjoy the programming without constantly being reminded to go to Facebook, go to Twitter, or anywhere else. Other than perhaos a reminder along with the station ID, " ... also streaming at WXYZ.com" ... the goal should be to keep the listener TUNED TO THE STATION -- not sent elsewhere!
 
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