Buffalo March Ratings

[SirRoxalot]

The 3-month Nielsen average for Jan-Feb-Mar is out for Buffalo and Rochester. Here's everybody in-tab over a 1 share:

Subscriber	Format	JAN 25 (NOV -JAN)	FEB 25 (DEC -FEB)	MAR 25 (JAN -MAR )
WBLK-FM	Urban Contemporary	8.6	8.9	10.2
WYRK-FM	New Country	8.7	7.8	8.0
WGRF-FM	Classic Rock	6.3	7.0	7.3
WGR-AM	All Sports	7.0	6.4	6.5
WBEN-AM	News Talk Information	6.5	6.2	6.3
WHTT-FM	Classic Hits	6.7	6.6	6.3
WKSE-FM	Pop Contemporary Hit Radio	6.1	5.7	5.1
WEDG-FM	Alternative	3.6	3.5	3.5
WTSS-FM	Adult Contemporary	4.6	4.7	3.4
WBFO-FM	News Talk Information	3.0	2.8	3.3
WNED-FM	Classical	2.4	2.3	2.5
WBKV-FM	Contemporary Christian	1.8	1.8	2.2
WBUF-FM	Mainstream Rock	1.3	1.4	1.4
WLKK-FM	Country	1.3	1.2	1.1

 

[tbolt909]

What's glaring is how truly abysmal WBUF and WLKK are. Both stations are moribund. Format changes would have happened long ago, but Audacy and Town Square must figure it's pointless given the state of the industry...

 

[ckg279]

Observations from my end...

*So 102.5 broke down and started subscribing to Nielsen. And it's starting to see a bit of an uptick.
*The bottom fell out of The New 96.1 as the Christmas music effect wore off.
*MAYBE Cumulus should have let Talk 1270 die, judging by it's .5 12+ rating trend...
*WWWS can join 'BUF and 'LKK in uselessness. WWKB, too.

 

[TheBigA]

So 102.5 broke down and started subscribing to Nielsen. And it's starting to see a bit of an uptick.

Non-profits get included in Nielsen 6+ for free

 

[Buddy Shula]

Non-profits get included in Nielsen 6+ for free

So do minorities . It’s called Subscriber First policy which I have mentioned 100x before

CKG is mentioning all the “useless” stations that are corporate owned. Perhaps it’s not the station, maybe it’s the ownership.

 

[Mark1981]

Non-profits get included in Nielsen 6+ for free

But 102.5 hasn’t appeared in the publicly available 6+ ratings until now. So, I’m not sure your post is accurate. It’s been nearly two years since 102.5 became a non-profit. But this is the first time we’re seeing a number. The only explanation is that the owner paid Nielsen to officially find out how the station is doing. A 2.2? Not bad for a format of Christian pop music.

I see Buddy has weighed in here about minority-owned station numbers. Yet, we don’t see WUFO’s numbers listed here. Can someone in the know clearly explain how this Nielsen policy works? Who sees the minority and non-profit numbers? Ad agencies? The stations themselves? I do know, for a fact, that BTPM pays Nielsen, which us why we see their numbers. No need for snark. Will someone just please explain that if minority-owned and non-profit stations get preferential treatment by Nielsen, then why aren’t we seeing the numbers for WUFO, owned by minority group, or a religious station WOLF, which is run as a non-profit?

 

[TheBigA]

But 102.5 hasn’t appeared in the publicly available 6+ ratings until now. So, I’m not sure your post is accurate.

Here's the policy:

The company has made an exception to the policy for minority- and female-owned broadcasters and non-commercial broadcasters. Broadcast companies that are Black-, Hispanic-, Asian- or female-owned or are a 501-C3 will continue to show up in the data, regardless of subscriber status.

Non-Subscribers To Vanish From Ad Buying Systems Under New Nielsen Policy.

In a major change with far-reaching implications for radio, advertisers and agencies, Nielsen will no longer include listening data for non-subscribing stations in the summary dataset that fuels the major

www.insideradio.com

Perhaps they had to inform Nielsen of their status.

 

[Buddy Shula]

But 102.5 hasn’t appeared in the publicly available 6+ ratings until now. So, I’m not sure your post is accurate. It’s been nearly two years since 102.5 became a non-profit. But this is the first time we’re seeing a number. The only explanation is that the owner paid Nielsen to officially find out how the station is doing. A 2.2? Not bad for a format of Christian pop music.

I see Buddy has weighed in here about minority-owned station numbers. Yet, we don’t see WUFO’s numbers listed here. Can someone in the know clearly explain how this Nielsen policy works? Who sees the minority and non-profit numbers? Ad agencies? The stations themselves? I do know, for a fact, that BTPM pays Nielsen, which us why we see their numbers. No need for snark. Will someone just please explain that if minority-owned and non-profit stations get preferential treatment by Nielsen, then why aren’t we seeing the numbers for WUFO, owned by minority group, or a religious station WOLF, which is run as a non-profit?

You don’t see WUFO and WXRL, but agencies do.

 

[Buddy Shula]

Here's the policy:

Non-Subscribers To Vanish From Ad Buying Systems Under New Nielsen Policy.

In a major change with far-reaching implications for radio, advertisers and agencies, Nielsen will no longer include listening data for non-subscribing stations in the summary dataset that fuels the major

www.insideradio.com

Perhaps they had to inform Nielsen of their status.

Nielsen has this policy for commercial and non-commercial stations. I should know.

 

[Mark1981]

You don’t see WUFO and WXRL, but agencies do.

Thanks for that, Buddy. Now I get it. So, Big A, it looks like your explanation is not quite accurate. K-Love MUST be paying for the March book. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be seeing their numbers. I don’t buy your explanation that it took two years for K-Love to notify Nielsen of 102.5 non-profit status. Otherwise, we would be seeing numbers for WUFO and WOLF, two minority and not-for-profit stations in our market, which we never have. Obviously, minority-owned and non-profit stations have been given preferential treatment by Nielsen that allows subscribing radio stations and ad agencies to see how they’re doing. That policy is clear from what you posted. But Nielsen’s policy obviously doesn’t extend to us radio enthusiasts who pour over these publicly-released numbers each month.

 

[TheBigA]

Big A, it looks like your explanation is not quite accurate. K-Love MUST be paying for the March book. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be seeing their numbers.

If they are, they don't have to, according to the policy.

Whether they subscribed or not, they should have been listed in Jan & Feb 6+ according to the policy.

 

[Buddy Shula]

There are many confusing things about Nielsen.

 

[Mark1981]

If they are, they don't have to, according to the policy.

You’re muddying the waters here. Yes, the numbers for minority and non-profit stations are publicly listed, FOR THOSE BUYING THE RATINGS, be it a radio group or ad agency or just some guy willing to blow a lot of money on the ratings. The readers of this board don’t buy the ratings. We just see the 12+ numbers Nielsen deigns to release publicly. And these numbers only include the non-profit radio owners that subscribe. Believe me, BTPM wouldn’t be subscribing to Nielsen if they could get the numbers for free. But if BTPM opted out of the book next month, they wouldn’t see their numbers unless they obtained them surreptitiously from a subscribing source. Moreover, by subscribing, BTPM gets to see how WUFO and WLOF are doing, but not WECK because of this new policy. So, I do get why Buddy perceives that as unfair. Big A, from your history on this Buffalo-Niagara group, you believe you know all. I’ll concede you probably know more about radio that I do and will defer to you in most cases. But here, it’s clear. Non profit stations BTPM and K-Love paid for the March book, which is why we’re seeing their numbers posted here. The non-profit and/or minority owners of WUFO and WOLF do not pay, so we don’t get their see their numbers though Nielsen subscribers do. Yes, I’m sure you’ll try to explain how I’m wrong. But I need a valid explanation for why we see BTPM and K-Love numbers but not those of other minority or non-profit owners. And I haven’t seen one yet.

 

[TheBigA]

You’re muddying the waters here. Yes, the numbers for minority and non-profit stations are publicly listed, FOR THOSE BUYING THE RATINGS,

If that's true, then that's a new policy. Not the one I quoted above. I haven't seen any changes in the Nielsen policy. I'll leave that for @lanceventa

 

[tbolt909]

*So 102.5 broke down and started subscribing to Nielsen. And it's starting to see a bit of an uptick.

How is a 2 share an uptick? The old STAR format usually had around a 5 share (with a higher spike for XMAS). Since flipping to Christian Music, the station has lost more than half the audience. Of course, EMF is more concerned with cash donations than ratings.

It's really irrelevant on the Nielsen policy of subscribers vs non subscribers. Stations that do NOT pay Nielsen cannot ethically use the ratings to show potential advertisers. Even if agencies can see information for non subscriber stations, the ratings will likely be so low as to not matter...

 

[Buddy Shula]

In a true world, Nielsen would show a true snapshot of the entire market. They don’t.

I hate to say it but the numbers you are looking at are a few stations out of 30 that agencies see. These include streaming stations.

So the ratings we discuss in this board does not reflect the market anyway, we are seeing just a piece of the story.

Lance can absolutely confirm that since I am not a subscriber, and since I am not female or minority owned, I would show up anywhere. No where. No even to agencies. While the others do

 

[Mark1981]

Well, I’m done debating Big A about the mechanics of Nielsen. It’s getting boring. There are so many more interesting stories here.

WBLK vaulted to a more than two point lead over its nearest competitor, Townsquare suite-mate WYRK. Too soon to jump to conclusions. WYRK was number one as recently as December and January. This will be interesting to watch in the coming months.

97 Rock rebounded after a couple of shaky months and is back as the number three station with a solid 7.3. With Carl Russo’s retirement, it has now lost all of its heritage personalities to retirement, firing or leaving for another station. Only part-timer Anita West remains from the group that appeared on stage at the old Tralf when 97 Rock was relaunched in September 1988. That said, Shredd and Ragan are a strong morning team. Jickster has name recognition. For now, 97 Rock seems to be fine.

I was intrigued that WGR maintained a 6+ share in March. This can’t be due to the sorry Sabres. Obviously, the popularity of the Bills is attracting listeners. There have been so many interesting off-season story lines. This week’s controversial appearance by GM Brandon Beane on the Jeremy and Joe show no doubt spiked the numbers in recent days. WGR may fall back slightly in the dead period between mini-camp and the start of training camp. But the Bills success these last eight years is certainly contributing to better year round numbers for WGR.

I do get tbolt’s skepticism about K-Love’s newly published numbers. A 2.2 share is nothing to write home about. But it’s still doing better than commercially-owned WLKK and WBUF. And the fact that K-Love (EMF) has nearly half the numbers Star 102.5 used to get is noteworthy. Listeners are hearing the same style of music Star used to play. It’s the lyrics that have changed. It appears a small segment of Buffalo radio listeners must find the positive, God-centered lyrics appealing. Of course, having one of the most powerful FM signals in Buffalo doesn’t hurt. I find it all a bit interesting.

Speaking of Star 102.5, it’s now been two years since the station was sold. Contemporary listeners have spoken. Kiss 98.5 is clearly the preferred choice over the New 96.1. That latter is back in the three share range it’s long occupied, except for its annual bump above 4 in the Christmas books.

 

[TheBigA]

Well, I’m done debating Big A about the mechanics of Nielsen.

There's no debate. I presented documentation on the policy. So far there's no documentation to the contrary.

 

[davideduardo]

Since flipping to Christian Music, the station has lost more than half the audience.

To everyone, from listeners to advertisers to non-com contributors, a station that changes format becomes a different station. So, in that case, we have a general market station that ceased to operate under their prior format and became a Christian music station.

Just ask an ad buyer at any agency if they are "the same station". In this case, one format ended and another began. You can't say they "lost more than half the audience" as, most likely, the current audience does not at all share listeners with the old format's audience.

Of course, EMF is more concerned with cash donations than ratings.

And, above that, they are concerned with the message. Donations are a way of sustaining their goal, which involves bringing people to their beliefs.

It's really irrelevant on the Nielsen policy of subscribers vs non subscribers. Stations that do NOT pay Nielsen cannot ethically use the ratings to show potential advertisers. Even if agencies can see information for non subscriber stations, the ratings will likely be so low as to not matter...

Remember, advertising agencies that are subscribed do see non-subscribed stations that are above a certain level. There is a cut off, IIRC.

 

[tbolt909]

To everyone, from listeners to advertisers to non-com contributors, a station that changes format becomes a different station. So, in that case, we have a general market station that ceased to operate under their prior format and became a Christian music station.

Just ask an ad buyer at any agency if they are "the same station". In this case, one format ended and another began. You can't say they "lost more than half the audience" as, most likely, the current audience does not at all share listeners with the old format's audience.

And, above that, they are concerned with the message. Donations are a way of sustaining their goal, which involves bringing people to their beliefs.

OK. The Christian Format has less than half as many listeners as the STAR format had. Is that better? So, not a single STAR listener stuck around for the new format?
Fire & Brimstone awaits.

Christian Music is notoriously vapid product. Even Jesus said he doesn't listen to it. Some people don't want Religion sold to them and don't want to be recruited to a "belief system"...