I've seen so many posts about this subject so one more shouldn't matter. Whenever I read radio station press releases or read about latest numbers, there is usually always a reference to 25-54.That is the desirable advertising demo that has been around it seems since Day One. It's not my personal feelings or love of certain formats such as oldies that make me see things differently - it's actual behavior.Anyone who thinks those who are 55-64 exhibit the same purchasing habits or who have income limitations as prior generations is living in a dream world.Just in the local newspaper yesterday, I read an article that talked about how baby boomers are buying second homes, vacation homes and retirement homes. Second homes, for example, require buying furniture, landscaping, appliances and on and on. Last week ABC's World News Tonight ran a feature about baby boomers who are beginning retirement and/or who are planning it. Interesting is that the majority appear to want to live in big cities near entertainment venues, restaurants, musuems etc. and not content in just sitting on a beach or just playing golf for the rest of their lives. That's a big behavior shift that is taking place.I'm just a year shy from leaving 25-54. This year alone, I bought a new car and a new computer. Over the next few years, I'm planning on some major home improvements. It's rare that I purchase anything or obtain service as a result of hearing an add on the radio. Overall, my radio listening has diminished significantly especially since so many radio stations sound the same and they do little to hold my interest. I usually do my own product research and hear word of mouth recommendation from others when I buy most things. I think I speak for millions who are like me. The rules are the rules, I'm not going to change how things are. But while I see a dozen radio stations, at least, in every market jockeying for some piece of 25-54, I have to laugh. The reality is there will always be some radio stations in every market who will be "also-rans" in 25-54. Oldies listeners are loyal and I don't think we switch stations when commercials air as quickly as younger people do - just my opinion. I still say, when oldies are formatted correctly, they can still make a decent showing 45+. Hiring the right sales team who know and understand the format is a huge step in the right direction. But the bottom line is the bottom line. Until advertisers accept the fact that those over 54 are buying products and are not as set in their ways as they think, little will change. I'm convinced that the advertising pie should grow larger with the inclusion of older demos and this could be a huge benefit to the stations who can barely keep their head above water trying to sound like everyone else. It's an alternative that is not allowed to exist given the current advertising rules.
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Minority Opinion - Advertisers are off the mark!
- Thread starter John FL
- Start date
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fred flintstone
Guest
Don't believe what you read in newspapers. They like to take an interesting anecdote and call it a trend. It used to be man bites dog is news. Now it's "authorities look for ways to halt outbreak of people biting their dogs. Could your dog be next?"Boomers buy stuff. They don't buy as much. And they don't buy the kinds of things that radio advertisers sell. Notice the kinds of spots run on Real Oldies and Standards stations. Financial services. Retirement homes. Cruises. Big American cars. Not what you heard advertised on most stations.Boomers are loyal and therefore not responsive to advertising intended to get people to change brands or buy new products. Yes, advertisers get some return on investment from baby boomers. But ads targeting the money demos generate a lot more revenue. Researchers don't just do audience ratings, they track consumer purchase behavior very carefully. If marketers could make as much money selling to current boomers, they would.Satellite radio has some great channels (plural) for Standards and Real Oldies. How come you haven't signed up? Could it be the advertisers are right and boomers are a harder sell for something new?Advertisers pay a premium to reach the money demos. If a station has an audience of money demo listeners they can charge higher rates. The advertising pie could grow larger with the inclusion of older demos if more stations were added to accommodate them. Unfortunately, that's not possible and stations have an obligation to stockholders (including people in the older demos who have invested for their retirements) to maximize profits and not chase peripheral markets.Your opinion is hardly the minority on this board. Like others, however, you over-simplify things. It's not that boomers don't buy ANYTHING, or don't provide ANY return on investment to advertisers. They don't provide enough. Advertisers deal with aggragates and patterns. That's why it's called "mass marketing." Just because you bought some furniture and you know somebody who bought a car, doesn't change facts overall. Sort of like how my dad used to say my grandmother never smoked and died of cancer, so smoking doesn't cause cancer.
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OldiesCat1
Guest
Advertisers
I don't disagree with your premise- but the real world of commercial radio in 2006 is that advertisers do not view 55+ listeners as valuable for today AND the future. They'd rather target somebody younger, with the idea that they can keep them for today and the near future- they see no future value in 55+ audience. Don't like it, don't agree with it- but it is what it is. We can either cry and whine about what should be or we can deal with what we have and make the best of it. Had Oldies radio forseen this (which many of us did) 10 years ago, the format might not be in such trouble today.
I don't disagree with your premise- but the real world of commercial radio in 2006 is that advertisers do not view 55+ listeners as valuable for today AND the future. They'd rather target somebody younger, with the idea that they can keep them for today and the near future- they see no future value in 55+ audience. Don't like it, don't agree with it- but it is what it is. We can either cry and whine about what should be or we can deal with what we have and make the best of it. Had Oldies radio forseen this (which many of us did) 10 years ago, the format might not be in such trouble today.
I just wonder if the chickens are coming home to roost. Maybe for years the oldies stations had such narrow playlists that a lot of folks just tuned out. Of course there are lots of ways to market to over 55 folks. Lets start with a few ideas: Buicks, Doctors of all kinds, Cataract surgury, plastic surgury, the early bird special. Cemetary and Funeral homes. You get the picture.... I got into a discussion regarding just this with a friend. He said he supports the oldies station's advertisers all the time. I asked him to give me an example. A local restaraunt held an old car cruise type show and advertised heavily on this station. He attends. That was his example. I asked him if he went into the restarant to eat. He said no, he brought his own sandwich lunch. Nuff Said????
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OldiesCat1
Guest
Advertisers
Anecdotal tales are nice but oldies radio programmers and fans need to get their heads out of the sand and consider REALITY. What you say above may indeed be true-you may know it and I may know it, but if the advertisers that actually spend money don't know it (or care), none of what we thinks matters.sbe1 said:
[Overall, my radio listening has diminished significantly, especially since so many radio stations sound the same and they do little to hold my interest.]I think that this is your answer. The 55+ audience has pretty much left free music radio for the reason you described. Satellite was the answer for me. If free radio decided today that they wanted to program to 55+, I don't believe they could get that audience back.
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OldiesCat1
Guest
I think you misunderstood. I'm not necessarily saying they've left terrestrial radio because advertisers aren't targeting them. I'm saying they still listen but advertisers don't care about 55+. Satellite radio is still a very, very small slice of listening and the older the demo the lower it goes.Let's face it- no matter how great your programming is or how big your audience is (over 50), you cannot make a living targeting cemetary, funeral home and Buick ad business. The advertisers expect good performance either 25-54 or 18-49 (or your slice of those demos). Even the still solid oldies stations are 45-54 and even that audience is aging out of the 25-54 glamor cell every year.
Surprise: the ratings show that most 55+ people do NOT listen to oldies, even if there is an oldies station in the market. Even in the prime oldies demos of 45-54 and 55-64, formats like talk, Classic rock, AC and (depending on the geographic area) country have higher shares of the higher end. And in markets with a large ethnic component, urban AC and Hispanic adult hits get huge shares. The fact is that most Americans in the oldies demos do not like oldies... they have moved on to other formats or never, in thier youth, listened to Top 40.TheFonz said:
Appreciate the comments! Overall, I've agreed with OldiesCat in his many posts in that he has been consistant in the view that oldies stations got stale. Literally, programmers held onto the tried and true tunes that brought initial success but did little in attracting new/younger listeners over time. Then when the handwriting was on the wall, the changes came too fast and the core audience moved on.Regarding David's comment that ratings indicate 55+ listened more to other venues besides oldies where an oldies station existed is not an earth shattering statement. But you can say that about any format. If an average station/format gets between, let's say, an overall share of 3.00-5.00, then just about 95% of individual listening would not take place for any particular radio station. To say most people don't like oldies in the oldies demo is a broad-brush statement. Oldies stations never had big promotional budgets even in their hey day. But they were counted on to deliver consistant audience share and they did that and did for a heck of a long time and yes they were advertiser friendly.I also find it interesting that so much advertsing I do see on television often include a song you could regularly hear on a traditional oldies station. Why is that? I can't tell you how many movies for decades have utilized oldies in their soundtrack. It's music that is familiar to generations. What a hoot it is to see the Americal Idol contestants belt out songs that were popular some 20 years before they were even born! There is still a special appeal for oldies even if it is no longer in vogue on Madison Avenue. This board has more posts than the other formats. That says tons!
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fred flintstone
Guest
Oldiescat does not undermine your basic premise. He says the fault lies in the execution of the format. He's not wrong that the format has gotten stale. Maybe Oldies has lost some listeners to satellite oldies - to AC - even to talk. But mostly if people can't find the most-best station, they listen to the least-worst station. Oldies stations got stale because mostly they lack competition within their format. That pretty much happens to any station without a direct competitor.People listen to radio less partly because all of radio has gotten stale; mostly because they have other options.But the issue many of you don't want to confront is radio is a business. Ratings are secondary. Sales revenue is what matters. Ratings are only a (somewhat limited) sales tool. It doesn't matter what anyone likes. It only matters what sells.But you all don't want to hear that.Get satellite radio! Stop complaining and use a little of that disposible income you all keep talking about. Show you really are willing to try something new. Advertisers courted boomers for 40 years and paid for the radio you listened to all that time. The free ride is over. Deal with it.PS: News-talk and dance get more posts. This board kept the posts from old board when Oldies was split into multiple boards. Not that posts on this board have anything to do with anything in the real world.
[Get satellite radio! Stop complaining and use a little of that disposible income you all keep talking about. Show you really are willing to try something new. Advertisers courted boomers for 40 years and paid for the radio you listened to all that time. The free ride is over. Deal with it.]Right on, Fred! I did, and it's one of the best decisions I ever made. "Free" music radio is the VHS of the industry. Good for the basics, if you're not fussy. And it should be around for a few more years.
To put this to rest.....
Hey, I've got XM and am listening to it now as a matter of fact. But that's not really the point. Look, all I've been trying to say (over the past year) is that advertising/revenue is based on rules that have remained constant for decades. If life expectacy, overall disposable income and retirement age remained constant, then I would tend to agree with business as usual. But that's not the case-and it's not just my opinion there's lots of data out there saying something else.Perhaps my love of the oldies format prejudices my feelings and I will admit to that. But, I firmly believe that in most markets a good 60s/70s station represents an alternative to all the sound alike stations. Programming is key and you have to have a top notch sales team who know and understand the format. For also-ran stations, the format could position themselves better both in audience share and revenue too. But the reality is most won't bother expending lots of energy and effort in a format whose audience will only get even older and is shunned by most advertisers. I often think, what would happen if the "rules" changed and advertsing was targeted 25-62. Hey, anything is possible.
Hey, I've got XM and am listening to it now as a matter of fact. But that's not really the point. Look, all I've been trying to say (over the past year) is that advertising/revenue is based on rules that have remained constant for decades. If life expectacy, overall disposable income and retirement age remained constant, then I would tend to agree with business as usual. But that's not the case-and it's not just my opinion there's lots of data out there saying something else.Perhaps my love of the oldies format prejudices my feelings and I will admit to that. But, I firmly believe that in most markets a good 60s/70s station represents an alternative to all the sound alike stations. Programming is key and you have to have a top notch sales team who know and understand the format. For also-ran stations, the format could position themselves better both in audience share and revenue too. But the reality is most won't bother expending lots of energy and effort in a format whose audience will only get even older and is shunned by most advertisers. I often think, what would happen if the "rules" changed and advertsing was targeted 25-62. Hey, anything is possible.
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u-j
Guest
radio's strength is that it has the ability to sway people to a particular brand. Radio doesn't persuade you to buy something if you weren't planning to buy it anyway. If John Q. Listener wakes up tomorrow and thinks "I'm going to buy a car today", radio can move them to a particular dealer or brand. If, however, he wakes with the thought "I'm going to buy a new Honda", radio is not as effective as the primary advertising medium. That's why the USP is so critical in advertising and, yet, one of the most overlooked facets.
[If, however, he wakes with the thought "I'm going to buy a new Honda", radio is not as effective as the primary advertising medium. That's why the USP is so critical in advertising and, yet, one of the most overlooked facets.]Most larger cities have more than one Honda dealer. How does John Q. decide which one to buy from? Newspaper advertising, I guess.................................
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fred flintstone
Guest
You are assuming people have made up their minds to buy a Honda before they go to a car dealer. Most prospective buyers consider different makes and models - and visit different dealers. Outside of small market and suburban stations, car dealers don't buy radio like they used to. Most radio stations' coverage areas are much bigger than people are willing to drive to shop for a car and therefore much of the advertising dollar is wasted. Radio doesn't sell cars; dealer sales people sell cars. And radio doesn't generate traffic like dealers once believed it did. Actually, radio doesn't sell much of anything. Radio is a reminder medium.
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