More Pacifica drama...KPFT impact?

[KTN Corp]

I've always said that either KPFT should secede from Pacifica (and run away from this ongoing drama), or Pacifica should dump the lossy East Coast stations and focus on California and (expanding in) Texas. The East Coast is different politically and culturally from the West Coast, so Pacifica's West Coast style isn't very conducive to the East Coast mannerisms.

Texas has proven amenable to Pacifica's West Coast sensibilities, because of its location in Middle America and has influences from both coasts. It's great that KPFT is a Houston-exclusive, but it needs to expand to the I-35 corridor of the Texas Triangle to broadcast to a wider audience. I would imagine that the radio stations would be (hopefully full-power non-commercial licensees) satellites simulcasting KPFT at first, and then introduce local programs as they transition to fully independent operations.

 

[TheBigA]

The East Coast is different politically and culturally from the West Coast, so Pacifica's West Coast style isn't very conducive to the East Coast mannerisms.

Culturally yes, but politically no. The financial problems of WBAI have nothing to do with being on the east coast.

They have more to do with inept management and terrible programming.

 

[davideduardo]

Texas has proven amenable to Pacifica's West Coast sensibilities, because of its location in Middle America and has influences from both coasts. It's great that KPFT is a Houston-exclusive, but it needs to expand to the I-35 corridor of the Texas Triangle to broadcast to a wider audience. I would imagine that the radio stations would be (hopefully full-power non-commercial licensees) satellites simulcasting KPFT at first, and then introduce local programs as they transition to fully independent operations.

Pacifica can not finance its operations in the most liberal metropolitan areas in America. They certainly are not going to "make it work" in less progressive areas.

Over the last three years, KPFT has averaged between 0 and 1000 average quarter hour persons (a rating of 0.0 to 0.0). That compares to a total of 120,000 persons average audience size for the top 5 radio stations alone.

 

[Mediafrog+]

It's great that KPFT is a Houston-exclusive, but it needs to expand to the I-35 corridor of the Texas Triangle to broadcast to a wider audience. I would imagine that the radio stations would be (hopefully full-power non-commercial licensees) satellites simulcasting KPFT at first, and then introduce local programs as they transition to fully independent operations.

Thing is, Austin and DFW already have stations that are serving the same purpose as KPFT, with an eclectic mix of community oriented and produced programming.

DFW has KNON, whose history goes back to its beginnings as KCHU in 1975. And Austin has KOOP, which has been on the air since 1994.

Adding more stations in mid to large size Texas cities would be difficult as the non-comm section of the FM band is pretty much full.

 

[BamaTX]

Thing is, Austin and DFW already have stations that are serving the same purpose as KPFT, with an eclectic mix of community oriented and produced programming.

DFW has KNON, whose history goes back to its beginnings as KCHU in 1975. And Austin has KOOP, which has been on the air since 1994.

Adding more stations in mid to large size Texas cities would be difficult as the non-comm section of the FM band is pretty much full.

Even the College Station area, which has one of the most conservative schools in the country, has KEOS.

 

[KTN Corp]

The financial problems of WBAI have nothing to do with being on the east coast.

The principle of overextension in strategic management applies in this case. The NY and DC stations are across the continent and 3 timezones ahead. Management is hard because the Local Station Board meeting is always held at HQ in Berkeley.

Pacifica can not finance its operations in the most liberal metropolitan areas in America. They certainly are not going to "make it work" in less progressive areas.

Over the last three years, KPFT has averaged between 0 and 1000 average quarter hour persons (a rating of 0.0 to 0.0). That compares to a total of 120,000 persons average audience size for the top 5 radio stations alone.

David, you are a respected broadcaster in the commercial world. But non-comm is a much different mindset that doesn't depend on ratings and advertiser buys. Non-comm radio is on a much different spectrum, serving the community with formats (and according to KPFT, "voices") neglected by the commercial stations (which is true for NPR member stations as well, like Classical 24 on KUHF HD-2).

John is also a respected broadcaster, but it's hard for radio/TV people to get out of the commercial mindset emphasizing ratings and accepting the reality in Non-comm when examining the non-profit side of broadcasting. I bet it was hard for Shumate to transition from KHOU to the HPM TV/radio cluster for the first few years due to acclimating into the different mindset. Changing the mindset from fanatically obsessing about ratings and satisfying advertisers, to fundraising and service when transitioning from commercial to non-comm, takes time.

The only ratings KPFT and non-comm TV/FM stations care about are the dollar$$ flowing in from listeners/viewers during fundraising. KPFT is still in the black, which is all that the station cares about. Bruce used to wonder how KHCB stayed afloat with their "boring" word (preaching) format appealing to the "elderly", compared to CCM youth-oriented KSBJ. This is why. People vote with their dollars in the grassroots fashion.

A decade ago, if TBN and Daystar were for-profit, they could have gotten rid of their terrestrial TV stations to cut costs since everybody is now on cable/satellite. After a recession and cord-cutting, getting rid of the TV stations would have been fatal.

Thing is, Austin and DFW already have stations that are serving the same purpose as KPFT, with an eclectic mix of community oriented and produced programming.

Pacifica is the only sizable competition to NPR (amid the incest with APM, PRI, and PRX). They have occasional scheduled coast-to-coast network programs, such as State of the Union coverage and the Pacifica Archives fundraiser.

Pacifica Affiliates have access to programs like The Prison Show in the exchange, but the Pacifica Stations (o&os) only have access to the occasional network transmissions. (These are the official terms!)

Commercial news radio is non-existent in the U.S., with the exception of the few markets with legacy-CBS all news AMs. Here in Houston, most posters would call KTRH Newsradio branding a misnomer!

 

[TheBigA]

The principle of overextension in strategic management applies in this case. The NY and DC stations are across the continent and 3 timezones ahead. Management is hard because the Local Station Board meeting is always held at HQ in Berkeley.

Not sure what you mean. The recent issue with WBAI identified their local station board meetings were in Brooklyn, and their local board has seats on the national board, which is in Berkeley.

 

[b-turner]

I have to disagree with KTN Corp on one statement. Ratings, while they don't matter, listeners do. The key to revenue is listeners giving to the station...the fewer that listen, the fewer the donations and the more minimal the revenue to pay the bills. If 1 in 15 donate an average of $150 per year, then you need a substantial listener base to support a station. Grants help but usually are the icing on the cake.

 

[davideduardo]

David, you are a respected broadcaster in the commercial world. But non-comm is a much different mindset that doesn't depend on ratings and advertiser buys. Non-comm radio is on a much different spectrum, serving the community with formats (and according to KPFT, "voices") neglected by the commercial stations (which is true for NPR member stations as well, like Classical 24 on KUHF HD-2).

Actually, some of my best experiences in the industry have been with non-commercial stations for the Catholic Church in various nations in Latin America.

The difference between commercial stations and non-commercial ones is not "serving neglected audiences" but serving specific audiences that align with the owners and organizers of non-profit stations.

I found, when working with the Cardinal in Peru, for example, that non-commercial stations often have the problem of preaching to the choir rather than trying to also reach marginal listeners who could be brought in with programming that is both interesting and entertaining as well as covering the station operator's agenda. This resulted in considerably broader appeal of the AM and FM stations we operated.

The problem with Pacifica's is that it always focused on a very limited core. Most don't know that the organization's name is not a reference to the ocean, but to anti-war and anti-international involvement or "peace". As the world changed, the stations were never as focused as in the first decade or so.

Changing the mindset from fanatically obsessing about ratings and satisfying advertisers, to fundraising and service when transitioning from commercial to non-comm, takes time.

Knowing the size of the audience and the appeal of different programs is equally important to both commercial and non-commercial stations.

Unless a non-commercial station has enough listeners to support its particular goals and objectives, it will not survive. Aside from the perpetual internal turmoil at Pacifica, its real issue is not having enough listeners to support its efforts.

The only ratings KPFT and non-comm TV/FM stations care about are the dollar$$ flowing in from listeners/viewers during fundraising.

But if you don't have enough listeners, the donations will not be adequate. One particularly important aspect of ratings for non-coms is knowing if certain hosts, shows or features are helping or hindering.

Pacifica is the only sizable competition to NPR (amid the incest with APM, PRI, and PRX). They have occasional scheduled coast-to-coast network programs, such as State of the Union coverage and the Pacifica Archives fundraiser.

Pacifica is only in a few markets. NPR is essentially a national service. This statement is like comparing a flea with an elephant, particularly if audience size is compared.

Commercial news radio is non-existent in the U.S., with the exception of the few markets with legacy-CBS all news AMs. Here in Houston, most posters would call KTRH Newsradio branding a misnomer!

Several of the more significant all-news stations such as WTOP are not legacy CBS stations. Of course, the whole group of former Westinghouse all-newsers does not have CBS heritage, either.

 

[TheBigA]

Pacifica is only in a few markets. NPR is essentially a national service.

Pacifica Foundation owns stations in a few markets. But the Pacifica Network offers programming to community stations nationally:

https://pacificanetwork.org/missionandgoals/

This is the programming the Foundation put on WBAI during the period when they shut down local programming. Of course, the network stations are smaller and have less audience than NPR stations. But there is more to Pacifica than the five stations it owns.

 

[davideduardo]

Pacifica Foundation owns stations in a few markets. But the Pacifica Network offers programming to community stations nationally:

https://pacificanetwork.org/missionandgoals/

This is the programming the Foundation put on WBAI during the period when they shut down local programming. Of course, the network stations are smaller and have less audience than NPR stations. But there is more to Pacifica than the five stations it owns.

I'm familiar with that. But the distribution is more on a program basis that a format basis.

I can't think of any stations that carry the Pacifica Network shows that use more than a few hours of them, as opposed to the considerable and dominant content of NPR on its affiliated stations. But, as a caveat, I'll mention that I don't follow Pacifica closely as it is so shallow in listenership that it's just not of interest any more.

I do have two, er, three anecdotes that may to some extent jade my feeling about Pacifica: First, many years ago I was in the station vehicle we used to access the Mt Wilson KLVE transmitter (I was Chief Operator several times during transitions between engineers) and on the way back from a mountain expedition, we stopped at a favorite Chinese restaurant that was next to the Pacifica LA studios and offices. I parked in the street at a normal metered location which was, coincidentally, in front of KPFK.

When I came out of the restaurant, a person in the KPFK parking lot came up and ranted to me about driving a big fuel consuming and polluting vehicle; he screamed so insanely and loudly I could not respond so I just drove off. But I got a pretty good idea about the obsessive perspective of at least some of the staff.

In another case, I was scanning the dial and came across Spanish on KPFK. It was a show hosted by two Central Americans and they were vividly advocating the armed assassination of the elected presidents of Honduras and El Salvador. And I do not mean "opposition". I mean "shooting to death".

That gave me some perspective of how Pacifica would allow rather extreme perspectives including those that were violent and anti-social. There is a Spanish saying, "tell me who you travel with and I'll tell you who you are". Well, Pacifica associated with people calling for murder and assassination. That is who they were.

And finally, at one point Pacifica wanted to do a repeater on 107.5 in northern San Diego County where the LA signal was bad due to terrain. I put together an opposition, based on signed notes from KLVE listeners in that area, indicating that use of 107.5 would deprive an area with minimal Spanish language service of one good signal.

I got a call from someone at Pacifica when we filed, and most of the language was not repeatable. About the nicest thing I was called was a "repressive capitalist". One thing I had learned from years of talk radio programming was to not argue... just acknowledge. After several minutes of insults and not real response from me, the guy just hung up with a few final profanities.

And in 61 years in broadcasting, I have never had anything even comparable come from another local station anywhere.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I'm familiar with that. But the distribution is more on a program basis that a format basis.

I can't think of any stations that carry the Pacifica Network shows that use more than a few hours of them, as opposed to the considerable and dominant content of NPR on its affiliated stations. But, as a caveat, I'll mention that I don't follow Pacifica closely as it is so shallow in listenership that it's just not of interest any more.

I do have two anecdotes that may to some extent jade my feeling about Pacifica: First, many years ago I was in the station vehicle we used to access the Mt Wilson KLVE transmitter (I was Chief Operator several times during transitions between engineers) and on the way back from a mountain expedition, we stopped at a favorite Chinese restaurant that was next to the Pacifica LA studios and offices. I parked in the street at a normal metered location which was, coincidentally, in front of KPFK.

When I came out of the restaurant, a person in the KPFK parking lot came up and ranted to me about driving a big fuel consuming and polluting vehicle; he screamed so insanely and loudly I could not respond so I just drove off. But I got a pretty good idea about the obsessive perspective of at least some of the staff.

In another case, I was scanning the dial and came across Spanish on KPFK. It was a show hosted by two Central Americans and they were vividly advocating the armed assassination of the elected presidents of Honduras and El Salvador. And I do not mean "opposition". I mean "shooting to death".

That gave me some perspective of how Pacifica would allow rather extreme perspectives including those that were violent and anti-social. There is a Spanish saying, "tell me who you travel with and I'll tell you who you are". Well, Pacifica associated with people calling for murder and assassination. That is who they were.

And finally, at one point Pacifica wanted to do a repeater on 107.5 in northern San Diego County where the LA signal was bad due to terrain. I put together an opposition, based on signed notes from KLVE listeners in that area, indicating that use of 107.5 would deprive an area with minimal Spanish language service of one good signal.

I got a call from someone at Pacifica when we filed, and most of the language was not repeatable. About the nicest thing I was called was a "repressive capitalist". One thing I had learned from years of talk radio programming was to not argue... just acknowledge. After several minutes of insults and not real response from me, the guy just hung up with a few final profanities.

And in 61 years in broadcasting, I have never had anything even comparable come from another local station anywhere.

You have further confirmed what a lot of us think David.. theyre delusional and living in their own world

 

[BamaTX]

I got a call from someone at Pacifica when we filed, and most of the language was not repeatable. About the nicest thing I was called was a "repressive capitalist".

Wow. KPFT is a weird little station in its own right. A few years ago, I got the opportunity to get a good listen to their programming (not by choice, may I add). Within 30 minutes, I figured half of their staff had to be communist supporting, anti-religion socialist college kids going through a phase. The image of a stereotypical liberal arts major who is pissed off at the "man" and is in debt is all I could think of as I listened to the ramblings of a mad hippie.

But then last year while scanning the band, I heard a "Chicano" show (that's the best description I can come up with) that was doing live prison shout-outs, bilingual Christian prayers, and playing tejano music between segments. Quite the polar opposite from what I had heard years earlier. From Che Guevara to Tex Mex Polkas!

 

[Miss Tuned]

Wow. KPFT is a weird little station in its own right. A few years ago, I got the opportunity to get a good listen to their programming (not by choice, may I add). Within 30 minutes, I figured half of their staff had to be communist supporting, anti-religion socialist college kids going through a phase. The image of a stereotypical liberal arts major who is pissed off at the "man" and is in debt is all I could think of as I listened to the ramblings of a mad hippie.

But then last year while scanning the band, I heard a "Chicano" show (that's the best description I can come up with) that was doing live prison shout-outs, bilingual Christian prayers, and playing tejano music between segments. Quite the polar opposite from what I had heard years earlier. From Che Guevara to Tex Mex Polkas!

The station sounds disjointed because, like all the Pacifica stations, it's made up mostly of independent program producers each contributing just their show and little else. You might as well put a rotation of independent podcasts on the air. It might have worked in the 1980s and early 1990s when it was a struggle to get information about e.g. left-wing politics or LGBTQ issues and your little community's little hour was something you'd make an appointment to tune in to, but given that we can all listen to podcasts on demand on our computers and smartphones these days then I'm struggling to see the point of a station like this.

 

[TheBigA]

The station sounds disjointed because, like all the Pacifica stations, it's made up mostly of independent program producers each contributing just their show and little else.

This is exactly right, and it contributes to why these stations have so much trouble raising money. Many years ago, a non-com research group recommended having a unified approach to formatting. This is what ultimately killed off block programming at NPR stations. Apparently Pacifica isn't interested in that approach. What you hear is somewhere between democracy and anarchy, not unlike a typical college station. They need a more organized approach if they want to succeed, but the Pacifica culture keeps getting in the way.

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

The one thing that has concerned me with Pacifica is not so much financial solvency or erratic programming, but the absolute lack of any "new blood". They are graying much faster than radio as a whole.

Look at any pictures taken of station meetings/events/etc., you'll find 90% or more over the age to join AARP. A large majority appear to have never gotten the memo that the protests from their early adulthood in the 60's are over. Not hating on anybody at that age, but there will be a time in the next 10 or so years when a lot of these folks at a lot of these Pacifica stations will be either unable physically to continue these programs or will simply pass away. Not all, but a large portion.

What then?

 

[TheBigA]

Look at any pictures taken of station meetings/events/etc., you'll find 90% or more over the age to join AARP. A large majority appear to have never gotten the memo that the protests from their early adulthood in the 60's are over.

That's a problem for most of talk radio in general. The idea of using radio as a tool for "social change" is a boomer phenomenon. Younger generations have other tools and platforms to accomplish the same thing. However, I noticed a lot of millennials among the program creators at WBAI during their recent battle. These are people who understand the interaction between radio and social media. There was a lot of communication from those people to their audience via social media and the internet during the period when the Foundation had taken over the WBAI air signal and web site. There was a counter-revolution taking place on Twitter. That was mainly coming from the next generation. It may not be evident in Houston, but I definitely saw it in NYC.

 

[Miss Tuned]

That's a problem for most of talk radio in general. The idea of using radio as a tool for "social change" is a boomer phenomenon. Younger generations have other tools and platforms to accomplish the same thing. However, I noticed a lot of millennials among the program creators at WBAI during their recent battle. These are people who understand the interaction between radio and social media. There was a lot of communication from those people to their audience via social media and the internet during the period when the Foundation had taken over the WBAI air signal and web site. There was a counter-revolution taking place on Twitter. That was mainly coming from the next generation. It may not be evident in Houston, but I definitely saw it in NYC.

Without wishing to get into political discussion, I believe there is still a space for radical radio, but it has to be done well. The current Pacifica approach leads to no listeners, no pledges and constant funding issues putting the whole network at risk. The network is a wasted opportunity - high-powered signals in major markets putting programming out that's of interest to listeners in the low three figures in many cases. These signals are multi-million dollar assets, especially WBAI in the commercial band, and they're broadcasting to nobody. WBAI in particular is full of snake-oil salespeople hawking questionable health supplements and similar.

If you want people to actually listen to the message you're putting across, you have to do it on a station that sounds good and that people are going to want to listen to, and that means having some stationality rather than a mish-mash of completely different programming all day long. I don't think Pacifica are capable of doing that, so these stations are simply going to stagger on in chaos for another 12 months and then get sold off to whichever Christian broadcaster can afford them.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't think Pacifica are capable of doing that, so these stations are simply going to stagger on in chaos for another 12 months and then get sold off to whichever Christian broadcaster can afford them.

The ownership is in so much disarray, there is no one with the authority to actually sign off on a sale.

Is someone sold a station, another part of the group would dispute it.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Without wishing to get into political discussion, I believe there is still a space for radical radio, but it has to be done well. The current Pacifica approach leads to no listeners, no pledges and constant funding issues putting the whole network at risk. The network is a wasted opportunity - high-powered signals in major markets putting programming out that's of interest to listeners in the low three figures in many cases. These signals are multi-million dollar assets, especially WBAI in the commercial band, and they're broadcasting to nobody. WBAI in particular is full of snake-oil salespeople hawking questionable health supplements and similar.

If you want people to actually listen to the message you're putting across, you have to do it on a station that sounds good and that people are going to want to listen to, and that means having some stationality rather than a mish-mash of completely different programming all day long. I don't think Pacifica are capable of doing that, so these stations are simply going to stagger on in chaos for another 12 months and then get sold off to whichever Christian broadcaster can afford them.

KPFA 94.1 FM is on the Commercial band on FM too. and yes Pacifica in general is in disarray for decades.