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MOR vs. Adult Contemporary
- Thread starter new_friends_gr
- Start date
Prais said:
If the playlist was extended to include at least 2,000 titles, it could have greater potential (I even think that 2,000 is a bit lame). If your format is to really be successful, you MUST give enough reason to for people to tune you in. This is especially true if your station is on AM. I think that some things are too heavily researched and that sometimes one has to go with his/her guts on things. I think if a station was to play a not-so familiar song by an artist that has some viability, it could be a good thing. Also, it would be good to add appropriate music by modern artists. I don't know how many affiliates W1 has with that format, but I imagine that few are in major urban areas.
Klutch said,
If the playlist was extended to include at least 2,000 titles, it could have greater potential (I even think that 2,000 is a bit lame). If your format is to really be successful, you MUST give enough reason to for people to tune you in. This is especially true if your station is on AM. I think that some things are too heavily researched and that sometimes one has to go with his/her guts on things. I think if a station was to play a not-so familiar song by an artist that has some viability, it could be a good thing. Also, it would be good to add appropriate music by modern artists. I don't know how many affiliates W1 has with that format, but I imagine that few are in major urban areas.
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How do you know about what would bring "greater potential?" How do you know it is "over researched?" There are REASONS for EVERY song, and many good reasons for what NOT to play.
I get the idea you have NOT personally listened to the format. I've been very involved in it for over 10 years.
Add in the Christmas music, and "special stuff" and it's probably 1100 songs.
Because of the "brilliance" (smart) way it's programmed - 800 is PLENTY. There are PLENTY of reaons to "tune in"Don't criticize until you listen.
"Going by your gut" is ok, unless you have "the wrong gut."
Perry Como has recorded everything he is going to record. He's dead. WHY would you play (say) "The Father of Girls" (except maybe on Father's Day) or Como's Moon River, when there are BETTER songs
by Como and BETTER versions (like the HUGE hit by Andy Williams or Henry Mancini) of "Moon River?
"Better" is certainly a matter of TASTE, but the format, it's selections and presentation have been WELL PROVEN -a ratings and commercial
success for around 20 years, and survivor of several music syndicator owners. There are quite a few "newer artists" sprinkled in this format NOW (but don't talk too loud about this while vchimpanzee is around-he hates that).
With respect, What are YOUR qualifications for changing any of this? (jut askin") Im NOT trying to be a "wise guy" but WHY fix what is NOT broken?
If the playlist was extended to include at least 2,000 titles, it could have greater potential (I even think that 2,000 is a bit lame). If your format is to really be successful, you MUST give enough reason to for people to tune you in. This is especially true if your station is on AM. I think that some things are too heavily researched and that sometimes one has to go with his/her guts on things. I think if a station was to play a not-so familiar song by an artist that has some viability, it could be a good thing. Also, it would be good to add appropriate music by modern artists. I don't know how many affiliates W1 has with that format, but I imagine that few are in major urban areas.
_______
How do you know about what would bring "greater potential?" How do you know it is "over researched?" There are REASONS for EVERY song, and many good reasons for what NOT to play.
I get the idea you have NOT personally listened to the format. I've been very involved in it for over 10 years.
Add in the Christmas music, and "special stuff" and it's probably 1100 songs.
Because of the "brilliance" (smart) way it's programmed - 800 is PLENTY. There are PLENTY of reaons to "tune in"Don't criticize until you listen.
"Going by your gut" is ok, unless you have "the wrong gut."
Perry Como has recorded everything he is going to record. He's dead. WHY would you play (say) "The Father of Girls" (except maybe on Father's Day) or Como's Moon River, when there are BETTER songs
by Como and BETTER versions (like the HUGE hit by Andy Williams or Henry Mancini) of "Moon River?
"Better" is certainly a matter of TASTE, but the format, it's selections and presentation have been WELL PROVEN -a ratings and commercial
success for around 20 years, and survivor of several music syndicator owners. There are quite a few "newer artists" sprinkled in this format NOW (but don't talk too loud about this while vchimpanzee is around-he hates that).
With respect, What are YOUR qualifications for changing any of this? (jut askin") Im NOT trying to be a "wise guy" but WHY fix what is NOT broken?
Prais said:
I feel that there are songs out there which have for whatever reasons gotten 'lost in the shuffle'. There are many reasons as to why this is, but if the sole reason is because a given record was not a big enough hit, I feel that's a little too lame. I'll elaborate on this below.
Prais said:
That is correct, I haven't. There isn't an affiliate near where I live (Baltimore/Washington area).
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most of the crooners like Como, Sinatra, Fisher, Martin and the like; when they came out with an album, wasn't it almost always a compilation of hits (unless it was a movie soundtrack)? There weren't too many obscure 'album cuts' as there were in the times which followed. Moreover, weren't B-sides of singles more often hits than not in those days?Prais said:
There are many artists out there who's music is respected by a good number of people. With those artists, I feel it's possible to play songs by them that while they may not be their biggest hits, still have some viability. For example, John Denver's first Greatest Hits album which covered the years from 1969 to late 1973 in addition to featuring his three top-40 hits from that album and period, also featured some songs which could be played on a modern-day MOR including "Poems, Prayers and Promises", "Follow Me" and "I Guess He'd Rather Be In Colorado". Elton John's first Greatest Hits album featured "Border Song" which could work; also his songs "Friends", "Harmony", "Candle In The Wind" and "In Neon" might work. All of The Carpenters top-40 pop hits with the possible exception of "Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft" should be appropriate and you could argue that some of their lesser known recordings could also work. With Petula Clark, I can't see why you couldn't play "Color My World" (a song which could be described as a great 'mood-lifter' - for lack of a better term) as well as some of her lesser known hits. I could go on.
I realize that the audience for MOR or standards (or whatever moniker you wish to use) is becoming a tough sell. Let's not also forget that there are people who are willing to listen to something innovative, are tired of the same-old same-old and wouldn't mind being 'wowed' when they hear a song that they haven't heard in forever or whatnot. There might also be those who want an alternative to what's on mainstream FM stations. That said, you have to have an innovative and diverse playlist in order to keep your audience. If you're on AM it is even more critical as you've got to have people who are willing to flip that band switch over!
This is more or less what I've been talking about. The only thing is that I feel that some of the personalities talked a little too much. I remember hearing WMAL and felt that they were too personality driven for their own good. I did like Tom Gauger but felt Frank Harden, Jack Weaver, Bill Trumbull and Chris Core were all quite stale. Granted, I wasn't the target audience (I'm 45 now) so that's part of it; but I felt there were better examples of that format including WBAL Baltimore.Mike Sheridan said:
BTW, what in heaven's name is a 'contemprary oldie?' that sounds like a contradiction in terms!
C
cd637299
Guest
"Contemporary oldie" is like that gimmick that Nick @ Nite once had on TV....as they specialize in reruns, they put on a first-run series called "Hi Honey, I'm Home" which ran simultaneously (same episode) on ABC on Friday night, making it an "instant rerun"!
cd
cd
Realize that "Standards" and "MOR" are 2 different things. MOR has the stuff Klutch was describing, with the "Billboard easy listening chart" "deeper" album cuts and "b" sides" and "Standards" are HITS from the 40's/50's/60's.
"Adult Standards" satellite format is standards as described above and "easy listening hits" from the 70's til now."
You guys that kvetch about playing 3 dog night and Journey should eye the Billboard easy Listening Chart. Adult Standards uses their auditorium surve results. "Selector" can mash it all up so it goes to an average bpm - and sorts a few other categories so it all comes together.
Actually, I'm not sure if that EL chart still exists, but back in the day, it was rocking quite a bit. I've abandoned Billboard because of the CERTAIN PAYOLA that has been ongoing there for years.
"Adult Standards" satellite format is standards as described above and "easy listening hits" from the 70's til now."
You guys that kvetch about playing 3 dog night and Journey should eye the Billboard easy Listening Chart. Adult Standards uses their auditorium surve results. "Selector" can mash it all up so it goes to an average bpm - and sorts a few other categories so it all comes together.
Actually, I'm not sure if that EL chart still exists, but back in the day, it was rocking quite a bit. I've abandoned Billboard because of the CERTAIN PAYOLA that has been ongoing there for years.
C
cd637299
Guest
Prais said:
Or,
If you can find Joel Whitburn's "Adult Contemporary 1961-1993" book, you'll see how "MOR" has evolved over the years. One of the off-sections says, "From Mantovani to Madonna....."
Three Dog Night had a few entries in the Billboard EZ chart, including "Never Been to Spain" (!).
Also a letter to the editor in Billboard in early '82 was (I believe) from a PD at an "AC" station, talking about how Journey made it (at the time with "Who's Crying Now"), and added "we're adding Foreigner this week" or something.
Basically the Billboard EZ chart was the lighter side of the Hot 100, not much more. There were indeed entries that didn't make the Hot 100 (actually there were two EZ #1's that never charted Hot 100, including John Gary's "Cold" which spent 2 weeks at #1, and I have never heard it).
That being said, music on radio has been more narrow in style over the years. Easily on top 40 stations back in the day, Perry Como, Carpenters, Engelbert et al. were played too. But today, you won't hear mellower stuff on what is now "CHR".
As to modern charts, Billboard still has the Adult chart, but few songs are even added IMO, and often, songs over one year old are still on the chart!
cd
C
cd637299
Guest
I remember the change, as I would read BB in the library weekly. Early 1980 I believe it was, where the change took place.
I remember my parents driving thru Windsor & Detroit in summer 1975....I was taping CKLW for myself, and hearing "The Last Farewell" by Roger Whittaker's intro despite the top-40-style DJ. It peaked #19 Hot 100 in the US; but none of our Top 40's in Miami touched it. I guess you could say that Miami was ahead of its time, DESPITE being practically the last city to hear newer songs!
cd
I remember my parents driving thru Windsor & Detroit in summer 1975....I was taping CKLW for myself, and hearing "The Last Farewell" by Roger Whittaker's intro despite the top-40-style DJ. It peaked #19 Hot 100 in the US; but none of our Top 40's in Miami touched it. I guess you could say that Miami was ahead of its time, DESPITE being practically the last city to hear newer songs!
cd
San Francisco's KSFO, in its 'classic' era (mid-50s through early 80s, owned by Gene Autry's Golden West Broadcasting, with studios in the Fairmont Hotel) was one of the best examples of the 'MOR' format, though they preferred to emphasize their 'full service' programming, and 'personalities' of their on-air talent(notably Don Sherwood, Jim Lange and Al 'Jazzbeaux' Collins, later Dan Sorkin, Jack Carney, Gene Nelson and Russ 'The Moose' Syracuse,among many others).
At times in the late '70s, their music had a somewhat more contemporary sound, but not enough to be what was later called 'Adult Contemporary'. When the station was sold (to King Broadcasting) in late '83, the musical emphasis changed to something that might have been called 'adult standards' nowadays; there was more emphasis on then-new singles by Anne Murray, Barry Manilow, Jack Jones, and other artists who sort of straddled the genres of 'light rock' and 'adult pop', mixed in with older singles by many of the same people, and the occasional big-band or '50s/60s rock oldie.
This was sort of a transitional period before KSFO switched to rock and roll oldies in the summer of '86, (eventually simulcasting with sister station KYA, which had flipped from Top 40 in 1979,leaving what was by then known as 'adult standards' to KFRC, which flipped formats a month after KSFO).
At times in the late '70s, their music had a somewhat more contemporary sound, but not enough to be what was later called 'Adult Contemporary'. When the station was sold (to King Broadcasting) in late '83, the musical emphasis changed to something that might have been called 'adult standards' nowadays; there was more emphasis on then-new singles by Anne Murray, Barry Manilow, Jack Jones, and other artists who sort of straddled the genres of 'light rock' and 'adult pop', mixed in with older singles by many of the same people, and the occasional big-band or '50s/60s rock oldie.
This was sort of a transitional period before KSFO switched to rock and roll oldies in the summer of '86, (eventually simulcasting with sister station KYA, which had flipped from Top 40 in 1979,leaving what was by then known as 'adult standards' to KFRC, which flipped formats a month after KSFO).
Something similar happened in Charlotte, N.C. in 1981. The newspaper described the new format of WSOC-AM as "middle of the road". I had seen the term used for stations that were essentially adult contemporary, though that term was being used for stations that were really top 40.onairb said:
When I actually heard the station, it was very much like what Stardust was doing in the early 90s. Some big bands, some vocal standards, and some songs that were currently or recently popular. Actually, when Stardust did them, the songs weren't new any more but more like ten or twenty years old, but you get the idea.
Big band had been done on several area stations, but it was more like Music of Your Life in its early days. Later, Stardust and Music of Your Life both did formats that weren't called adult standards but nostalgia. I'm not sure when the term adult standards was invented, but it would have fit WSOC. The newspaper, when it listed radio stations, put WSOC under "Adult middle-of-the-road". But like I said, even the two top 40 stations were under "Adult contemporary". And one of them would be called hot adult contemporary today, because their commercials emphasized how pleasant they were compared to the hard rock on the other station. In fact, nearly all of the music that station played is on mainstream adult contemporary radio now.
WSOC ended up like Timeless Favorites and then changed completley. I knew something was wrong when I heard "Hard Day's Night" by The Beatles.
Rod Stewart has done a version of "Just My Imagination".klutch00 said:
There hasn't really been a feud the past couple of years, unless you mean the programming department got its way more so than in the years 2001-06.Prais said:
Something similar happened in Charlotte, N.C. in 1981. The newspaper described the new format of WSOC-AM as "middle of the road". I had seen the term used for stations that were essentially adult contemporary, though that term was being used for stations that were really top 40.
[/quote]
Since I was at WSOC-AM from 1981-1985 I can shed some light on the subject from the inside.
WSOC 930 then owned by Cox used the TM productions format called TMOR. Instead of Middle Of The Road it was all over the road. Everything from big bands to the Supremes. We had 4 automation reels down the hall and used the Schaffer 903 system in live assist mode. The TMOR format was very unfocused from song to song it sounded a bit like you were listening to different stations.
Management must have agreed because a little later we tried the Toby Arnold "Unforgettable" format. It skewed a little older in focus but it was better targeted in terms of the artists and songs. I don't have any evidence but I have a feeling this was when WSOC was at it's best musically.
I guess the powers at Cox were still not pleased with the results (funny the overall numbers we had back then look pretty good today but then the market has a lot more signals than it did then) so former WBT PD Andy Bickel came in as a consultant and the music was changed again. We came off the reels and all the music was on cart. The station leaned in an A/C Oldies direction, right into the path of WBT without the currents.
Lots of people were dismayed when WSOC gave up the all news and news/talk formats to go back to music. The lady at the unemployment office said "Well that station never could figure out what it wanted to do". We had an identity problem between the successful WSOC-FM and WSOC-TV. People were unsure what was on the AM.
I'm glad I was there though!
[/quote]
Since I was at WSOC-AM from 1981-1985 I can shed some light on the subject from the inside.
WSOC 930 then owned by Cox used the TM productions format called TMOR. Instead of Middle Of The Road it was all over the road. Everything from big bands to the Supremes. We had 4 automation reels down the hall and used the Schaffer 903 system in live assist mode. The TMOR format was very unfocused from song to song it sounded a bit like you were listening to different stations.
Management must have agreed because a little later we tried the Toby Arnold "Unforgettable" format. It skewed a little older in focus but it was better targeted in terms of the artists and songs. I don't have any evidence but I have a feeling this was when WSOC was at it's best musically.
I guess the powers at Cox were still not pleased with the results (funny the overall numbers we had back then look pretty good today but then the market has a lot more signals than it did then) so former WBT PD Andy Bickel came in as a consultant and the music was changed again. We came off the reels and all the music was on cart. The station leaned in an A/C Oldies direction, right into the path of WBT without the currents.
Lots of people were dismayed when WSOC gave up the all news and news/talk formats to go back to music. The lady at the unemployment office said "Well that station never could figure out what it wanted to do". We had an identity problem between the successful WSOC-FM and WSOC-TV. People were unsure what was on the AM.
I'm glad I was there though!
Tonight for the hell of it I sampled WROW and was impressed with the variety. This is probably the closest example as to what I think would be an ideal MOR for today.
http://albanymagic.com/
I wonder how well they're doing now?
http://albanymagic.com/
I wonder how well they're doing now?
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