Michael Omartian

[Stephen Young]

Wow.

Many of you are making a lot of accusations, assumptions and demeaning comments. I started listening to CCM in 1976 and I've been in Christian radio since 1984. I love the old songs and still listen to them from time to time. But unless you're someone who is actually responsible for running a station, keeping it on the air and making ends meet, I'd like to caution you about questioning someones motives.

I've yet to see a CCM "classics" show draw many listeners. There just aren't enough of "you" out there.

Personally, I love the old stuff but I also think we have some incredible music coming out today. I still receive daily comments from listeners - just like we did 20 years ago - about how a song helped change their life. That's what it's all about.

 

[Don62]

If the Hymns/Conservative music only stations can cater to the oldies and have success with it, why can't more of the CCMers do it?

My guess is the CCM programmers are younger folks who don't know or appreciate CCM oldies. With a Hymn station, my guess is the programmers are older who appreciate the hymns.

I'd agree completely that today's CCM stations have forgotten their roots making for a shallow format that sounds bland and boring, as a result, I rarely listen to CCM on the radio.

Well stated. That's exactly how I feel. CCM's managers have betrayed the public, going for the greed.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I've yet to see a CCM "classics" show draw many listeners. There just aren't enough of "you" out there.

What happened? Did all the believers from 1970-1990 get raptured? There were enough of us to support the CCM stations back then. Just as with secular oldies, there is a segment of the population, granted an older demo, that would be really blessed by CCM Gold.As R.D.P <>< said,

Wish more Christian Radio Stations would play the classic songs of the faith. There are times when I want to hear a classic and let it minister to me. Although the classics may sound dated, the message is still very relavant and continues to minister to people like me.

Yes, that music ministers to people like us, or is it ONLY about ministering to younger people and the older CCM listener is not worthy of being ministered to. You see, it works both ways. No one here is making accusations, but as a believer who would prefer to listen to Christ Centered radio and to only have the choice of listening to the bland/boring stuff that passes for most of today's CCM songs, many I'd classify as "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs, I'll tune out and not listen.

 

[G Thompson]

In a related note:

Our summer festival is happening here this August. We're featuring a "legends day" with live performances from Phil Keaggy, Randy Stonehill and Rez Band. Rez is reuniting for our show for only the second date since their breakup. I hope Glenn Kaiser does some of his solo worship stuff. Man, he is good.

-Gary Thompson
PD, WJQK
Grand Rapids

 

[joelr]

Gary --

That's an awesome lineup. I haven't heard Rez band in years! Wow!

 

[MikefromDelaware]

In a related note:

Our summer festival is happening here this August. We're featuring a "legends day" with live performances from Phil Keaggy, Randy Stonehill and Rez Band. Rez is reuniting for our show for only the second date since their breakup. I hope Glenn Kaiser does some of his solo worship stuff. Man, he is good.

-Gary Thompson
PD, WJQK
Grand Rapids

Gary, sounds like a great opportunity for your station to tape the concert and air it later, obviously getting all the proper permissions, etc. If you're a comm station, a good spot generator, as a non-comm, could be a great show for the begathon time, like NPR/PBS does. If your station does do that, let us all know ( I'm assuming that your station also is on the web) so that we can all check it out.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I saw Keaggy and Stonehill together about 10 years ago, and would love to see them together again, and a Rez reunion sounds awesome!

I wish there were more classic CCM on the radio, but to me it seems like it's between a rock and a hard place. Most traditional stations still reject it as much as current CCM, and it's unknown by people who only know CCM from the past 10 years or so, which is most of what is played by CCM radio now.

I think that trying to play traditional music on a CCM station would not be accepted by most CCM listeners, just like traditional music isn't accepted on traditional stations. I personally like contemporary arrangements of classic hymns, which should be a way to bridge the gap for CCM listeners, but it will still probably be rejected by a lot of traditional listeners.

There is one big difference though. I think a lot of CCM listeners respect traditional hymns, although they may prefer it in church, but not during the week on the radio. I know that's how I am. But a lot of traditional listeners have no respect for CCM of any type, classic or current, and it shows in stations like BBN, Rejoice, etc.

 

[anotherguyTN]

I think that trying to play traditional music on a CCM station would not be accepted by most CCM listeners, just like traditional music isn't accepted on traditional stations. I personally like contemporary arrangements of classic hymns, which should be a way to bridge the gap for CCM listeners, but it will still probably be rejected by a lot of traditional listeners.

OOPS! I meant to say "...just like CCM isn't accepted on traditional stations..." :

 

[Don62]

Wow.

Many of you are making a lot of accusations, assumptions and demeaning comments. I started listening to CCM in 1976 and I've been in Christian radio since 1984. I love the old songs and still listen to them from time to time. But unless you're someone who is actually responsible for running a station, keeping it on the air and making ends meet, I'd like to caution you about questioning someones motives.

I've yet to see a CCM "classics" show draw many listeners. There just aren't enough of "you" out there.

See. Its only about money, making "the numbers" just like in corporate radio (which is what it really is today in most places).

Don"t go questioning our motives. We"re not the ones in charge of the controls, and find little interesting to listen to on today"s bland and boring corporate radio.

 

[Retro]

Now isn't there a large enough audience for classic CCM in such areas as Nashville and Dallas/Ft. Worth? Or are these areas just full of transients instead?

 

[Stephen Young]

Don62-

I don't know what to tell you. Why would ANY radio station continue to broadcast something, if most listeners aren't interested in it? I said before that I personally love CCM form the 70's and 80's. Phil Keaggy's "Town to Town" is one of my favorites and I still listen to Keith Green and Whiteheart, but as someone mentioned earlier, most CCM listeners today simply don't know that music.

Now, I understand if you and others don't like today's CCM, but is it neccessary to say that today's programmers are "greedy" and "sell-outs". I do consider those accusations and I don't agree because it's just plain untrue. In our organization alone I know of three individuals who left high paying jobs in secular radio and took major pay cuts to join us because they felt called to do something more with their talents. The same is true with some others in management.

If you want to call it corporate greed, that's your choice. I think it's just good stewardship to try to serve as many people as possible. Ratings and research are the primary means we have for measuring how well we're doing. That doesn't make it evil.

I just wish we could have discussions on these boards without vilifying so many people.

 

[joelr]

What a great post, especially the last line.

Don62-

I don't know what to tell you. Why would ANY radio station continue to broadcast something, if most listeners aren't interested in it? I said before that I personally love CCM form the 70's and 80's. Phil Keaggy's "Town to Town" is one of my favorites and I still listen to Keith Green and Whiteheart, but as someone mentioned earlier, most CCM listeners today simply don't know that music.

Now, I understand if you and others don't like today's CCM, but is it neccessary to say that today's programmers are "greedy" and "sell-outs". I do consider those accusations and I don't agree because it's just plain untrue. In our organization alone I know of three individuals who left high paying jobs in secular radio and took major pay cuts to join us because they felt called to do something more with their talents. The same is true with some others in management.

If you want to call it corporate greed, that's your choice. I think it's just good stewardship to try to serve as many people as possible. Ratings and research are the primary means we have for measuring how well we're doing. That doesn't make it evil.

I just wish we could have discussions on these boards without vilifying so many people.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Joelr said, I think it's just good stewardship to try to serve as many people as possible.

I couldn't agree more. So by putting some CCM Gold, say every 7th song in your rotation, you'd be including an entire bunch of people that Christian radio has abandoned. There are stations that serve the older very conservative listeners (Family Radio/hymn based formats). There are stations that serve the young today's CCM station. The inbetween group from say 40-60 are left out. So be that good steward and add some CCM Gold to your line up and pull us in as listeners too.

 

[William_Yeager]

How many 40-60 year old listeners actually grew up with CCM? It sounds like a slam dunk if there's been a CCM station in your market since the 1980s, but how many markets have had a CCM station that long? In Louisville, where WJIE has been on for twenty years and has two competing Christian ACs, even they're playing very little pre-2000 material, much less pre-1990 material.

A Christian Classic Hits or Variety Hits format is still probably 10 years away from being viable

 

[passafistwastaken]

Joelr said, I think it's just good stewardship to try to serve as many people as possible.

I couldn't agree more. So by putting some CCM Gold, say every 7th song in your rotation, you'd be including an entire bunch of people that Christian radio has abandoned. There are stations that serve the older very conservative listeners (Family Radio/hymn based formats). There are stations that serve the young today's CCM station. The inbetween group from say 40-60 are left out. So be that good steward and add some CCM Gold to your line up and pull us in as listeners too.

Hmmm.... turn the card the other way. Say you had a Christian Oldies station and every 6th or 7th song they played a Natalie Grant, Casting Crowns song? Would you be more likely to turn off the station? With CCM stations TSL is king, you want to create an enviroment for your core listener. Is this a bad thing? Of course not.

The old arguement works the same way with Christian Rock Blocks. Your core listener (whoever that person is) is on your station listening for Rez Band, Randy Stonehill, etc, but for an hour your station plays a rock block, is your core audience going to like that? Probably not, so for one hour you have a totally diffrent audience, that is not going to go to your concerts, listen to your music, support your advertisers, or whatever. Is that one hour worth alienating the majority of your audience?

Wait... Wait let's take even one step further.... (Maybe I shouldn't go there) your a Classic Christian Oldies station, your core audience goes to listen to the classic's, but for three hours at night you have a talk block, great preachers... well for three hours your station is no longer catering to the core audience. You may get listeners that Love the preaching, but you'll probably lose a good chunk of music listeners.

This is not about greed, or lust for money (in fact a Christian Talk station can make tons of money in Syndication clears), or secular record companies. It's about defining your audience. If that person goes to you for 80's Smooth Jazz or Christian Oldies that what you play for them, if you stray they go away, and in a medium that is about getting and keeping listeners that's the most important thing.

 

[Retro]

Again I will ask the question, wouldn't there be enough listeners where CCM has been dominant for a couple of decades? Nashville, Dallas/Fort Worth, places in the Bible belt, etc?

 

[anotherguyTN]

How many 40-60 year old listeners actually grew up with CCM? It sounds like a slam dunk if there's been a CCM station in your market since the 1980s, but how many markets have had a CCM station that long? In Louisville, where WJIE has been on for twenty years and has two competing Christian ACs, even they're playing very little pre-2000 material, much less pre-1990 material.

I've posted the same thought before in that in the 70's and 80's CCM radio was mostly in larger cities or towns with Christian colleges that accepted CCM. I discovered CCM during a short time when I lived in Memphis and there was an available station to hear it on. In rural West TN (The Jackson and Dyersburg areas) where I've lived the rest of the time, CCM was only available from the Memphis stations, which were extremely weak or not receivable at all, and opposed or ignored by most churches and local Christian stations. It wasn't until the early 90's that there got to be weekend CCM shows on local secular stations that a lot of people discovered CCM, then came translators for WAY-FM and AFR (which had a Saturday night CCM show on weekends at that time) in the late 90's, and then finally K-LOVE in 2001. It wasn't until 2005 that there was finally a locally owned CCM station. Because of that most people in West TN only know about CCM from the 90's and later. The only earlier CCM some of them might know about are Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith. And of course classic CCM isn't played by the traditional stations because it's still CCM, especially to listeners who are biased against anything that isn't hymns and Southern Gospel.

I think the idea of mixing a classic CCM song every 7th song or so is a good idea, but since most of it isn't on CD, a lot of stations won't play it.

As for cities like Nashville or Dallas, it looks like that it would make sense for someone to try a classic CCM station there.

 

[Don62]

Joelr said, I think it's just good stewardship to try to serve as many people as possible.

I couldn't agree more. So by putting some CCM Gold, say every 7th song in your rotation, you'd be including an entire bunch of people that Christian radio has abandoned. There are stations that serve the older very conservative listeners (Family Radio/hymn based formats). There are stations that serve the young today's CCM station. The inbetween group from say 40-60 are left out. So be that good steward and add some CCM Gold to your line up and pull us in as listeners too.

Hmmm.... turn the card the other way. Say you had a Christian Oldies station and every 6th or 7th song they played a Natalie Grant, Casting Crowns song? Would you be more likely to turn off the station? With CCM stations TSL is king, you want to create an enviroment for your core listener. Is this a bad thing? Of course not.

The old arguement works the same way with Christian Rock Blocks. Your core listener (whoever that person is) is on your station listening for Rez Band, Randy Stonehill, etc, but for an hour your station plays a rock block, is your core audience going to like that? Probably not, so for one hour you have a totally diffrent audience, that is not going to go to your concerts, listen to your music, support your advertisers, or whatever. Is that one hour worth alienating the majority of your audience?

Wait... Wait let's take even one step further.... (Maybe I shouldn't go there) your a Classic Christian Oldies station, your core audience goes to listen to the classic's, but for three hours at night you have a talk block, great preachers... well for three hours your station is no longer catering to the core audience. You may get listeners that Love the preaching, but you'll probably lose a good chunk of music listeners.

This is not about greed, or lust for money (in fact a Christian Talk station can make tons of money in Syndication clears), or secular record companies. It's about defining your audience. If that person goes to you for 80's Smooth Jazz or Christian Oldies that what you play for them, if you stray they go away, and in a medium that is about getting and keeping listeners that's the most important thing.

Noooooo. The format doesn't have to be so rigid.

Take a successful "Magic FM" CHR station that I was familiar with during the 1990s. The station played currents, and mixed in every so often strong oldies such as California Girls and Oh, Pretty Woman.

The station didn't lose a big chunk of its audience. Listeners weren't offended.
It catered to many that remember the songs and introduced new songs to those who hadn't heard them.

This of course was before there was an oldies station in the market.

I don't think such a mixture would be a problem, as there aren't any competing CCM oldies stations anywhere. (or few).

How many 40-60 year old listeners actually grew up with CCM? It sounds like a slam dunk if there's been a CCM station in your market since the 1980s, but how many markets have had a CCM station that long? In Louisville, where WJIE has been on for twenty years and has two competing Christian ACs, even they're playing very little pre-2000 material, much less pre-1990 material.

A Christian Classic Hits or Variety Hits format is still probably 10 years away from being viable

Well, by that time, the listeners who grew up with those oldies will likely be approaching their 60s.

And we know what radio thinks of anyone over 45....

"Get out of here. We don't care for you. You don't buy products. Ad agencies hate people with grey hair."

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I can't speak for the Bible belt cities, but in the liberal Northeast, it seems that there is only one CCM station in a market, granted there generally is one hymns station, possibly a Salem talker too. But there is only one choice for CCM / Praise music in many cities. So the periodic CCM Gold song wouldn't chase your core audience away, where are they going to go, to the hymn station that plays even older and slower music than CCM Gold, and many of the hymns use church organs and choirs, or Christian talk/preachers? I don't think so. A CCM station in the Northeast generally has a monopoly. There isn't any competition or anywhere for the CCM Gold listener to go. So in essence, CCM radio is saying we don't need that older demo, just like secular radio. One would think that the Lord's radio stations would be above such an attitude. When you do this for the lesser of these you are doing it for me. So I listen to my CCM tapes and CD's and secular Classical Music and Jazz radio. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Retro]

Speaking of CCM gold, back in the 90's in my area (yes, also in the Northeast) we had a radio station come in here and do CCM during the morning and PM drive hours. While they played currents, they would occasionally play what they called a "Christian Classic." Now they wouldn't play anything that was hard edged at all, just Michael W. Smith, The Imperials, Barry Mguire, 2nd Chapter of Acts, etc. It worked.

My biggest complaint was that the station was too AC, but then they added the Newsboys "Breakfast" just so they can say that they were hip! While I enjoyed them playing that, they would talk over the very ending where the children are singing while it faded, but anyway.

My point being that it would work, at least as MikefromDeleware said, in the Northeast anyway.