Metromedia Television Network-

[highwayman128]

Here is a great what-if scenario

if the DuMont network met it's demise in 1955, then John Kluge would create Metromedia, but in 1965, what if Metromedia itself started a TV network!

Here is the station list if there would have been a Metromedia TV Network
New York- WNEW-TV 5
Los Angeles- KTTV-TV 11
Chicago- WFLD-TV 32
San Francsico- KNEW-TV 32
Boston- WTAO-TV 56
Dallas- KRLD-TV 33
Houston- KRIV-TV 26

Is that a good what-if idea?

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

I'm sure John Kluge had thought at one time about launching a full-blown commercial TV network using his Metromedia company's stations as the foundation (and O&O's) of such a network.

However, until the mid-1980's, there weren't enough TV stations in markets outside of the top 50 (and there were even some top-50 markets with only three commercial TV stations) for a fourth commercial network to be economically viable.

Had there been four commercial TV stations in all or practically all of the top-100 TV markets as far back as the mid 1960's (and four commercial TV stations in some markets below the top 100 back then), I think Kluge would indeed have launched a Metromedia Network.

Even if Rupert Murdoch had bought most of the Metromedia stations in the late 1970's/early 1980's, I don't think Fox would have launched it's network much sooner than it actually did because again, there weren't enough available affiliate stations out there to make such a network successful until the mid 1980's.

 

[rugrats1]

>
> if the DuMont network met it's demise in 1955, then John
> Kluge would create Metromedia, but in 1965, what if
> Metromedia itself started a TV network!
>
> Here is the station list if there would have been a
> Metromedia TV Network
> Chicago- WFLD-TV 32

Wouldn't sign on until 1966.

> San Francsico- KNEW-TV 32

I don't think they signed on until 1968, at least. Even then, they didn't last long.

> Boston- WTAO-TV 56

I think was already WKBG at the time (or was about to be).

> Dallas- KRLD-TV 33

33 wasn't on the air yet. Also, KRLD was still on ch.4, the present-day KDFW (owned, ironically, by Fox).

> Houston- KRIV-TV 26

Wouldn't sign on until 1971 -- as KVRL.

 

[KMRichards]

> >
> > if the DuMont network met it's demise in 1955, then John
> > Kluge would create Metromedia, but in 1965, what if
> > Metromedia itself started a TV network!
> >
> > Here is the station list if there would have been a
> > Metromedia TV Network
> > Chicago- WFLD-TV 32
>
> Wouldn't sign on until 1966.
>
> > San Francsico- KNEW-TV 32
>
> I don't think they signed on until 1968, at least. Even
> then, they didn't last long.
>
> > Boston- WTAO-TV 56
>
> I think was already WKBG at the time (or was about to be).
>
> > Dallas- KRLD-TV 33
>
> 33 wasn't on the air yet. Also, KRLD was still on ch.4, the
> present-day KDFW (owned, ironically, by Fox).
>
> > Houston- KRIV-TV 26
>
> Wouldn't sign on until 1971 -- as KVRL.

In other words, in 1965, the "network" would have had two whole stations ... New York (WNEW/5) and Los Angeles (KTTV/11).

So, not as great an idea as you thought, once history corrected you.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[bayusm1]

> > >
> > > if the DuMont network met it's demise in 1955, then John
>
> > > Kluge would create Metromedia, but in 1965, what if
> > > Metromedia itself started a TV network!
> > >
> > > Here is the station list if there would have been a
> > > Metromedia TV Network
> > > Chicago- WFLD-TV 32
> >
> > Wouldn't sign on until 1966.
> >
> > > San Francsico- KNEW-TV 32
> >
> > I don't think they signed on until 1968, at least. Even
> > then, they didn't last long.
> >
> > > Boston- WTAO-TV 56
> >
> > I think was already WKBG at the time (or was about to be).
>
> >
> > > Dallas- KRLD-TV 33
> >
> > 33 wasn't on the air yet. Also, KRLD was still on ch.4,
> the
> > present-day KDFW (owned, ironically, by Fox).
> >
> > > Houston- KRIV-TV 26
> >
> > Wouldn't sign on until 1971 -- as KVRL.
>
> In other words, in 1965, the "network" would have had two
> whole stations ... New York (WNEW/5) and Los Angeles
> (KTTV/11).
>
> So, not as great an idea as you thought, once history
> corrected you.
>
What about Washington D.C.

 

[KML0224]

Wasn't channel 11 of Minneapolis a part of something like that before becoming a "big 3" network affiliate? (Today they are KARE-TV channel 11, an NBC affiliate.)

 

[KMRichards]

> What about Washington D.C.

Did DuMont still own WTTG at the time of the network's demise? I can't remember.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[KeithE]

> Here is a great what-if scenario
>
> if the DuMont network met it's demise in 1955, then John
> Kluge would create Metromedia, but in 1965, what if
> Metromedia itself started a TV network!
>
> Here is the station list if there would have been a
> Metromedia TV Network
> New York- WNEW-TV 5
> Los Angeles- KTTV-TV 11
> Chicago- WFLD-TV 32
> San Francsico- KNEW-TV 32
> Boston- WTAO-TV 56
> Dallas- KRLD-TV 33
> Houston- KRIV-TV 26
>
> Is that a good what-if idea?

Couldn't have happened in 1965.

In 1965, Metromedia only owned WNEW New York, WTTG Washington, and KTTV Los Angeles. KNEW San Francisco came and went later.

WFLD Chicago signed on in 1966 and wasn't purchased by Metromedia until 1984. It was a Field Communications/Kaiser Broadcasting station until then.

WTAO had been off the air since 1956. In 1962, Channel 56 in Boston was used for a 6-month FCC test using the call letters WXHR-TV. When they returned to the air fulltime as WKBG in 1966, it was under Kaiser ownership.

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.bostonradio.org/stations/73238.html>Link: BostonRadio.org</a>

Edit: The WXHR tests were in 1962, not 1965. Kaiser bought the station (off the air at the time) in 1965.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Keith Elster on 09/16/05 02:49 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[Markd]

> WFLD Chicago signed on in 1966 and wasn't purchased by
> Metromedia until 1984. It was a Field Communications/Kaiser
> Broadcasting station until then.

Actually it was sold to Metromedia in the spring of 1983.

 

[Markd]

> Wasn't channel 11 of Minneapolis a part of something like
> that before becoming a "big 3" network affiliate? (Today
> they are KARE-TV channel 11, an NBC affiliate.)

yes until 1979 Channel 11 in Minneapolis was an inde3pendent station owned by Metromedia. When Channel 5 KSTP evicted NBC for ABC, NBC went to Metromedia's Channel 11 rather than KMSP 9. Channel 9 became the independent and bought some of 11's programming upon losing ABC. Channel 11 Minneapolis was sold in 1981 to Gannett and renamed WUSA in 1982 and KARE in 1986 (The years may be off)

 

[Markd]

> > What about Washington D.C.
>
> Did DuMont still own WTTG at the time of the network's
> demise? I can't remember.
>
I believe 5 WTTG Washington, 11 KTTV Los ANgeles, and 5 WNEW TV New York all went to Metromedia at the same time...It seems that way at least. The Broadcasting & Cable Yearbook has nothing on when the sales of these 3 stations from Dumont to Metromedia occurred...so it seems at was a deal involving all 3 stations. The only transaction for these stations listed there is their sale to Fox in 1986.

 

[KeithE]

> > > What about Washington D.C.
> >
> > Did DuMont still own WTTG at the time of the network's
> > demise? I can't remember.
> >
> I believe 5 WTTG Washington, 11 KTTV Los ANgeles, and 5
> WNEW TV New York all went to Metromedia at the same
> time...It seems that way at least. The Broadcasting & Cable
> Yearbook has nothing on when the sales of these 3 stations
> from Dumont to Metromedia occurred...so it seems at was a
> deal involving all 3 stations. The only transaction for
> these stations listed there is their sale to Fox in 1986.


WNEW (WABD) New York and WTTG Washington were the original Dumont stations along with WDTV (KDKA-TV) Pittsburgh. Dumont never owned KTTV.

KTTV originally was jointly owned by the LA Times and CBS, with CBS selling their interest in 1951 to buy KTSL Ch. 2, which had been the Dumont affiliate in LA. Metromedia purchased KTTV from the LA Times in 1963.

According to <a target="_blank" href=http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Metromedia&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Metromedia>Answers.com</a>, these stations were owned by Metromedia during its 1956-86 existence:

New York: WABD/WNEW (WNYW) Ch. 5 (1956-86, from Dumont)
Washington: WTTG Ch. 5 (1956-86, from Dumont)
Los Angeles: KTTV Ch. 11 (1963-86, from LA Times)
Chicago: WFLD Ch. 32 (1983-86, from Field Communications)
Boston: WCVB Ch. 5 (1981-85, from Boston Broadcasters, to Hearst-Argyle)
Dallas: KDAF Ch. 33 (1983-86, from unknown, to Tribune)
Houston: KRIV Ch. 26 (1980-86, from unknown)
Minneapolis: WTCN (WUSA/KARE) Ch. 11 (1971-83, from ChrisCraft, to Gannett)
Kansas City: KMBC Ch. 9 (from unknown, to Hearst-Argyle)

Dates and ownership info is from each station's page on that site.

Of these stations only the ones in NY, Chicago, LA, Washington, & Houston are Fox O&Os today.

 

[rugrats1]

>
> According to Answers.com, these stations were owned by
> Metromedia during its 1956-86 existence:
>
> New York: WABD/WNEW (WNYW) Ch. 5 (1956-86, from Dumont)
> Washington: WTTG Ch. 5 (1956-86, from Dumont)
> Los Angeles: KTTV Ch. 11 (1963-86, from LA Times)
> Chicago: WFLD Ch. 32 (1983-86, from Field Communications)
> Boston: WCVB Ch. 5 (1981-85, from Boston Broadcasters, to
> Hearst-Argyle)
> Dallas: KDAF Ch. 33 (1983-86, from unknown, to Tribune)
> Houston: KRIV Ch. 26 (1980-86, from unknown)
> Minneapolis: WTCN (WUSA/KARE) Ch. 11 (1971-83, from
> ChrisCraft, to Gannett)
> Kansas City: KMBC Ch. 9 (from unknown, to Hearst-Argyle)
>
We shouldn't forget about KNEW ch.32 in San Francisco, which was the shortest-lived Metromedia station, and the only one to go dark under Metromedia's watch. In the early-1970s (1971, I think), Metromedia donated the license and equipment to KQED, which they used to start up their second channel, KQEC. Money troubles caused KQEC to go dark in 1972, but it returned in 1977. They later sold it to another pubcaster, the Minority Television Project, wo reflagged it as KMTP in 1991.

Also missing in this list is one station that is still on the air -- WXIX ch.19 in Cincinnati; Metromedia acquired the station sometime in the 1970s, and sold it to Malrite in the mid-1980s, shortly before the start of Fox. Raycom, which acquired Malrite a few years back, owns that station today.

 

[KMRichards]

The bottom line

Highwayman's concept is flawed, no matter what you do to correct his list, because there were still only three Metromedia stations in 1965.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[Markxxx]

> I'm sure John Kluge had thought at one time about launching
> a full-blown commercial TV network using his Metromedia
> company's stations as the foundation (and O&O's) of such a
> network.
>
> However, until the mid-1980's, there weren't enough TV
> stations in markets outside of the top 50 (and there were
> even some top-50 markets with only three commercial TV
> stations) for a fourth commercial network to be economically
> viable.
>
> Had there been four commercial TV stations in all or
> practically all of the top-100 TV markets as far back as the
> mid 1960's (and four commercial TV stations in some markets
> below the top 100 back then), I think Kluge would indeed
> have launched a Metromedia Network.
>
> Even if Rupert Murdoch had bought most of the Metromedia
> stations in the late 1970's/early 1980's, I don't think Fox
> would have launched it's network much sooner than it
> actually did because again, there weren't enough available
> affiliate stations out there to make such a network
> successful until the mid 1980's.

Part of it was UHF didn't come into force till the mid-70s. In Chicago WFLD Channel 32 didn't compete with WGN-TV Channel 9 till about 1976. It was only after WFLD got the rights to All In The Family, Happy Days, and M*A*S*H, that it's rerun schedule started to overpower WGN who had picked up Good Times and Maude in opposition.

So unless the stations were VHF or the entire market was UHF it would have been tough to compete<P ID="signature">______________
Once I figured out the meaning of life....Then I forgot to write it down.</P>

 

[Tom_Desmond]

Interesting discussion though...

> Highwayman's concept is flawed, no matter what you do to
> correct his list, because there were still only three
> Metromedia stations in 1965.

Definitely a flawed idea, and not just because Metromedia only had three stations at the time. Another problem is that the All-Channel Act had only kicked in the previous year, which means that any new network would have struggled to be seen in the many markets where it would have landed on UHF affiliates.

Nonetheless, I'm actually glad that Highwayman posted his original concept -- because the resulting posts regarding what Metromedia owned at various times have been interesting and informative reading.

 

[KingDaevid]

> So unless the stations were VHF or the entire market was UHF
> it would have been tough to compete

...or if a then-independent UHF had previously been a network affiliate for long enough for people to have been used to the idea of a UHF station being worth watching. Milwaukee was such a market; Channel 19/18 had been a CBS owned-and-operated station for several years, and affiliated with ABC and Du Mont before that for about a year and a half. In fact, as some of the retro schedules posted on this site show, WVTV/18 was picking up ABC and CBS programming passed on by WITI/6 and WISN-TV/12 in the mid-'60s, so potential affiliation in Milwaukee would have been a legitimate option...<P ID="signature">______________
King Daevid MacKenzie
WLSU Wisconsin Public Radio, La Crosse
heard weekly on http://whiterosesociety.org
"Kill Ugly Radio." FRANK ZAPPA</P>

 

[jjkktj]

> I'm sure John Kluge had thought at one time about launching
> a full-blown commercial TV network using his Metromedia
> company's stations as the foundation (and O&O's) of such a
> network.
>
> However, until the mid-1980's, there weren't enough TV
> stations in markets outside of the top 50 (and there were
> even some top-50 markets with only three commercial TV
> stations) for a fourth commercial network to be economically
> viable.
>

Good point. Syracuse, NY did not have it's fourth commercial station until the Spring of 1987 when Flatley put WSYT-68 on-the-air.

Any other markets like this?

 

[KMRichards]

> > So unless the stations were VHF or the entire market was
> UHF
> > it would have been tough to compete
>
> ...or if a then-independent UHF had previously been a
> network affiliate for long enough for people to have been
> used to the idea of a UHF station being worth watching.
> Milwaukee was such a market; Channel 19/18 had been a CBS
> owned-and-operated station for several years, and affiliated
> with ABC and Du Mont before that for about a year and a
> half. In fact, as some of the retro schedules posted on this
> site show, WVTV/18 was picking up ABC and CBS programming
> passed on by WITI/6 and WISN-TV/12 in the mid-'60s, so
> potential affiliation in Milwaukee would have been a
> legitimate option...

Unfortunately, there were not enough of those markets, added to the handful of markets with an available indie, for a fourth network to get enough national clearance for advertiser interest. (That was part of Overmyer/United's problem.)<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[KeithE]

> We shouldn't forget about KNEW ch.32 in San Francisco, which
> was the shortest-lived Metromedia station, and the only one
> to go dark under Metromedia's watch. In the early-1970s
> (1971, I think), Metromedia donated the license and
> equipment to KQED, which they used to start up their second
> channel, KQEC. Money troubles caused KQEC to go dark in
> 1972, but it returned in 1977. They later sold it to another
> pubcaster, the Minority Television Project, wo reflagged it
> as KMTP in 1991.

I should have read my own thread (and others) earlier. :-D They weren't in the Answers.com list probably because they didn't last long.

> Also missing in this list is one station that is still on
> the air -- WXIX ch.19 in Cincinnati; Metromedia acquired the
> station sometime in the 1970s, and sold it to Malrite in the
> mid-1980s, shortly before the start of Fox. Raycom, which
> acquired Malrite a few years back, owns that station today.

They weren't in the list either. I didn't know Metromedia ever owned WXIX. Thanks for the info.