HHH said:
Well put ;D
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Well put ;D
As I said before, believe show shtick at your own peril.
I agree that Maxwell is horribly misfit at 98.5, but last I heard, 92.3 was doing very well as a jockless alt-rocker. They aren't moving him over there (in Rover's exact former location!). And they aren't blowing up classic rock on 98.5, so you're stuck fitting wrong shaped peg into wrong shaped hole.
I agree that Maxwell is horribly misfit at 98.5, but last I heard, 92.3 was doing very well as a jockless alt-rocker. They aren't moving him over there (in Rover's exact former location!). And they aren't blowing up classic rock on 98.5, so you're stuck fitting wrong shaped peg into wrong shaped hole.
Wne you think about it, Howard Stern was a mismatch with WNCX's classic rock format as well. Problem is, Maxwell is no Howard Stern.
WNCX went with Stern basically because none of their local shows really worked out well at all (in one instance, "Those Guys in The Morning" was a classic flame-out). It was all about timing: The Morning Zoo became stale at that point, with Lanigan, Webster and Malone starting to breath down MMS' neck. So Norman Wain & Co. looked at Stern and said, "why not?"
They sold Stern's debut as being part of a lineup with strong personalities - Ruby Cheeks, Micheal Stanley and Bill Louis. And Stern's show was enough to have a massive fan base to outweigh the fact his show was always incompatible with the classic rock format.
They sold Stern's debut as being part of a lineup with strong personalities - Ruby Cheeks, Micheal Stanley and Bill Louis. And Stern's show was enough to have a massive fan base to outweigh the fact his show was always incompatible with the classic rock format.
Nathan Obral said:
Here's a little history. Don Buchwald ( Stern's superagent) approached Milton Maltz first. Malrite had financial deals in place that came due at the end of 1993. When Buchwald pitched Stern, Malrite was already planning to unload the radio division. Milt was not going to add a million dollars to the expense side, and move Jeff and Flash to afternoon as Jeff so readily offered Milt. Jeff knew it was over if Stern came on against him. Stern was on in 4 or 5 major markets wiping out long running established rock radio morning shows.
Buchwald then went to WNCX. Norman Wain knew "dropping the atomic bomb" with Howard Stern for a million dollars, would finally provide him what he needed to beat his old nemisis. The beauty of all this, was WMMS spent millions over the years marketing and promoting their morning show product. WNCX never spent a nickel promoting Stern. No billboards, no TV campaign, nothing. Powerful juju at the time. In less than a year Stern had the 12 share in mornings and Jeff and Flash were listening to Stern when they drove home. Stern wiping out that WMMS morning show negatively impacted the sale price of WMMS. No doubt in my mind.
I disagree that Stern was not a " match " for the classic rock audience. At the time, the cume duplication between WMMS and WNCX was at about 50%, meaning them same bodies were listening to both stations. Stern built his audience almost entirely at the expense of WMMS.
The Lanigan listeners were in the 35+ range. The Stern act was designed to appeal to young rockers, not the older adults that made up Lanigans audience.
The rock radio (WMMS/WNCX) audince base was in the 25-35 demo, leaning younger.
If this Maxwell guy had unique talent, it would not matter where the demo appeal is. The talent/content would draw the listeners. Like I said, I don't see it. I believe CBS will be having more " what are we doing to do with mornings on WNCX " meetings soon.
Laningan is the jewel of the Cleveland Morning Radio Crown. When he leaves, the syndicated shows will benefit. The owners investment in talent is continuing its downward spiral.
Stern had a much broader appeal...he was not nearly as incompatible with the classic rock format as a show "like that" would ordinarily be.
Maxwell's previous stint concentrated on attracting the lower-end male demos that pretty much don't exist at a station with "jurassic rock" in its playlist.
Maxwell's previous stint concentrated on attracting the lower-end male demos that pretty much don't exist at a station with "jurassic rock" in its playlist.
OhioMediaWatch said:
True. Maybe CBS wants those younger demos to whom he alledgely appeals ? What's the median age of WNCX these days, 60? Just like Randy Michaels "demo-downed" WTAM ( other CC 50K news talkers as well ), could this Maxwell move be a similar strategy? How else is a " jurassic rock " msuic based station supposed to bring youth to the station? That could be the thinking.
Capulet said:
It could be, but...if Maxwell is successful in bringing the younger demo audience to a station they couldn't find with a road map and a guide, those younger listeners will go fleeing after the morning show due to the music mix and older slant.
Stern was talented enough to bring in a broader audience, some of whom would stay around after 11 AM...Maxwell isn't nearly as broad in appeal.
Oh, CBS definitely has a demo problem with WNCX, and it'll only get worse as its core audience ages out of desirable demos. And if you go too young and add "hot talk", you are square in WMMS' sights, and have to battle them even more directly - which Maxwell is doing now against Rover, and not having a great time of doing.
Could he improve and build a beachhead? Sure, but the station's overall audience and older skewing image works against him.
Capulet said:Maxwell on WNCX ( as discussed above ) is like getting the kids to listen to their dad's station!
They make him play a 30 year old classic rock song every few mintes! :
Who's idea was that?
When they first announced Maxwell's hiring, he made a big deal about being able to play the music. I think he even mentioned Led Zeppelin!
Actually, the perfect morning show for WNCX would be "Bob and Tom".
B&T are on classic rock stations all over the country.
Yes, B&T is syndicated by Premiere, but that shouldn't be a problem.
CBS sister station WDOK has been running the Premeire syndicated "Delilah" love song dedication/schmaltz-fest for over a decade now.
B&T are on classic rock stations all over the country.
Yes, B&T is syndicated by Premiere, but that shouldn't be a problem.
CBS sister station WDOK has been running the Premeire syndicated "Delilah" love song dedication/schmaltz-fest for over a decade now.
vjm said:
Not a fan of that act. Seems great for markets sized 200 and smaller. ;D
Really don't know what else is out there for syndication, nor do I know what CBS' stance is on using syndication. But I don't hear anything around here that is a viable solution to their morning show woes.
vjm said:
B&T have never clicked in this market at all.
If you count the one year B&T aired in Akron on WONE/97.5 (1997 or so), the show has been tried three times in this market: WWWE/1100 aired it tape-delayed in evenings back in late 1995/early 2006, and WMMS aired it from 2006-2008 - with all three attempts being failures. (Triv usually did and occasionally STILL airs B&T bits from that period on his show, which preceded the late-night 1100 airing.) The line of Tom Griswold being from Cleveland just falls on deaf ears... it means nothing.
BTW, WDOK picked up Delilah in 1999, years before Premiere acquired the show.
Yeah, I think the Bob & Tom Experiment in Cleveland has little chance of being reignited on WNCX. And I would hear the laughter from Oak Tree if WNCX basically "threw in the towel" by putting that show in competition with Rover.
B&T have had success in much smaller markets...and of course, they've been on WRQK/106.9 for years. But I don't see the pieces falling into place for a return to Cleveland, on WNCX or any other station.
B&T have had success in much smaller markets...and of course, they've been on WRQK/106.9 for years. But I don't see the pieces falling into place for a return to Cleveland, on WNCX or any other station.
The January PPM numbers arrived today.
The big story is going to be The Lake. But look at the 3 rockers.
WNCX rises 4.1 to 4.7, this is their first climb since they took the hit from a 6.4 in October.
WMMS flat at 3.8, they had a recent high of 5.7 in October.
WKRK rises 3.1 to 4.2, which I believe is the highest rating they have ever reached as "Radio 923".
Then there's the cume.
WNCX went 413,200 to 390,600. They had a recent high of 490,800
WMMS went 413,300 to 297,600. Their recent high was 534,500 in October. That's a monster of a drop!
People aren't sampling WMMS right now. Those that are there are listening longer. NCX has lost sampling but not nearly as much as MMS.
Bottom line is Maxwell's move to NCX has shaken up the rock stations in the market. I agree with those who say CBS won't be making a change just yet. The shake up's effects aren't fully realized, as evidenced by the huge drop from MMS.
This is of course 6+ and all dayparts. Rover always out performed the rest of the day. It would be interesting to see some breakdowns.
The big story is going to be The Lake. But look at the 3 rockers.
WNCX rises 4.1 to 4.7, this is their first climb since they took the hit from a 6.4 in October.
WMMS flat at 3.8, they had a recent high of 5.7 in October.
WKRK rises 3.1 to 4.2, which I believe is the highest rating they have ever reached as "Radio 923".
Then there's the cume.
WNCX went 413,200 to 390,600. They had a recent high of 490,800
WMMS went 413,300 to 297,600. Their recent high was 534,500 in October. That's a monster of a drop!
People aren't sampling WMMS right now. Those that are there are listening longer. NCX has lost sampling but not nearly as much as MMS.
Bottom line is Maxwell's move to NCX has shaken up the rock stations in the market. I agree with those who say CBS won't be making a change just yet. The shake up's effects aren't fully realized, as evidenced by the huge drop from MMS.
This is of course 6+ and all dayparts. Rover always out performed the rest of the day. It would be interesting to see some breakdowns.
re; Bob and Tom
They've been going gangbusters on CC rocker WIOT/Toledo since being syndicated. WIOT owns the male demos, especially in mornings. Cumulus' WXKR an also ran. When I was in Raleigh we put them on WRDU (now defunct but not due to B&T). WRDU was a classic rock but flipped to a mainstream. We added B&T due to their huge quarterly gain in Nashville, a similar market to Raleigh. B&T exploded on WRDU at about the 15month mark (just as then PD Bob Edwards, now with KQRC, said they would). Edwards promoted the crap out of B&T with TV. Billboards aren't permitted in the Raleigh metro due to being unsightly (I agree). Edwards also promoted B&T vertically and horizontally ad nauseum on the station. First thing out of the jocks' mouth, Top of hour ID/promo,...etc etc.
I think, at this point... MXL hasn;'t been on long enough to get established. PPM be damned. A new show (or format) takes at least 18-24 months, with proper marketing.
If MXL were to be discontinued... if WNCX's case B&T would not be a bad move. In Raleigh our cost was approx $85k to carry them. That was 2001-06. From a cost standpoint B&T are very affordable and would certainly do better than MXL is currently doing.
As rubberchicken points out... 6+ anyway..... WNCX isn't all that bad off. I see the "Lake Effect" has snowed some stations. I like The Lake. Targeted right at me (43).
They've been going gangbusters on CC rocker WIOT/Toledo since being syndicated. WIOT owns the male demos, especially in mornings. Cumulus' WXKR an also ran. When I was in Raleigh we put them on WRDU (now defunct but not due to B&T). WRDU was a classic rock but flipped to a mainstream. We added B&T due to their huge quarterly gain in Nashville, a similar market to Raleigh. B&T exploded on WRDU at about the 15month mark (just as then PD Bob Edwards, now with KQRC, said they would). Edwards promoted the crap out of B&T with TV. Billboards aren't permitted in the Raleigh metro due to being unsightly (I agree). Edwards also promoted B&T vertically and horizontally ad nauseum on the station. First thing out of the jocks' mouth, Top of hour ID/promo,...etc etc.
I think, at this point... MXL hasn;'t been on long enough to get established. PPM be damned. A new show (or format) takes at least 18-24 months, with proper marketing.
If MXL were to be discontinued... if WNCX's case B&T would not be a bad move. In Raleigh our cost was approx $85k to carry them. That was 2001-06. From a cost standpoint B&T are very affordable and would certainly do better than MXL is currently doing.
As rubberchicken points out... 6+ anyway..... WNCX isn't all that bad off. I see the "Lake Effect" has snowed some stations. I like The Lake. Targeted right at me (43).
IMHO that was mainly because WMMS had the Browns in October. Browns games themselves will cume about 500,000 listeners between the two stations.rubberchicken said:
SonoSational18 said:
Pro sports broadcasts generally bring new and large cume to radio stations. It is powerful for the flagship, when the flagship is the exclusive carrier in the market. Right now I believe the Browns games are on WTAM and WMMS and that waters down the impact of the cume.
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