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More problems for in dash IBOC radios

K

KB1OKL

The volume doubles on these Subaru radios when it locks in and then drops out many times (of course) in a 15 minute ride just about giving poor Grandma a heart attack. This adds one more problem to the already huge pile of problems with HD Radio (TM).


"After getting complaints from a relative, Saga Portland chief engineer Andy Armstrong experienced the glitch firsthand while driving 25 to 30 miles from the transmitter of a Class B station. “As HD comes in and out, the level disparity is huge — it makes the station unlistenable,” he says." From Inside Radio.

more at:


http://www.insideradio.com//Article.asp?id=2669064&spid=32061#.UcyKR6zxrcs
 
KB1OKL said:
...about giving poor Grandma a heart attack.
Click to expand...
Better than what happened with those reindeer on Christmas eve!
 
Perhaps it depends upon the quality of the radio itself. I have only experienced HD drop-outs a very few times but the change in volume between IBOC and analog FM was imperceptible, if any.
 
I assume Andy knows that you have to set the levels of the audio going in to the exporter (for the simulcast HD stream). If that isn't done right, of course, it can be too low, or too high. Did he listen to other HD stations around Portland Maine? Do they all sound the same? Did he listen with an HD radio from a different OEM? Has he listened anywhere else, like Boston?

That's an article by someone who knows absolutely nothing about HD radio transmission.
 
What about the quotes from an experienced radio CE, confirming a condition reported to him by a third person? I suppose both of them just made up this phenomenon? How do you know what the author knows, or doesn't know?
 
Any "new" radio design can have any imaginable glitch.

I've never encountered it before either.
But I have seen A/D ranges and other scaled data behave the same in other scenarios of data connectivity "issues".

I suppose it would be helpful to find out whether there are any new receiver chips just getting into circulation.
 
Most any station should have an HD capable mod monitor which would eliminate the problem being related to the station's engineering. I use a DaySequerra M2 for contract work and it allows dialing levels in without much fuss.
 
The audio levels are supposed to be matched between the analog and digital signals on an HD Radio, but the digital signal is given 5 dB of extra headroom over the analog signal, to allow less aggressive processing to be used on the digital signal while matching the analog signal's loudness.

However I have noticed that some HD stations use this extra headroom to make their digital signal noticeably louder than their analog signal, perhaps thinking that this extra loudness will be more attention-grabbing to the listener. What they don't realize is that this difference in loudness will drive the listener nuts when they drive in a spotty signal coverage area, and their HD car radio keeps getting louder and quieter as it switches back and forth between analog and digital! :mad:

Also many HD FM stations don't keep the audio levels matched between their HD subchannels. I have noticed some HD2 / HD3 subchannels which are much louder than the HD1, while some are much quieter, to the point that you have to crank up the volume to hear them.
 
All i can say is that there have been a multitude of problems with IBOC, both AM and FM since it's inception, obviously there is a basic problem with transmitting and receiving it. I have seen many IBOC apologists post here what they think is wrong with every problem that has come along a multitude of times, how long does this unfinished science project have to go on before it is declared dead?
 
KB1OKL said:
... how long does this unfinished science project have to go on before it is declared dead?
Click to expand...

Until the last radio station pulls the plug on it or until iBiquity runs out of money.
 
brian.marchand said:
I only listen to HD 2 or 3 sub-channel stations in my car in central Illinois and Saint Louis and never have any dropouts.
Click to expand...

Quick! Call the Guiness records folks!
 
landtuna said:
Until the last radio station pulls the plug on it or until iBiquity runs out of money.
Click to expand...
iBiquity would still make money through HD stations using their digital streams for data services, such as Garmin's "HD traffic".
 
satech said:
landtuna said:
Until the last radio station pulls the plug on it or until iBiquity runs out of money.
Click to expand...
iBiquity would still make money through HD stations using their digital streams for data services, such as Garmin's "HD traffic".
Click to expand...

Yeah - I got one of those Garmins - traffic drops out all the time and is basically useless.
 
Ummm....Doug, if you read the article closely, you can see that this is apparently not an isolated case involving one station, to wit: "A Subaru official said it is looking into the problem. "
By definition, a single case of a station having objectionable disparity between analog and digital audio levels is not "a problem." If this were, as I said, an "isolated case" (and accepting the dubious notion that both the station CE and Inside Radio reporter were both dunces wasting everyone's time on a non-issue) there would be nothing for Subaru "to look into."

Maybe there is a problem with the design of the Subaru OEM HD Radios. Maybe this is yet another problem with firmware, one in a seemingly endless procession of weird phenomena with this needlessly complex and troublesome system. "A problem".....is a problem.
 
What that sounds like to me is that the 'Subaru spokesman' is basically blowing off this complaint saying it "could simply be that the flipping of the signal from FM to the clarity of HD reception gives the impression of an increase in volume." I really doubt that is the case and as I said, if I were to be presented with this same complaint (which I never have in 8 years of dealing with HD transmission on a daily basis) I would answer the same four questions first. Yes, perhaps Subaru has a radio with a bad design; but you don't start the troubleshooting there.

Occam's razor.

Also I don't agree with you that the system is 'needlessly complex and troublesome.' Any system that has a lot of capability comes with more complexity. It'd be great if we could still use analog cell phones, for example; however, I think most of us would agree that they didn't have quite as much capability as 'smart' phones.
 
Doug Irwin said:
What that sounds like to me is that the 'Subaru spokesman' is basically blowing off this complaint saying it "could simply be that the flipping of the signal from FM to the clarity of HD reception gives the impression of an increase in volume." I really doubt that is the case and as I said, if I were to be presented with this same complaint (which I never have in 8 years of dealing with HD transmission on a daily basis) I would answer the same four questions first. Yes, perhaps Subaru has a radio with a bad design; but you don't start the troubleshooting there.

Occam's razor.

Also I don't agree with you that the system is 'needlessly complex and troublesome.' Any system that has a lot of capability comes with more complexity. It'd be great if we could still use analog cell phones, for example; however, I think most of us would agree that they didn't have quite as much capability as 'smart' phones.
Click to expand...

It HD was not 'needlessly complex and troublesome.' it would work as it should and this HD radio discussion board would have a different tone but as it is it is a sinking ship that has supposedly been rescued 10 times in the past 7 years. How many times has someone here posted the latest and greatest new HD cure which turns out to be just a new color of lipstick for the same old smelly pig?
 
Well 'KB1OKL' let me ask you this: just how is it supposed to work? Spell it out. And what exactly are those '10 times in the last 7 years'? Educate me please.

As far as being 'needlessly complex and troublesome' I'd venture to guess a lot of people said that about FM stereo as it came in to use some 50 odd years ago.

It'd be very easy to look at any manner of evolving technology and to make the same claim.
 
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