That's what EAS is for. In that sense, very similar to the situation in Minot.
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Maui fires & cell phone service failed
- Thread starter alok
- Start date
That, too.
If you’re talking about something like a ln approaching hurricane and you’re sharing the official evacuation routes from whatever agency, that’s one thing. We’re talking about what was for all practical purposes a flashover engulfing a town.
And for damn sure if I was running/driving for my life seeing those flames approaching, radio is the last (bleep)ing thing on my mind. (Then again, I can’t fathom the people filming while surrounded by the flames, so what do I know.)
And let’s just say they had a station based right there, 24 hours a day with a local person incredibly versed in what to do in a once in a lifetime fire disaster. Likely such a station would be in a building in Lahaina and would have been incinerated in minutes. Whatever poor soul was there would hopefully have run for their lives.
If you’re talking about something like a ln approaching hurricane and you’re sharing the official evacuation routes from whatever agency, that’s one thing. We’re talking about what was for all practical purposes a flashover engulfing a town.
And for damn sure if I was running/driving for my life seeing those flames approaching, radio is the last (bleep)ing thing on my mind. (Then again, I can’t fathom the people filming while surrounded by the flames, so what do I know.)
And let’s just say they had a station based right there, 24 hours a day with a local person incredibly versed in what to do in a once in a lifetime fire disaster. Likely such a station would be in a building in Lahaina and would have been incinerated in minutes. Whatever poor soul was there would hopefully have run for their lives.
Exactly. All this what-if thinking is frustrating. What if all radio stations were staffed 24/7? Stations aren't allowed to activate an EAS alert without federal, State, or local municipalities approving them to do so with proper activation codes and scripts. Some overnight board op would likely not know which code would apply, let alone how to change codes. What would the alert be? Brush fire? This is an Hawiian island people! What would someone do in the middle of the night at the local radio station when it came to direct the general population what to do? Which roads are open to evacuation and from which area? Off the cuff reporting would have likely caused more panic, misdirection and deaths. Besides, at 3AM, most people are asleep, not listening to the local radio station.
And the situation would have been changing so quickly an EAS alert would be outdated almost immediately. The fire was being fanned by +/- 80mph winds. It would be spreading faster than anyone could keep up with evacuation plans, not that it mattered with one road out. Get to the ocean is/was the best option and it was a crappy one. The harbors were burning—docks on fire, lots of fuel in the midst of a raging inferno, darkness and hazards in the water. It may have been the least bad, but it sure as heck wasn’t a good one.
What is the saying? An army is always prepared to fight its last war (i.e. not the one it actually has to fight at the moment).
In the coming months, there will be intensive review of what happened and what failed. There will be retributions. Politicians will hold hearings. Some will be useful; some will be opportunities for noise and bluster. There will be much talk of "lessons learned". Entries will be added to risk registers. Lawsuits will be filed. Hawaiian Electric will seek advice from Pacific Gas & Electric (not where *I* would go for advice, but at least it's an example of wildlife aftermath) on legal defenses, potential financial maneuvers, etc. And it will be likely that the residents will never be made whole. Too many other fingers in that pie now. Look at what happened in Paradise, California. That could well be the template.
What will radio's part be in all this? My feeling is: not much. Radio is not as significant a public service (any more) as we would like to think.
In the coming months, there will be intensive review of what happened and what failed. There will be retributions. Politicians will hold hearings. Some will be useful; some will be opportunities for noise and bluster. There will be much talk of "lessons learned". Entries will be added to risk registers. Lawsuits will be filed. Hawaiian Electric will seek advice from Pacific Gas & Electric (not where *I* would go for advice, but at least it's an example of wildlife aftermath) on legal defenses, potential financial maneuvers, etc. And it will be likely that the residents will never be made whole. Too many other fingers in that pie now. Look at what happened in Paradise, California. That could well be the template.
What will radio's part be in all this? My feeling is: not much. Radio is not as significant a public service (any more) as we would like to think.
The recriminations are already underway. From the people who have experienced this nearly unimaginable trauma, that's entirely to be expected. The anger, the grief, the frustration needs an outlet. Hell, it needs more than one outlet. There will be understandable rage and heartache for the foreseeable future. And yeah, sadly some political types will use it to score cheap points. Unfortunately we likely haven't even scratched the surface of just how horrific the toll was.
There are going to be some real questions about what the future of the island looks like. How much of what was destroyed will be rebuilt, and how quickly? How does an island very reliant on tourism put another long pause on that and rebuild it? Lahaina will never be what it was. It will become something new and eventually tourists will be back. Kaanapali appears relatively better off, and can accommodate tourists in time. Will they have the staff when people have been burned out of their homes? How long will it take to rebuild an entire town that was devastated on that scale?
And let's be honest, there will be vultures looking to scoop up land from those unable to rebuild. More lavish private estates, and less housing for those who truly called the island home? We've seen it happen elsewhere. I doubt this will be any different.
There are going to be some real questions about what the future of the island looks like. How much of what was destroyed will be rebuilt, and how quickly? How does an island very reliant on tourism put another long pause on that and rebuild it? Lahaina will never be what it was. It will become something new and eventually tourists will be back. Kaanapali appears relatively better off, and can accommodate tourists in time. Will they have the staff when people have been burned out of their homes? How long will it take to rebuild an entire town that was devastated on that scale?
And let's be honest, there will be vultures looking to scoop up land from those unable to rebuild. More lavish private estates, and less housing for those who truly called the island home? We've seen it happen elsewhere. I doubt this will be any different.
Here is an update on the Maui Wildfires.
Note Hawaiian electric is under investigation over the failure to reduce the risk of wildfires. This story sounds familiar to those that live in Northern California with the PG&E lawsuit related to wildfires and in Southern California when SoCal Edison was sued over their wildfire response.
PG&E to pay $55 million for two massive California wildfires
Pacific Gas & Electric has agreed to pay more than $55 million to avoid criminal prosecution for two major wildfires started by its aging power lines in Northern California.
www.pbs.org
Southern California Edison agrees to $550 million in fines for role in 5 wildfires
The agreement relates to the Thomas, Woolsey, Rye, Meyers and Liberty fires, which collectively burned through more than 380,000 acres in 2017 and 2018.
www.latimes.com
Maui wildfires live updates: Death toll rises to 106
Live updates on the deadly wildfires on Maui.
106 people found dead due to the Maui Wildfires.
We know that count is likely to continue increasing.
And those who aren't familiar with, or lived 'Island Life', don't understand what it's like, or the mindset.
Heard an interview on The Daily from the NY Times with a native Hawaiian woman pastor whose church survived the fire, but burned down the adjoining hall. The refreshing part of the interview was she never pointed fingers or showed any form of outrage or blame. Her attitude was; let's get through this setback, pray for and remember the dead, and set about rebuilding and strengthening the community. The pastor said from what she could tell, nobody expected this sort of thing to happen, the grass fire was thought to have been completely contained the prior day, and the emergency services folks did everything they could right up to when the fire department literally ran out of water having to retreat to save themselves. In fact, they paused the interview because the pastor's niece was helping to coordinate some gasoline deliveries to Lahina, because most of the gas stations are gone or had no power, and some residents couldn't leave the town for supplies.
I've seen similar attitudes of island natives in Japan. Volcano earthquakes hit and knock down ancient temples and homes, covering the towns in volcanic ash. Everyone just takes a moment, comes up with a plan, and then gets to work rebuilding.
Most of the whining and finger-pointing comes from the tourists or part-time residents who are outraged that their vacation was ruined, their favorite shops and restaurants were destroyed, and are just looking to place blame.
And then layer on the political opportunism. We can name which networks and radio hosts in particular who couldn’t find Lahaina on a map before suddenly are outraged…outraged I say…about the federal response. And they’ll search high and low for anyone to exploit to score those cheap political points.
You people made very good points, but I still feel that old fashion radio has a place - but too some broadcasters or people today that maybe are doing say consulting work in the industry, maybe to convince stations (if the broadcaster hasn't decided on its own) to abandon over the air & just do streaming are putting these stations in a bad place - streaming only, that is no good.
This tragic fire on Maui proved that cell service and a station streaming would not be able to give info, but that broadcast signal could if its facilities are intack or a station just outside the impacted area could.
And yes in the Maui case you are running from a fire, true, but once you feel somewhat safe you want to hear info about what is going on, we all do.
I feel radio triumphs over streaming, again my opinion.
A radio in a cell phone would help people, when they need info, when cell service goes away. Then a person would be carrying that cell phone with a built-in radio.
And yes, the built-in radio can be designed to "wake you up" in an emergency like the cell phone does.
Just remember don't count on that phone when the crap hits the fan, it happened to me in the pass, Dave said his Internet & phone went out with some kind of large event taking place because of overloaded phone circuits, where he lives back, I think in the mid 2000's, and in 2023 the people on Maui lost cell service because of this sad event.
That is the phone system., it is there when you need it but when the crap hits the fan . . . it is gone, often, when you really need it.
With cell phones this issue has been brought up front.
Al
This tragic fire on Maui proved that cell service and a station streaming would not be able to give info, but that broadcast signal could if its facilities are intack or a station just outside the impacted area could.
And yes in the Maui case you are running from a fire, true, but once you feel somewhat safe you want to hear info about what is going on, we all do.
I feel radio triumphs over streaming, again my opinion.
A radio in a cell phone would help people, when they need info, when cell service goes away. Then a person would be carrying that cell phone with a built-in radio.
And yes, the built-in radio can be designed to "wake you up" in an emergency like the cell phone does.
Just remember don't count on that phone when the crap hits the fan, it happened to me in the pass, Dave said his Internet & phone went out with some kind of large event taking place because of overloaded phone circuits, where he lives back, I think in the mid 2000's, and in 2023 the people on Maui lost cell service because of this sad event.
That is the phone system., it is there when you need it but when the crap hits the fan . . . it is gone, often, when you really need it.
With cell phones this issue has been brought up front.
Al
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It's been said many time that, now, a majority of cell phones can't have a radio in them as they don't have a headphone jack; the wire connecting the headphone ear buds is the FM antenna. No wired headphones, no FM radio.
Putting an FM antenna that will pick up anything but "the transmitter next door" is just not going to happen due to little inconveniences like the laws of physics.
Except for maybe AM stations who will never have the opportunity to move to FM, I've not heard of anyone considering abandoning radio altogether. But radio will never be some panacea that you claim it can be. Especially small town stations as in Maui, simply can't afford to have live people around 24/7 just in case something might happen. Even then, civil authorities need to feed the station accurate and timely information. Anything else and the station is not helping the situation.
It's not like the station ownership is being greedy or cheap, it's that literally, they can't afford that sort of commitment over time.
I doubt anyone in this small island coastal community was looking to streaming information. If anything, it's calling emergency services about help, or where to go from where they live. Apparently once you get over the hills out of town, cell phone coverage is working.
There's been a lot of information from people who were there and recorded it on their smartphones. Once emergency services had lost control over the fires in the town, there wasn't time or interest in getting news to the mainland. That was likely the least of their concerns.
There have been attempts to put FM radio in cell phones, but the reception is too unreliable due to lack of an antenna. Even if everyone had one in this instance, it wouldn't have done them any good, considering the radio station was in normal programming, and emergency services weren't around to provide timely information worth broadcasting.
In this case cell/wireless or landlines wouldn't have mattered. All utility and communications services were burned to a crisp. It was everyone for themselves.
There is a rather meaningful segment of the population who isn’t going to be turning on the radio—or hell, even have one beyond their car. You might as well try sky writing.
The fire was at points advancing a mile a minute. There was, sadly, little anyone could have done to meaningfully altered the outcome. Information was going to be outdated before it was read.
Radio is not somehow going to change that.
The fire was at points advancing a mile a minute. There was, sadly, little anyone could have done to meaningfully altered the outcome. Information was going to be outdated before it was read.
Radio is not somehow going to change that.
Rapidly-growing wildfire in Lane County up to 2,720 acres, Level 3 (Go Now) evacuations ordered
The Lookout Fire is burning in the Willamette National Forest. Gov. Kotek has invoked an Emergency Conflagration Act to make more firefighting resources available.
www.ktvb.com
Highway Fire sees small overnight growth, containment remains at 5%
Update 7 a.m., Thursday: The fire has grown to 30.9 acres and containment has remained at 5%. There are currently over 300 fire staff working the fire with more on the way Thursday, according to US…
fox40.com
Here are 5 things you can do to be ready for a wildfire
Steve Walsh with the American Red Cross California Gold Country Region gave us five tips that could help keep your family safe if you need to evacuate.
www.kcra.com
Multiple fires prompt evacuations in Siskiyou County
(FOX40.COM) — A number of lightning fires in Siskiyou County have led officials to issue evacuations for some communities. The most recent update from the U.S. Forest Service on Wednesday morning e…
fox40.com
And now we have wildfires from other parts of the country. Lets see how other emergency services respond and fare from their local fires. Note lets hope we don't get a repeat of what happen in Maui but these are in places where wildfires are expected every year.
My only concern is that California (north or south) never again sees anything like what happened in Paradise (Maui recently surpassed that one in terms of deadliness, which is astonishingly bad).
On a different note, I have a strange and darkly humorous Paradise anecdote to share:
Back in 2003 or so when I was 14, my mother and I visited Paradise for the first – and, as it happens, only – time to see about possibly buying a house there because we were moving and we weren't yet sure where to go (we eventually settled on Lake County and moved there the following year). Right from the first moment we drove in, three things stood out to us as profoundly strange and creepy:
Fast forward to 2018 and the entire place is, in effect, cremated, including, ironically, the crematoriums. Talk about karma!
c
On a different note, I have a strange and darkly humorous Paradise anecdote to share:
Back in 2003 or so when I was 14, my mother and I visited Paradise for the first – and, as it happens, only – time to see about possibly buying a house there because we were moving and we weren't yet sure where to go (we eventually settled on Lake County and moved there the following year). Right from the first moment we drove in, three things stood out to us as profoundly strange and creepy:
- The real estate agent showing us houses was oddly quiet – almost zombie-like, as I recall – and had a spotless car, save for a conspicuously placed Bible on the back seat. I vaguely recall that some of the few other people we saw in the community similarly exhibited this strange, zombie-like behavior.
- Every house and place of business that we saw was painted the same shade of grey or brown.
- At least one entire block of the main street downtown was lined corner to corner with mortuaries and crematoriums, and there was this highly conspicuous scent of bread being baked in their vicinity (I subsequently learned that traditionally, bread is baked to mask the scent of the cremation process).
Fast forward to 2018 and the entire place is, in effect, cremated, including, ironically, the crematoriums. Talk about karma!
c
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Why Hawaii’s hard fire season isn’t over
Welcome to The Hill’s Sustainability newsletter{beacon} Sustainability Sustainability The Big Story Why Hawaii’s hard fire season isn’t over Firefighters are working to fully co…
thehill.com
Here is more on Hawaii fires.
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