MARKETING?

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

OK, I see a bridge over here so I am going to try to take a shortcut and connect a couple of these points...

Advertising is STUPID expensive, and the dimwits running radio stations these days are scared to invest in billboards because they never know when a change is a'comin'. Newpapers are fine, but as we all know, most radio junkies, don't read... they watch. That said, there was a post a few weeks back on MOViN running ads on TV. This is why. There is no investment, just cash. Problem is, those same dimwits are telling the graphic artists what to put on those boards. This is why KISS has had so much success with dedicating an entire billboard to Fergie and Eminem ( ;D anyone see my tongue implanted in cheek there?)

This is why Web sites are taking off the way they are. There is no need for investment, just drive folks to the site. Yes, there are very few vehicles equipped with full Internet (smart guy there ), but people remember the domains and pull that up before their e-mail starts working. TV is too short and expensive. NEWS is too "last century" for radio ads. BILLBOARDS are indeed effective but require a contract as if it's mortgage.

It's not about the numbers, it's about milking the audience. Urbans, Rocks and CHRurbans know where to advertise. And as long they have the billboard budget, they are convinced their stupid posters in the skies work. The others, that's why with every friggin' reset you hear the jocks pushing what again? Oh yeah, the Web site.

 

[Talktalk]

I must be one of the dim witted, i have no idea what you are trying to say...can you please clarify?

 

[firstimelongtime]

"I must be one of the dim witted"

yes, that is so. Perhaps VDV would be better with your morning coffee.

 

[little1]

, PPM carriers see a board and flip the station...

Will they?

If you're into, I don't know, let's say Hungarian death metal, are you going to flip to country just because you see a billboard that says So-and-so plays today's country hits?

If you're into polka, do you switch when you see a billboard saying so and so plays rock that rocks?

If you're already inclined to listen to a station, I think a board might remind you to flip. But they are unlikely to convert new listeners to an established station.

In other words, if you share an audience, (KDBN and KZPS, KVIL and KLTY, KISS and K104, etc etc,) it might make sense to try to convert thier p-2's and p-3's to your P-1's. But you could plaster a WRR ad on every billboard in town and that's not going to convince me to flip...

 

[MikeShannon914]

OK, OK...when I started this post, I threw out some traditional advertising resources, but YES, I know, some are outdated, don't work anymore, etc, but I'm wondering what stations are doing in ANY respect these days to promote themselves. Having high visibility at events is a great point. Websites aren't. Seems like this is the 'chicken-or-the-egg' deal...you can have the best radio website in the world, but if people don't know about your station, how are they going to know about your website? If the website is your marketing tool, and the only source that's advertising your website is your own station, isn't this a little backwards? That's why I suggested banner ads on local websites, be it D Magazine, DallasNews.com, Dallas Digest, Ticketmaster, etc. Now THAT would be more logical; surfers click through to your station's site, like what they see, and tune you in thereafter.

Billboards, no matter the cost, hit the driver while he has instant access to his radio. I don't know of any other resource that can have that much instant-reaction power. Of course, what's ON the billboard determines whether it will catch attention or not. Tiny type, too much information, etc is a distraction most folks won't even take their eyes off the road to read. Something like "KPLX--the Country Leader" pretty much sums it up, although it doesn't say whether it's new or classic or what. "KSKY--Liberals Hate Us" did much the same, tho it didn't help KSKY's ratings at all! Billboards with lists of all their shows or artists or whatever...it's too much to take in at a brief glance. And a huge photo of Timberlake and his little tattoo doesn't tell me much about Kiss-FM.

We have to realize that LOTS of folks have no clue about all the choices on the dial like we do, nor do they track them like we do. There's also a lot of people migrating to DFW monthly that know nothing about local radio than to hit the SCAN button until they find a song they like. Another scenario is a new format or a new station that needs to establish some presence and familiarity...these are all cases of where billboards can be very effective. Sure, if classical's not your cup of tea, you're not going to check it out. But maybe the guy in the next car will. We can't apply our own personal reactions to what the rest of the world might be thinking or doing...if that was the case, no one would fall for infomercial scams, everyone could spot spam emails before opening them, and no one would be paying $2.50 for a bottle of water that came straight out of the faucet. But apparently there's enough gullible, ignorant, dumb and non-analytical people in the world to make just about any enterprise successful, and that includes radio. Sure, some people don't mind being told what to think. Not everybody can be as SMART as WE are, right?

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

"I must be one of the dim witted"

yes, that is so. Perhaps VDV would be better with your morning coffee.

I am seeing a high-five in your future, first ;D

 

[Talktalk]

I see some positives in the network sites like facebook and myspance. the seem to have made a difference with talent? I see the ppersonalities using these and adding friends on a huge scale. I wish the stations knew how to take advantage of these.

 

[klifhanger]

Again you display your age. Facebook and myspace is good for teenagers and younger 20's. On a professional level? Have you heard most employers frown on it,because of what is posted and the most brilliant magna *** laude student may not get the job due to what they wrote?

Regular station websites are fine, professional and controlled content.
Facebook,Myspace are good ideas BUT often lead to problems. Three recent announcers of the DFW market, are no longer on the air because of what was mentioned . THREE!! Two are now out of the market and somewhere else,and THEY DROPPED THEIR MYSPACE -FACEBOOK. They got gigs. The third,still uses MYspace. BTW the person has been out of work for 10 months now soon to be 11.

 

[Talktalk]

It's not a reflection of age, it is a reflection on education....ARE YOU aware that facebook has a networking site for professionals? are you aware that networking groups are the the way the internet is being used now, be it facebook, myspace, youtube or others...it is a REMARKABLE marketing tool that people are still learning how to use...there will never be a cure for stupid, and if someone posts something stupid, isn't that more of a case of natural selection? (Robert, ADGUY, onetime....prove me right)

 

[adguy]

It's not a reflection of age, it is a reflection on education....ARE YOU aware that facebook has a networking site for professionals? are you aware that networking groups are the the way the internet is being used now, be it facebook, myspace, youtube or others...it is a REMARKABLE marketing tool that people are still learning how to use...there will never be a cure for stupid, and if someone posts something stupid, isn't that more of a case of natural selection? (Robert, ADGUY, onetime....prove me right)

I'll grant you this one Talk. Social networking sites are being tested by many major marketing organizations today. It's still unproven, but the sheer use of them, particularly with younger demos, is common sense smart. I agree with Kliff, that they do pose a liability issue with company employees using them for business purpsoses. Personally, I am planning a marketing test for my own Internet company using myspace, youtube and facebook. I see some real upside for my company's sales down the road. Talk, there's hope for you yet.

 

[klifhanger]

Iam going by what "The Business Journal","Harvard School of Business" and many other other business schools and leaders have mentioned. True 'talk" there is no cure for stupidity. Take a look at the majority of the so called talents on the radio using MYspace. A majority of them use sexual overtones ,insinuations, etc. I wouldn't recommend it unless the company or the station exerted control.

 

[little1]

, tho it didn't help KSKY's ratings at all!

So let me get this straight. Let's say billboards cost a couple of grand a moth each. You think stations should spent let's say 1t5-25 thousand dollars a month (minimum) for something that's not going to increase their ratings?

With brilliance like that I can't beleive you're not a CEO... :

 

[grantchester]

I always thought there were two things that needed to be achieved to market a station. The first is awareness. Let people know you exist. Make sure they know the calls, the frequency and the identity (slogan).
That could involve billboards, bumperstickers, tee shirts and such.
The second is goodwill, or loyalty. Draw the audience in. Give them entrance (en-TRANCE them). The most successful stations I've ever been involved with had both: heritage calls (and format continuity), so everyone knew who they were and what they did. And they were EVERYWHERE. Personalities made lots of appearances, promotions supported public service and public affairs. Money was spent to support affinity groups, from charities to bowling leagues. It was more than just slapping logos onto other people's events, it was actually supporting them, making things happen.

 

[MikeShannon914]

So let me get this straight. Let's say billboards cost a couple of grand a moth each. You think stations should spent let's say 1t5-25 thousand dollars a month (minimum) for something that's not going to increase their ratings?
With brilliance like that I can't beleive you're not a CEO... :

Thanks for the uncalled-for heckling and insults. I think the point is that, especially if you're a new station or, like KSKY, made a dramatic change of formats, sure, you've got to spend money to make money, and if it takes an investment like that to get your name out there, then of course, do it. Billboards are merely one resource. I'm no marketing major, but I'll stand by my earlier suggestion, that there's no other place you can hit someone better than while they're arms-length away from their radio, in their car. And no one said a station should spent frivolously or not use their brains...rent billboards in areas where you can hit your target listeners. A WRR or WBAP billboard's pretty useless off Hwy 67. A Spanish station billboard is likely a waste on the Tollway. A KLAK billboard's a dumb idea in Red Oak.

Perhaps if KSKY planted their message in areas of town where conservatives live and work and travel, they might have more than a 0.5 after 3 years. Of course, the religious undertones that run through all of Salem's properties may be a turnoff in and of themselves. But it's up to them to keep the listeners they reel in. And I have no idea if their talent roster is worth listening to or not. The format's not my cup o' tea.

 

[davideduardo]

A Spanish station billboard is likely a waste on the Tollway.

Why?

 

[klifhanger]

Self explanatory.

 

[davideduardo]

Self explanatory.

Not really:

The two "bigot's answers" would be,

1) Hispanics don't have enough money to use toll roads. This is untrue.
2) Nowhere Hispanics go is on the toll road route. Also untrue. With nearly 30% of the market Hispanic, there are Hispanic points of origin and destinations everywhere in the area.

Please, tell me there is a third answer I missed. Otherwise, the conclusion is obvious.

 

[little1]

So let me get this straight. Let's say billboards cost a couple of grand a moth each. You think stations should spent let's say 1t5-25 thousand dollars a month (minimum) for something that's not going to increase their ratings?
With brilliance like that I can't beleive you're not a CEO... :

Thanks for the uncalled-for heckling and insults.
(snip)
Perhaps if KSKY planted their message in areas of town where conservatives live and work and travel, they might have more than a 0.5 after 3 years.

Uncalled for?
If you were working for me and seriously suggested spending THOUSANDS of dollars on a marketing campaign that has yet to show any results, I'd be calling HR and figuring out how I can ease you outthe door...

Look, on one hand you seem to be saying that stations should market themselves. But on the other hand you're as much as admittingthat KSKY has been doing that w/billboards and having no effect.

Do you not see teh disconnect?
I don't argue that they should be marketing themselves, I just think that, obviously, billboards aren't the smart way for them to do it. If they're making that investement, and not getting any pay off, it's time to look at a different form of marketing. Like buying a direct mail list from the Republican National Commitee and using that... ;D

 

[MikeShannon914]

Well, Little 1, you kinda confused me with which side of the fence you were riding on your original post. Sure, if it didn't work for KSKY, then why spend any more money on it? Then again, was the message clear, or did the billboard convey something to grab the driver's attention? There may be something else at fault than just 'throwing up a billboard' and going with it, and assuming that, because there was no reaction, all billboard advertising is stupid. I'd assume the concept works for others, though I'm not privy to whatever post-research might be done to see if listeners found a station via the billboards. I already mentioned the PLACEMENT being a factor. What else do you want here? If you've had bad luck with billboards in the past personally, I'm not the one to tell you to try a different message or approach. Others may have found my little commentary useful.

DE, I don't know how familiar you are with this area, but the Tollway is a straight route to and from "Whitesville" (how bigoted of me, a white person calling it that.) Sure, as in ANY neighborhood, you have a melting pot of races, creeds, backgrounds and whatever, anywhere you go...but what one is considered 'predominant' in a given area? I'm sure that you, as a CONsultant, have NEVER drawn inferences and made assumptions and drawn conclusions or created marketing plans based on heavier-than-normal saturations of races in one section of a given area, and you've never programmed a station based on race instead of 'just people.' Yeah, right. It's not bigotry, it's being smart and paying attention to the obvious. Let's do a quick example: Let's say that Plano, which incorporates a major portion of the Tollway, is 65% white, 20% black, 10% Hispanic and 5% Asian. Wouldn't that be less attractive for your billboard than an area in Dallas that's perhaps 65% Hispanic, 20% white, 10% black, etc? If you're going to get all sensitive about this, why haven't you come to the defense of blacks, who are typically assumed to be relegated to the southern areas of Dallas when discussed on the board? I've avoided all discussions of radio with you up to this point. It doesn't take much reading to find out who you are and what you're all about, and that arguing any point with you is a waste of time. So now that I've addressed your crass comment, I'll return to lurking mode when it comes to your 'assessments' of the industry. Needless to say, they hold little weight with the rest of us here.

 

[little1]

Well, Little 1, you kinda confused me with which side of the fence you were riding on your original post. Sure, if it didn't work for KSKY, then why spend any more money on it? Then again, was the message clear, or did the billboard convey something to grab the driver's attention? There may be something else at fault than just 'throwing up a billboard' and going with it, and assuming that, because there was no reaction, all billboard advertising is stupid. I'd assume the concept works for others, though I'm not privy to whatever post-research might be done to see if listeners found a station via the billboards. I already mentioned the PLACEMENT being a factor. What else do you want here? If you've had bad luck with billboards in the past personally, I'm not the one to tell you to try a different message or approach. Others may have found my little commentary useful.

I'd like people to understand basic Radio 101.
Used as a marketing tool, billboards should increase your cume. IE, they should make more people tune into your station. If you're running billboards and not seeing an increase in cume growth, they aren't working.

And I'm not saying all billboard advertising is stupid. I'm saying throwing money away on a campaign that isn't working is stupid.