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Memorable format changes

HHH said:
Go read Hit Men. Go read Appetite for Self Destruction. Labels have been paying for airplay since radio started playing records.

Of course there have always been deejays who took payola and record and indie guys who shelled it out. But it was the exception not the rule, at least in the FM era post late 60s. If you think it was the rule at WMMS, then why are not all of the deejays from the famous period living in Hawaii in big houses?

Because that was not the 1950s. :D :D :D :D

The DJs did not determine the playlist in the 80s. The DJs did not report the adds to R&R, the DJs did not report rotations. The DJs were not contacted by the promoters. The program directors and to a lesser extent the music directors did those things in those days. The program directors controlled the playlist. And in those days (before electronic monitoring) records got reported as being on the playlist but never got airplay. They were called "paper adds." And sometimes if a big station reported a "paper add" the labels didn't care! People who programmed in Reading PA could not hear what was being played in Chicago or LA. They did read the trades! Thats why a CHR P1 reporter got LOTS of attention.

In the 50s the promoters paid the disc jockeys. In the 80s and 90s they paid the stations PDs. In the new century they pay the corporations.

That's why the DJS from then don't live in Hawaii! :D
 
[/quote]
That's why the DJS from then don't live in Hawaii! :D
[/quote]


There are a lot of PDs that are not living in Hawaii, either. ;) If every FM rock PD was on the take in the 70s and 80s (as you seem to suggest) I would be seeing a lot more folks from that era no longer working for a living.
 
Pay for play is standard business. Was then, is now. As I said now the indie money goes to the corporate office and the bottom line now. ;)

Don't confuse rock promotion with CHR promotion. Rock indies got paid a flat fee for six weeks to get album play. They passed minimal amounts of that money to stations.
Thats why FM rock programmers of the 70s and 80s aren't living in Hawaii! The money was just not there in the amounts it was chanelled into CHR promotion.

In CHR promotion the indies gets paid per song added. No play, no pay. But the money was big. Read Hit Men and Appetite for Self Destruction. Hit Men explains the old way of CHR promotion ( 80s and 90s ). Appetite for Self Destruction tells how it worked in the 2000s and how labels could not adapot to the internet and file sharing and so forth. Both books cover pay for play pretty well.

To say PDs in FM Rock or CHR never had monies channeled them through indies is pure fallacy. Some PDs were called " record whores " and were careless in their dealings.

In the old days, owners looked the other way when PDs took the indie money and other goodies ( everything from clothes to trips to furniture ). Some of the PDs channeled the indie moeny into prizes and such. Some bought station T-shirts, bumperstickers, and things like that.

The labels spent millions on indie promotion. It's documented and to most seasoned vets common knowledge. Like I said, payola ( record company money directly to radio ) is illegal. Independent promotion ( record company money to indie to radio stations ) is legal. It's how business is done. Some legislators try to change this sytem periodically but are unsuccessful.

In the old days, the owners looked the other way. The indie money to the PDs kept their PDs happy and the owners didn't have to pay huge salaries. Ah the good old days. 8)

There were lots of PDs working in small markets earning 20K a year and driving Corvettes.

Now the indie money goes to the owners, and the small market PD is earning 20K to run 10 stations and play what the corprate programmer tells him to play. The owner is driving the Corvette now. :D :D :D

Nothing new about any of this.

What is new is how music is sold ( on computer files ) instead of on discs at record stores. For the most part radio is still the primary advertising tool ( ie airplay ) for record companies.
 
Capulet:

Yes, pay for play exists in some cases at the corporate level today no question.

Yes, there were probably some PDs back in the 70s and 80s who took gratuity of some sort to add records to a playlist in a trade paper, but (in general) never actually played them on air, so your remark about all of this activity impacting the programming on air--the music that the audience actually heard--is disconnected. If you don't actually play a song you report, how is the audience subject to the music? Most smart PDs were not going to put on crap and tank their own ratings.

But here is the remark that set me off. You wrote: "Who needs some payola taking disc jockey to tell you what is " hot" and what you should listen to?"

Which flies in the face of all of your expanded explanation about and where the gratuity (if any) ends up.

I am sick and tired of people like you suggesting that deejays back then, especially at more liberal album stations where they could suggest a record be added (deejays at the classic WMMS advocated records all the time to the PD/MD for playlist add consideration, even after the reporting status was changed to "CHR") were on the take and music meant nothing. Read what you wrote: Who needs some payola taking disc jockey to tell you what is " hot" and what you should listen to? I am sure that a lot of old timers read this board and might be happy to personally explain to you how wrong you are with an ignorant and hurtful statement like that. Who needs some payola taking disc jockey to tell you what is " hot" and what you should listen to? You owe these people an apology. Big time.
 
Regarding WCLV's attitude towards Channel 61's calls - WCLQ - we weren't too concerned because most people knew TV stations by their channel numbers, which continues today even with all stations no longer on their original channels. WEWS is still promoted as Channel 5; WKYC is still promoted as Channel 3. Radio, however, is a different situation. With digital tuning, most listeners know stations by frequency, except for the logo stations such as The Fish or KISS. Do any of their listeners know what those call letters are?

Robert Conrad
WCLV 104.9
 
I don't think most listeners care about the calls. They identify them at the top of the hour, but few really care. There are exceptions like WGAR, WMMS, WMJI, WDOK, WNCX and WKDD. Oh, and WCLV too. :)

There's a sense of heritage to them that those calls are recalled by memory. Not that WFHM and WAKS are forgettable, but their on-air names are emphasized more than the calls.

Mr. Conrad, happy anniversary to WCLV. I wish the station continued success. I also hope Ideastream takes good care of the operation.
 
VODood said:
Some WMMS "Fun Lovin'" and "Heavy Music" jingles.... and then morning man Lou "King" Kirby... who I had the pleasure to meet in '97 at the last WMJI/WIXY Reunion Weekend.

http://www.mediafire.com/?r0zmm12imn4

http://www.mediafire.com/?2urz2dimmzg

http://www.mediafire.com/?gowgoim4ltu

http://www.mediafire.com/?wgyeyzyn4al

http://www.mediafire.com/?tnn2mykw3h4

http://www.mediafire.com/?zn1dx4oziwj

...which were resurrected in the early 80's when Len Boom Boom Goldberg did his Sunday Morning Oldies Show (Solid-Goldbergers).

That show was pretty much an FM presentationsof most of the music heard on then-sister station WHK (14-K).
 
rconrad said:
Regarding the WDGO Scotty dog logo, I have an ad in my files that not only has the dog, but the transposed call letters to WDOG. Some even called the station WGOD. (Salem would love that call.) It stood for Douglas G. Oviatt, who built the station. Incidentally, our original desire was WCLE (air port code for Cleveland Hopkins.) But that call was in Cleveland, Tennessee. Then we looked at WCLD, but that was in Cleveland, Mississippi. Next down the line was WCLV.

Robert Conrad
WCLV

Actually, I think WCLV has a better ring to it than WCLD. Then again WCLD could have been "The Cloud", LOL, but that would sound too gloomy, and I don't remember them using catchy names to fit call letters back then like they do now. But then SF had KFOG, but they're "famous" for their fog, while Cleveland is infamous for it's cloudy weather. Thanks for the info. Would like to see the Scottie logo if it can be posted. I imagine the RCA Victor logo with a Scottie, LOL.
 
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