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Mike Kaplan named PD of WRFF

PrezSquid said:
Welp, nothing you can do about that now. Just share music and cut the superiority crap, boom alternative is good again
Click to expand...

Says you. Once again, you like it, so enjoy it. But don't expect everyone else to agree.

Alternative today is whatever people want it to be. That makes it difficult to play on the radio because there's no consensus.

Other genres of music don't have that problem, so it's easier to play what they want on the radio.
 
I actually monitor and listen to a lot of new music. Meanwhile you stopped giving a hoot because you think it’s bad or soemthing
 
Anyway I don’t got time for this, gonna request some Lorde or Foals to 91X today. This Gen Zer is hungry for 2010s nostalgia
 
PrezSquid said:
Because reminder, alternative is supposed to be a format that breaks artists that are underground, you know… just like they did in the 80s with new wave and punk bands????
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Alternative is supposed to be a radio format that makes their parent company money by reaching a certain demographic. Some stations do this by being more indie. Some stations do this by leaning more active rock. There is no one-size-fits-all blueprint to the format.
 
PrezSquid said:
They literally sell out concerts.

They have a huge internet fan base.

They have millions of streams on Spotify
Click to expand...

Let's look at Squid then under these metrics.

They sell out concerts? Possibly. Their last show in Philadelphia (albeit in 2021) was at Johnny Brenda's. Capacity? 250. Although that's a step up from their previous Philly stop at Kung Fu Necktie- Capacity 140. In their defense, their upcoming show in February is at Union Transfer, which can hold up to 1,200. But let's see how ticket sales go.

Squid also currently has 187,465 monthly listeners on Spotify. For some comparison to charting Alt artists:

Noah Kahan- 15+ Million
Nothing But Thieves- 5.1+ Million
Little Image- 284,000+
Bad Omens- 4.4+ Million

How about some non-charting Alt artists?
Teenage Wrist- 295,000+
Ruston Kelly- 630,000+

A completely unsigned band from West Virginia that I follow, called A Story Told, has 178,000+ monthly listeners. Based on your metrics, this band who doesn't tour and just makes cool music on the side deserves to be regularly played on Alt radio? Their songs have millions of listens too.

As for having a "huge internet fan base," that's completely subjective.

We get it from your multiple odd posts... the music you like isn't fully represented on Alternative radio, and that sucks. But radio is a business first and foremost, and the Alternative music format is fractured like never before with sub-genres that some parts of the demographic love, and some hate.

You also stated:
alternative is supposed to be a format that breaks artists that are underground,
Click to expand...
Nope. Again. Alternative is supposed to be a format that targets a certain demographic to make money off of. Just like Country. Just like CHR etc.

Anyway, that's all the time I have for you. If you'd like to prove everyone wrong, there are plenty of radio stations up for sale that you could try your version of Alternative on. Good luck.
 
atthestars said:
Squid also currently has 187,465 monthly listeners on Spotify. For some comparison to charting Alt artists:

Noah Kahan- 15+ Million
Nothing But Thieves- 5.1+ Million
Little Image- 284,000+
Bad Omens- 4.4+ Million

How about some non-charting Alt artists?
Teenage Wrist- 295,000+
Ruston Kelly- 630,000+
Click to expand...

To broaden that out, let's consider an unsigned country singer from Virginia named Oliver Anthony. He has over 9 million monthly listeners on Spotify. His best known song has been streamed 57 million times. That's just on Spotify. Another 64 million views on YouTube. Nobody knew his name one month ago. He's still not signed to a record label. This is what alternative is competing against in the music world.
 
TheBigA said:
No, because alternative was supposed to be an alternative to bloated corporate rock bands at the time like Journey. Then alternative became the exact thing they hated.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that's entirely true but you make a good point about the definition of the category having evolved.

I think of 'Alternative' music as basically consisting of 'current rock' now, because Active Rock radio stations don't play much new music anymore, and what new stuff they do play just sounds like a rehash of 90's hard rock.

'Indie' has taken over from what 'Alternative' used to be. And I mean 'Indie' as a genre, not to be taken literally as music only on independent record labels.

The definitions have definitely become rather nuanced but i think of today's 'Alternative' music as a pretty safe -- even formulaic -- major label, radio-ready genre now, while 'Indie' is the new (small-a) alternative to that mainstream sound.

An interesting example of this is in the Toronto market where you have the pioneering, but now corporately-owned 'Alternative' station Edge 102.1 (CFNY) competing with upstart commercial 'Indie' station, Indie88 (CIND). While they do share a lot of the same songs on their playlists, Edge 102 sounds quite mainstream overall now, like a modern-day current rock station, while Indie88 is more adventurous like Alternative radio used to be.
 
Theater of My Mind said:
An interesting example of this is in the Toronto market where you have the pioneering, but now corporately-owned 'Alternative' station Edge 102 9 (CFNY) competing with upstart commercial 'Indie' station, Indie88 (CIND). While they do share a lot of the same songs on their playlists, Edge 102 sounds quite mainstream overall now, like a modern-day current rock station, while Indie88 is more adventurous like Alternative radio used to be.
Click to expand...

And the Edge has regularly beaten Indie in the ratings. Is it heritage carrying the Edge? The more popular playlist? Signal coverage areas are pretty much identical.

Source: Toronto - RadioInsight
 
Theater of My Mind said:
'Indie' has taken over from what 'Alternative' used to be. And I mean 'Indie' as a genre, not to be taken literally as music only on independent record labels.
Click to expand...

I agree, and that's why I say that this music belongs on non-commercial stations. This idea that iHeart radio stations need to play these bands that do shows in 200-seat clubs is crazy.
 
chrocket87 said:
David, about a decade ago, I remember you saying that they had a power ratio of about a 0.3, when their share was about double what it is today. So with their PR around a 0.6 with lower ratings, is it safe to assume their revenue, or at least share of revenue, is roughly the same as 10 years ago?
Click to expand...
That is partly true. A power ratio is based on station billing compared to market billing compared to other stations compared to ratings.

There are two other variables: the market has not grown and total revenue is off... and radio ratings for the market usage of radio are down by nearly half. (Rating, not share)
 
atthestars said:
And the Edge has regularly beaten Indie in the ratings. Is it heritage carrying the Edge? The more popular playlist?
Click to expand...

i would think a little of both. Historically, Alternative (now Indie) radio stations were never the top-rated stations in any market. They were scrappy upstarts, often owned by smaller companies happy to occupy the niche and make the most of it. They'd embrace those 200-seat club shows that corporate owners considered too insignificant. That's really a huge part of the attraction to people who like the genre, though.

With all the consolidation over the years there aren't many stations like that left, especially in major markets. The Toronto situation is one of the few exceptions I can think of.

In spite of the lower ratings, Indie88 seems to air plenty of spots from respectable advertisers including a healthy number of national ones. And plenty of club/concert business.
 
atthestars said:
Let's look at Squid then under these metrics.

They sell out concerts? Possibly. Their last show in Philadelphia (albeit in 2021) was at Johnny Brenda's. Capacity? 250. Although that's a step up from their previous Philly stop at Kung Fu Necktie- Capacity 140. In their defense, their upcoming show in February is at Union Transfer, which can hold up to 1,200. But let's see how ticket sales go.

Squid also currently has 187,465 monthly listeners on Spotify. For some comparison to charting Alt artists:

Noah Kahan- 15+ Million
Nothing But Thieves- 5.1+ Million
Little Image- 284,000+
Bad Omens- 4.4+ Million

How about some non-charting Alt artists?
Teenage Wrist- 295,000+
Ruston Kelly- 630,000+

A completely unsigned band from West Virginia that I follow, called A Story Told, has 178,000+ monthly listeners. Based on your metrics, this band who doesn't tour and just makes cool music on the side deserves to be regularly played on Alt radio? Their songs have millions of listens too.

As for having a "huge internet fan base," that's completely subjective.

We get it from your multiple odd posts... the music you like isn't fully represented on Alternative radio, and that sucks. But radio is a business first and foremost, and the Alternative music format is fractured like never before with sub-genres that some parts of the demographic love, and some hate.

You also stated:

Nope. Again. Alternative is supposed to be a format that targets a certain demographic to make money off of. Just like Country. Just like CHR etc.

Anyway, that's all the time I have for you. If you'd like to prove everyone wrong, there are plenty of radio stations up for sale that you could try your version of Alternative on. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Was talking about Paramore for selling out lol
 
I get Squid is a bad example, but they’re a band alternative would’ve played in the 90s… but Paramore was my point for having a lot of streamers
 
Also I don’t want one specific band to get played on radio.

I want everything to be represented, old, new, indie, popular,

Variety is key.
 
Why do you think I listed those albums of liked indie and alternative albums in the other page? It’s an example of what’s going on in alternative this year, it takes a simple google search and researching indie news sources for.

But I’m happy to discuss what you think should be played for alternative? I love Little Image, I’d play them too. It’s about getting the biggest audience as possible.
 
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