Mix 104.1 and WXLO 104.5

[dhoule]

I'm wondering if the move to 104.1 might hurt Mix. It's proximity to XLO at 104.5 could have more people switching back and forth between the two stations.

 

[radiofool89]

[EDIT-Reference to deleted content]


i think it will hurt mix in the long run having xlo the next station on the dial.

 

[Jacko]

Everybody seems to be really worried that the new Mix 104 is going to be negatively affected by its proximity to 104.5 WXLO. Realistically, I don't think many people inside the Rt. 128 belt don't even know what WXLO is, unless you're commuting to Worcester County from the greater Boston area. Plus, these days many radios are digital with presets that bring you to stations instantanously, rather than having a dial where you're hearing as you're moving from one station to the next. Perhaps there may be some affect to WXLO listenership in Worcester County, but I highly doubt that would happen either.

Jacko

 

[Oxford_Street_Shuffle]

Why the Frequency Switch?

So here's a stupid question? Why not just put "The Sports Hub" on 104.1 and leave Mix at 98.5? Why are they flippiing the two?

 

[JoshuaC]

Re: Why the Frequency Switch?

So here's a stupid question? Why not just put "The Sports Hub" on 104.1 and leave Mix at 98.5? Why are they flippiing the two?

Power and coverage. 104.1 is higher powered than 98.5 and has more potential for building penetration - appetizing for a "listen while you work" AC type station. 98.5 broadcast at a higher height above average terrain than 104.1 giving a bit better coverage in the suburbs - appetizing for the "listen to the game on the back porch this weekend" crowd.

 

[BRNout]

Re: Why the Frequency Switch?

So here's a stupid question? Why not just put "The Sports Hub" on 104.1 and leave Mix at 98.5? Why are they flippiing the two?

Power and coverage. 104.1 is higher powered than 98.5 and has more potential for building penetration - appetizing for a "listen while you work" AC type station. 98.5 broadcast at a higher height above average terrain than 104.1 giving a bit better coverage in the suburbs - appetizing for the "listen to the game on the back porch this weekend" crowd.

98.5 gets out farther too - especially to the west. Get into the Worcester hills and 104.1 is fighting with WMRQ from the Hartford area. On the other hand, 98.5 is loud and clear there. It also comes in better in Foxborough than 104.1. I keep seeing these references to 104.1 being the "better" signal, but I've only noticed that to be true in downtown Boston. Anywhere in the suburbs, it is weaker than 98.5 - with the exceptions being the South Shore and Cape Ann.

 

[necrat123]

WBCN's coverage being more limited than 98.5's has nothing to do with signal limitations, but rather due to co-channel interference. WBCN and WBMX both run full power class B facilities. The big difference is, WBCN's 21kW has a better job of building penetration in the urban core than WBMX's 9kW. But WBMX is a pretty clear channel in Massachusetts, only having 1st adjacents in Willimantic, CT., Somerworth, NH., and on the fringe in Winchendon. The closest co-channels are on Long Island and in Catskill, NY. Down here in Providence, 104.1 is also hammered by noise from a sloppy pirate on 104.3, as well as the terrain around here tends to lead to good Hartford reception in spots. (On the East Bay, it is not uncommon at all to have 104.1 be WMRQ instead of WBCN.)

But pound for pound, the signals are "almost" identical. (I know I've received WBCN better than WBMX up in York Beach, ME.)

 

[BRNout]

But pound for pound, the signals are "almost" identical. (I know I've received WBCN better than WBMX up in York Beach, ME.)

Yes, you're right to point out that the channel at 98.5 is a good spot - it was even better before the Long Island station signed on. There were times during tropo events that you could get WBMX (or it's predecessor WROR) down in central CT!

But, an admittedly nitpicky comment: you should be able to get WBCN a little better in Maine because the Pru is closer to points northeast than Needham.

 

[Rick]

In the New Bedford area, 98.5 gets wiped out in parts of New Bedford, Fairhaven and Dartmouth on radios with poor selectivity due to the transmitter for 98.1 being right in between New Bedford's downtown and the south end (also home to 1340 WNBH). 104.1 comes in better in those locations. Otherwise on the South Coast, I have been doing some comparisons while driving around (I have the JVC KD-HDR1 HD radio) and both signals are very similar. As stated already, 98.5 is on FM128 and 104.1 is on the Pru, so I guess the main reason for the switch is for the Boston signal penetration.

 

[DanStrassberg]

As stated already, 98.5 is on FM128 and 104.1 is on the Pru, so I guess the main reason for the switch is for the Boston signal penetration.

That better signal penetration downtown was what drove most of the Boston full Bs to the Pru. One that couldn't move is 102.5 because of IF problems with WUMB (102.5-10.7 = 91.8 ). WBUR has to be directional to the north and east, so it must be west of Boston. But for some reason, several other stations remained in Newton/Needham. I believe that 103.3 and 92.9 also remain on FM-128. (Like 102.5, 92.9 may have technical reasons for not moving, but I don't know what they are.) So, aside from 102.5, which I know has a technical reason for not moving (it did just recently move from FM-128 to the WBZ-TV tower, however), what--besides the probability that rents on the tall towers are lower than those downtown--motivated those stations that remain in Newton/Needham to remain? Could it be that by the time the stations that remain wanted to move, there was no place downtown for them to move to?

 

[Gadon]

Don't forget, by leaving a music format on 104.1 does keeps the door slightly open to bring back WBCN if the opportunity seems right to doso ..In other markets, CBS Radio shown, it is not afraid to restore a station to it's glory.. They brought back 92.3 K Rock and WYSP in Philly (Both former Stern stations) to their rock formats.. Both bombed in the ratings, and 92.3 is now NOW-FM, and WYSP in rumored to flip.. CBS blew up WCBS-FM in New York City once, for JACK-FM, and then blew up the low rated JACK-FM and brought WCBS-FM to great success.. You never know what can happen.. I think thats an available option, besides the technical elements..

 

[JustinT]

As stated already, 98.5 is on FM128 and 104.1 is on the Pru, so I guess the main reason for the switch is for the Boston signal penetration.

I believe that 103.3 and 92.9 also remain on FM-128.

92.9 WBOS uses the Pru as it's primary site, though it and its Greater Media sister stations all have backup sites at FM-128.

 

[BRNout]

As stated already, 98.5 is on FM128 and 104.1 is on the Pru, so I guess the main reason for the switch is for the Boston signal penetration.

That better signal penetration downtown was what drove most of the Boston full Bs to the Pru. One that couldn't move is 102.5 because of IF problems with WUMB (102.5-10.7 = 91.8 ). WBUR has to be directional to the north and east, so it must be west of Boston. But for some reason, several other stations remained in Newton/Needham. I believe that 103.3 and 92.9 also remain on FM-128. (Like 102.5, 92.9 may have technical reasons for not moving, but I don't know what they are.) So, aside from 102.5, which I know has a technical reason for not moving (it did just recently move from FM-128 to the WBZ-TV tower, however), what--besides the probability that rents on the tall towers are lower than those downtown--motivated those stations that remain in Newton/Needham to remain? Could it be that by the time the stations that remain wanted to move, there was no place downtown for them to move to?

It would seem to be more complicate than that. Frankly, to me, those stations on the 128 tower are the ones with the long-term advantage. Why? Because there's no room for growth in Boston proper. It's basically built out. Because of that it is an area that's prohibitively expensive for young families. As Boston is a metropolitan area that essentially has the Atlantic Ocean as its east side, the bulk of that suburban growth has been to the west, northwest and southwest. Particularly parts of Worcester, north Middlesex and western Norfolk Counties AND southern New Hampshire. The stations that transmit from the 128 towers have the signal advantage in those areas.

Not just that, but businesses have increasingly felt the pinch of Boston prices and an increasing number have located in the 128 and 495 corridors. Again, for the most part west, northwest and southwest of the city. Again, in areas where the stations with transmitters in Needham have the advantage. Only in Boston, Somerville and Cambridge does the Pru give the advantage. However, perception isn't reality in this case. You have a market with 4 million residents and only about 25% live in places where the Pru txs work better than those on 128.

Lastly, I admit that it's a PPM world now and work listening is important. This is the last bastion of advantage for the Pru located stations. However, a lot of the suburbanites are apt to 'set it and forget it' on car radios whether what they like comes from downtown or Needham. Yes, the Pru signals get downtown workers. But, those out on 128 get more suburban workers. It's not the advantage it was in 1975.

Even in a place like Braintree, it doesn't make that much difference. The stations from the Needham towers come in just fine.

Why not move? Well, the future of the Boston area is spreading north, west and southwest for one thing. For another, perhaps many cannot move. But that's not such a bad thing. For most of us, the Pru signals are not the best. Only when we go into Boston, where only 15% of the DMA's population lives. You really don't gain that much and the Pru advantage shrinks a little with each passing year.