I posted earlier that the suits need to let Margot do her thing at Dave. Someone replied saying that the "Personalities" don't program the station. You're right! But the Music Directors do. At least they schedule what the suits WANT her to play. Last I checked Margot was the Music Director at Dave. I'm sure if you sat down with her, she would say her hands are tied when it comes to opening the playlist! I've always said, you want to build a bar, let a bartender design it, you wanna build a dj booth, let a dj do it, you want to program a music driven station, let someone that knows the music do it...
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Margot from Dave
- Thread starter trhodes96
- Start date
L
lightyear1
Guest
>>let someone that knows the music do it...>>
I'm all for that ….. except you need to find someone who knows about music and what will appeal to the widest group of people the majority of the time, not the narrowest group of people, when ever the person feels like it.
Broadcast Radio, last I checked, is one of the Mass Media, not a narrowcast. The goal of most broadcast station was to garner the highest number of listeners for the majority of the time. The Dave/Jack/Bob format, how ever you want to package it, will never accomplish that goal.
I'm all for that ….. except you need to find someone who knows about music and what will appeal to the widest group of people the majority of the time, not the narrowest group of people, when ever the person feels like it.
Broadcast Radio, last I checked, is one of the Mass Media, not a narrowcast. The goal of most broadcast station was to garner the highest number of listeners for the majority of the time. The Dave/Jack/Bob format, how ever you want to package it, will never accomplish that goal.
K
kevin364
Guest
I've talked to Margo at DAVE. She does know her music. I truley wish the suits would let her do her thing. I think she would do a great job!
I do have one question as to your comment that DAVE/JACK/Bob will never
garner the highest number of listeners for the majority of
the time.
Why does it seem to be doing just that in a lot of other markets, but not here in Atlanta?? I know it's not "topping" the market in other places, but it does seem to be working.
> >>let someone that knows the music do it...>>
>
> I'm all for that ….. except you need to find someone who
> knows about music and what will appeal to the widest group
> of people the majority of the time, not the narrowest group
> of people, when ever the person feels like it.
>
> Broadcast Radio, last I checked, is one of the Mass Media,
> not a narrowcast. The goal of most broadcast station was to
> garner the highest number of listeners for the majority of
> the time. The Dave/Jack/Bob format, how ever you want to
> package it, will never accomplish that goal.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
" All my life I've always had my *#@$ together...Problem is I've never been able to pick it up" (Burt Reynolds "The Longest yard")</P>
I do have one question as to your comment that DAVE/JACK/Bob will never
garner the highest number of listeners for the majority of
the time.
Why does it seem to be doing just that in a lot of other markets, but not here in Atlanta?? I know it's not "topping" the market in other places, but it does seem to be working.
> >>let someone that knows the music do it...>>
>
> I'm all for that ….. except you need to find someone who
> knows about music and what will appeal to the widest group
> of people the majority of the time, not the narrowest group
> of people, when ever the person feels like it.
>
> Broadcast Radio, last I checked, is one of the Mass Media,
> not a narrowcast. The goal of most broadcast station was to
> garner the highest number of listeners for the majority of
> the time. The Dave/Jack/Bob format, how ever you want to
> package it, will never accomplish that goal.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
" All my life I've always had my *#@$ together...Problem is I've never been able to pick it up" (Burt Reynolds "The Longest yard")</P>
L
lightyear1
Guest
> Why does it seem to be doing just that in a lot of other
> markets, but not here in Atlanta?? I know it's not "topping"
> the market in other places, but it does seem to be working.
That assumes that it is only music people are tuning in for, but in fact it is much more. It is an identity, a lifestyle, a presentation and a feeling of inclusion. Most people want to belong to something, and most radio of the Dave/Jack/Bob variety spend all their time trying to appeal the 5% of people who are never going to be happy anyway. How many people have I-Pods? Is it even 5%? It might even be 10% of the population? That is hardly mass appeal. Sure it’s the flavor of the day in digital music, and can be a topic, but shouldn’t be the focus.
Radio is a mass medium, therefore its challenge is to appeal to the masses, not narrowcast itself. It is not the secret handshake club. And the masses are not going to jump from Bob Marley to AC/DC and be happy about it. All the new listeners gained through playing Bob Marley would be pissed away with AC/DC and vice versa.
Here is the other classic mistake radio has made post consolidation (and some pre): Let's copy what someone else is doing in another city without ever understanding the mission of the radio station and how it maintains market position. "It’s got to be the music. If we play the exact same songs as that other station in Phoenix we should expect the same results as in Phoenix.”
Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. As an industry, we have proven this to ourselves. Yet we continue to repeat the same mistakes. Edge, Alice, Jammin’ Oldies, just to name a few, were all cookie cutter formats which had a short shelf life.
One cannot take KFOG and move it Atlanta and expect it to work. We have to create an Atlanta-centric version of the station in order for it to work. And it takes a good 2-4 years to build the brand. No publicly traded company in America is going to experiment for 2-4 years with a station they paid 50-100 million for - it is just not economically feasible.
To rely solely on music to create a good radio station, you ignore 50-60% of the rest of the elements that create a good radio station. Sure music is part of it, but if you are solely relying on music to make your mark, you will loose.
> markets, but not here in Atlanta?? I know it's not "topping"
> the market in other places, but it does seem to be working.
That assumes that it is only music people are tuning in for, but in fact it is much more. It is an identity, a lifestyle, a presentation and a feeling of inclusion. Most people want to belong to something, and most radio of the Dave/Jack/Bob variety spend all their time trying to appeal the 5% of people who are never going to be happy anyway. How many people have I-Pods? Is it even 5%? It might even be 10% of the population? That is hardly mass appeal. Sure it’s the flavor of the day in digital music, and can be a topic, but shouldn’t be the focus.
Radio is a mass medium, therefore its challenge is to appeal to the masses, not narrowcast itself. It is not the secret handshake club. And the masses are not going to jump from Bob Marley to AC/DC and be happy about it. All the new listeners gained through playing Bob Marley would be pissed away with AC/DC and vice versa.
Here is the other classic mistake radio has made post consolidation (and some pre): Let's copy what someone else is doing in another city without ever understanding the mission of the radio station and how it maintains market position. "It’s got to be the music. If we play the exact same songs as that other station in Phoenix we should expect the same results as in Phoenix.”
Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. As an industry, we have proven this to ourselves. Yet we continue to repeat the same mistakes. Edge, Alice, Jammin’ Oldies, just to name a few, were all cookie cutter formats which had a short shelf life.
One cannot take KFOG and move it Atlanta and expect it to work. We have to create an Atlanta-centric version of the station in order for it to work. And it takes a good 2-4 years to build the brand. No publicly traded company in America is going to experiment for 2-4 years with a station they paid 50-100 million for - it is just not economically feasible.
To rely solely on music to create a good radio station, you ignore 50-60% of the rest of the elements that create a good radio station. Sure music is part of it, but if you are solely relying on music to make your mark, you will loose.
fyi: Dave doesn't play AC/DC and Dave isn't a Jack format at all. I also don't think Dave is a copy of anything else per se. While the Infinity Jacks are going jockless, Dave has personalities. And the music mix is not Jack. The mix is adult rock, an amalgam of triple A and classic rock but not quite either. It also isn't a replication of KFOG. And as you said, it takes two to four years to build a brand. Dave has only been around a year. It's a little early to bury it.
> > Why does it seem to be doing just that in a lot of other
> > markets, but not here in Atlanta?? I know it's not
> "topping"
> > the market in other places, but it does seem to be
> working.
>
> That assumes that it is only music people are tuning in for,
> but in fact it is much more. It is an identity, a
> lifestyle, a presentation and a feeling of inclusion. Most
> people want to belong to something, and most radio of the
> Dave/Jack/Bob variety spend all their time trying to appeal
> the 5% of people who are never going to be happy anyway.
> How many people have I-Pods? Is it even 5%? It might even
> be 10% of the population? That is hardly mass appeal. Sure
> it’s the flavor of the day in digital music, and can be a
> topic, but shouldn’t be the focus.
>
> Radio is a mass medium, therefore its challenge is to appeal
> to the masses, not narrowcast itself. It is not the secret
> handshake club. And the masses are not going to jump from
> Bob Marley to AC/DC and be happy about it. All the new
> listeners gained through playing Bob Marley would be pissed
> away with AC/DC and vice versa.
>
> Here is the other classic mistake radio has made post
> consolidation (and some pre): Let's copy what someone else
> is doing in another city without ever understanding the
> mission of the radio station and how it maintains market
> position. "It’s got to be the music. If we play the exact
> same songs as that other station in Phoenix we should expect
> the same results as in Phoenix.”
>
> Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. As an industry, we
> have proven this to ourselves. Yet we continue to repeat
> the same mistakes. Edge, Alice, Jammin’ Oldies, just to
> name a few, were all cookie cutter formats which had a short
> shelf life.
>
> One cannot take KFOG and move it Atlanta and expect it to
> work. We have to create an Atlanta-centric version of the
> station in order for it to work. And it takes a good 2-4
> years to build the brand. No publicly traded company in
> America is going to experiment for 2-4 years with a station
> they paid 50-100 million for - it is just not economically
> feasible.
>
> To rely solely on music to create a good radio station, you
> ignore 50-60% of the rest of the elements that create a good
> radio station. Sure music is part of it, but if you are
> solely relying on music to make your mark, you will loose.
>
> > Why does it seem to be doing just that in a lot of other
> > markets, but not here in Atlanta?? I know it's not
> "topping"
> > the market in other places, but it does seem to be
> working.
>
> That assumes that it is only music people are tuning in for,
> but in fact it is much more. It is an identity, a
> lifestyle, a presentation and a feeling of inclusion. Most
> people want to belong to something, and most radio of the
> Dave/Jack/Bob variety spend all their time trying to appeal
> the 5% of people who are never going to be happy anyway.
> How many people have I-Pods? Is it even 5%? It might even
> be 10% of the population? That is hardly mass appeal. Sure
> it’s the flavor of the day in digital music, and can be a
> topic, but shouldn’t be the focus.
>
> Radio is a mass medium, therefore its challenge is to appeal
> to the masses, not narrowcast itself. It is not the secret
> handshake club. And the masses are not going to jump from
> Bob Marley to AC/DC and be happy about it. All the new
> listeners gained through playing Bob Marley would be pissed
> away with AC/DC and vice versa.
>
> Here is the other classic mistake radio has made post
> consolidation (and some pre): Let's copy what someone else
> is doing in another city without ever understanding the
> mission of the radio station and how it maintains market
> position. "It’s got to be the music. If we play the exact
> same songs as that other station in Phoenix we should expect
> the same results as in Phoenix.”
>
> Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. As an industry, we
> have proven this to ourselves. Yet we continue to repeat
> the same mistakes. Edge, Alice, Jammin’ Oldies, just to
> name a few, were all cookie cutter formats which had a short
> shelf life.
>
> One cannot take KFOG and move it Atlanta and expect it to
> work. We have to create an Atlanta-centric version of the
> station in order for it to work. And it takes a good 2-4
> years to build the brand. No publicly traded company in
> America is going to experiment for 2-4 years with a station
> they paid 50-100 million for - it is just not economically
> feasible.
>
> To rely solely on music to create a good radio station, you
> ignore 50-60% of the rest of the elements that create a good
> radio station. Sure music is part of it, but if you are
> solely relying on music to make your mark, you will loose.
>
T
Twitch
Guest
> I've always said, you want to build a bar, let a
> bartender design it, you wanna build a dj booth, let a dj do
> it, you want to program a music driven station, let someone
> that knows the music do it...
>
I agree! Everyone WANTS that, but unfortunately, the powers that be make it not so. It's all about the MONEY, baby!!
I posted this in the thread below to which you are responding:
> Sorry... Last I checked, Margot was ALSO the Music Director
> for Dave!
>
This I did not know. Regardless, it is not the MD's responsibility to play "what THEY want". Sure, Margot knows her music (and is a very good jock), but that doesn't automatically give license to play what SHE wants. Although I'm sure that if she did, there would probably be a lot less complaining about dave's format and play list.<P ID="signature">______________
Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff.</P>
> bartender design it, you wanna build a dj booth, let a dj do
> it, you want to program a music driven station, let someone
> that knows the music do it...
>
I agree! Everyone WANTS that, but unfortunately, the powers that be make it not so. It's all about the MONEY, baby!!
I posted this in the thread below to which you are responding:
> Sorry... Last I checked, Margot was ALSO the Music Director
> for Dave!
>
This I did not know. Regardless, it is not the MD's responsibility to play "what THEY want". Sure, Margot knows her music (and is a very good jock), but that doesn't automatically give license to play what SHE wants. Although I'm sure that if she did, there would probably be a lot less complaining about dave's format and play list.<P ID="signature">______________
Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff.</P>
L
lightyear1
Guest
argue all you want...dave is a jack format ..trying to be all things to all people in a segment of the audience that can't be reached anyway.
My musical illustrations were just examples to prove a point, along with the other station referenced. Good radio is created through balance and flow, meeting the audience expectations and delivering an image and lifestyle consistent with the listening audience. Call it what ever you want, just don't call it good.
What were/what are great radio stations? What do they all have in common? I guarantee you its not at all related to music. Some of the best radio stations play no music at all; some play a ton of it. But that is not what they have in common.
Incidentally, I am not trying to bury DAVE, specifically ..I am trying to bury the whole genre.
My musical illustrations were just examples to prove a point, along with the other station referenced. Good radio is created through balance and flow, meeting the audience expectations and delivering an image and lifestyle consistent with the listening audience. Call it what ever you want, just don't call it good.
What were/what are great radio stations? What do they all have in common? I guarantee you its not at all related to music. Some of the best radio stations play no music at all; some play a ton of it. But that is not what they have in common.
Incidentally, I am not trying to bury DAVE, specifically ..I am trying to bury the whole genre.
S
SalesWeasel
Guest
> argue all you want...dave is a jack format ..trying to be
> all things to all people in a segment of the audience that
> can't be reached anyway.
>
You couldn't be further off base in your analysis of dave fm. dave fm is an amalgam of classic rock, hits from the modern rock hey day, and triple A.
Jack formats are all over the place...from playing Prince, to playing AC/DC. Rodney's points are accurate, and as dave fm continues to evolve (which is the option it has, given its fluidity as a so-called "non-format") it will grow, and hold its own among the other rock formats.
> all things to all people in a segment of the audience that
> can't be reached anyway.
>
You couldn't be further off base in your analysis of dave fm. dave fm is an amalgam of classic rock, hits from the modern rock hey day, and triple A.
Jack formats are all over the place...from playing Prince, to playing AC/DC. Rodney's points are accurate, and as dave fm continues to evolve (which is the option it has, given its fluidity as a so-called "non-format") it will grow, and hold its own among the other rock formats.
> > argue all you want...dave is a jack format ..trying to be
> > all things to all people in a segment of the audience that
>
> > can't be reached anyway.
> >
>
>
> You couldn't be further off base in your analysis of dave
> fm. dave fm is an amalgam of classic rock, hits from the
> modern rock hey day, and triple A.
>
> Jack formats are all over the place...from playing Prince,
> to playing AC/DC. Rodney's points are accurate, and as dave
> fm continues to evolve (which is the option it has, given
> its fluidity as a so-called "non-format") it will grow, and
> hold its own among the other rock formats.
>
Doesn't the jack format have over 1,000 songs on their current playlist and Dave about 500 songs? At the moment I am having a hard time distinguishing it from the final days of Z if anything it seems to be skewing older than the final days of Z.
> > all things to all people in a segment of the audience that
>
> > can't be reached anyway.
> >
>
>
> You couldn't be further off base in your analysis of dave
> fm. dave fm is an amalgam of classic rock, hits from the
> modern rock hey day, and triple A.
>
> Jack formats are all over the place...from playing Prince,
> to playing AC/DC. Rodney's points are accurate, and as dave
> fm continues to evolve (which is the option it has, given
> its fluidity as a so-called "non-format") it will grow, and
> hold its own among the other rock formats.
>
Doesn't the jack format have over 1,000 songs on their current playlist and Dave about 500 songs? At the moment I am having a hard time distinguishing it from the final days of Z if anything it seems to be skewing older than the final days of Z.
I just don't buy the argument that Dave is seeking to be "all things to all people" though your point that it's a tough crowd to please is probably true.
Dave is targeting men and women 25 to 44 with a special emphasis on folks in their 30s. Dave has DJs and personalities; Infinity Jack's go jockless. Dave has active promotions. Jack's don't. Dave breaks some new music. Jacks do not. Jacks are all about train wrecks. Dave seeks some level of flow and consistency in its music if you listen.
> argue all you want...dave is a jack format ..trying to be
> all things to all people in a segment of the audience that
> can't be reached anyway.
>
> My musical illustrations were just examples to prove a
> point, along with the other station referenced. Good radio
> is created through balance and flow, meeting the audience
> expectations and delivering an image and lifestyle
> consistent with the listening audience. Call it what ever
> you want, just don't call it good.
>
> What were/what are great radio stations? What do they all
> have in common? I guarantee you its not at all related to
> music. Some of the best radio stations play no music at
> all; some play a ton of it. But that is not what they have
> in common.
>
> Incidentally, I am not trying to bury DAVE, specifically ..I
> am trying to bury the whole genre.
>
Dave is targeting men and women 25 to 44 with a special emphasis on folks in their 30s. Dave has DJs and personalities; Infinity Jack's go jockless. Dave has active promotions. Jack's don't. Dave breaks some new music. Jacks do not. Jacks are all about train wrecks. Dave seeks some level of flow and consistency in its music if you listen.
> argue all you want...dave is a jack format ..trying to be
> all things to all people in a segment of the audience that
> can't be reached anyway.
>
> My musical illustrations were just examples to prove a
> point, along with the other station referenced. Good radio
> is created through balance and flow, meeting the audience
> expectations and delivering an image and lifestyle
> consistent with the listening audience. Call it what ever
> you want, just don't call it good.
>
> What were/what are great radio stations? What do they all
> have in common? I guarantee you its not at all related to
> music. Some of the best radio stations play no music at
> all; some play a ton of it. But that is not what they have
> in common.
>
> Incidentally, I am not trying to bury DAVE, specifically ..I
> am trying to bury the whole genre.
>
Dave any given week plays about 700 different songs. I'm not sure how big its actual playlist is per se. And yes, Jacks play 1,000 to 1,300 songs. Dave has at least 10 songs as "currents" at any one time. If you look at the avg age of Dave's songs, it is still several years younger than Z93. Based on my memory from mediabase 24/7 when I had access in June, I think the avg year of release of a Dave song is about 1990. At 96rock, it's more like 1982 and at 99X, 1998. At Buzz? 2002-2003.
> > > argue all you want...dave is a jack format ..trying to
> be
> > > all things to all people in a segment of the audience
> that
> >
> > > can't be reached anyway.
> > >
> >
> >
> > You couldn't be further off base in your analysis of dave
> > fm. dave fm is an amalgam of classic rock, hits from the
> > modern rock hey day, and triple A.
> >
> > Jack formats are all over the place...from playing Prince,
>
> > to playing AC/DC. Rodney's points are accurate, and as
> dave
> > fm continues to evolve (which is the option it has, given
> > its fluidity as a so-called "non-format") it will grow,
> and
> > hold its own among the other rock formats.
> >
> Doesn't the jack format have over 1,000 songs on their
> current playlist and Dave about 500 songs? At the moment I
> am having a hard time distinguishing it from the final days
> of Z if anything it seems to be skewing older than the final
> days of Z.
>
> > > argue all you want...dave is a jack format ..trying to
> be
> > > all things to all people in a segment of the audience
> that
> >
> > > can't be reached anyway.
> > >
> >
> >
> > You couldn't be further off base in your analysis of dave
> > fm. dave fm is an amalgam of classic rock, hits from the
> > modern rock hey day, and triple A.
> >
> > Jack formats are all over the place...from playing Prince,
>
> > to playing AC/DC. Rodney's points are accurate, and as
> dave
> > fm continues to evolve (which is the option it has, given
> > its fluidity as a so-called "non-format") it will grow,
> and
> > hold its own among the other rock formats.
> >
> Doesn't the jack format have over 1,000 songs on their
> current playlist and Dave about 500 songs? At the moment I
> am having a hard time distinguishing it from the final days
> of Z if anything it seems to be skewing older than the final
> days of Z.
>
B
bueller
Guest
Margot is great on the air and with music. I still miss her programming The X in Northwest Arkansas. If her hands weren't tied, Dave would be ten times better. Here's hoping.
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