Morse code at the far end of A.M. dial?

[joesixpack]

Was messing with this old radio I have, and I turned to dial all the way to the left on A.M. and heard this weird Morse Code beeping on there. Anybody here that knows what this is?

 

[nocomradio]

Probably some navigation beacons down below 530 Khz. Sounds like your old radio goes down pretty low on the AM band.

 

[landtuna]

Yup. Should be a loop at low speed so dig out that old code book and copy the calls. Then look 'em up on the 'net and you will have your location. Should be close.

 

[jd]

There are a couple of beacons in Southeast Texas in that range, DWH on 521 kHz from Hooks Airport and HRD over in Kountze on 524 kHz.

Source for the info: www.dxinfocentre.com/ndb.htm

 

[Mediafrog+]

It was probably DWH on 521, which has a pretty good signal. Several others can be heard at night in that range.

There used to be a number of Houston area beacons on longwave, but most have been shut down in recent years. I haven't heard GLS 206, EYQ 286 or SGR 388 in some time now. BVP 326 (near IAH) is still on, last I checked.

 

[OldChicago]

It was probably DWH on 521, which has a pretty good signal. Several others can be heard at night in that range.

There used to be a number of Houston area beacons on longwave, but most have been shut down in recent years. I haven't heard GLS 206, EYQ 286 or SGR 388 in some time now. BVP 326 (near IAH) is still on, last I checked.

I remember Galveston has a beacon with a weather loop on it. Heck, I could hear that in Chicago!

Old chicago

 

[Mediafrog+]

I remember Galveston has a beacon with a weather loop on it. Heck, I could hear that in Chicago!

That would have been GLS on 206 kHz. It used to run 2kw with a voice weather loop mixed with the GLS morse code identifier. While most longwave non-directional beacons were morse code only, there were a number that also had voice transmissions, usually weather. GNI 236 kHz in Grand Isle, Louisiana was another such station, as well as 365 kHz in Fort Worth and 251 kHz in Amarillo.

Several decades ago the GLS signal was awesome, heard all over North America at night. Even the daytime groundwave coverage was impressive--I could hear it in the Texas Panhandle at high noon in the early 80's.

GLS ran with the voice/morse scheme at least until the late 80's or early 90's, when the power was dropped and the voice content discontinued, becoming just a morse code beacon.

I haven't heard it on the air since early 2009, so I think it is gone. Perhaps someone in the Galveston area with a longwave receiver could confirm one way or another.

 

[stuckinthe50s]

The longwave, NDB (Non Directional Beacon) navigation system is being phased out. The replacement is GPS. Sugar Land is gone as are most in the Houston area. Aside from nostalgia, it's no great loss. Those instrument approaches were not very accurate. The joke was "They'll get you in right county".

 

[secondchoice]

GPS is very accurate, but should there not be a back up. The DOD (Air Force) has the ability to shut down the GPS system or have it give wrong data if it is an emergency. An example, come country or terrorist group could use GPS to guide missiles or drones with nuclear or biological payloads. I would hate to rely on dead reckoning to find an airport in an area that I was unfamiliar with the local land marks or in bad weather. Of course if you have a direction finder that will work on the commercial AM band, you could do triangulation with a couple of clear channel AM's at night. Opp's forgot the AM clears are not that clear.

BTW that was one of the reasons given for the formal station ID's back in the day. Now with "instant" call letter assignments, I kind of wonder if legal station ID's are really needed.

 

[KTN Corp]

If far end meant right side (higher frequency), I was going to say images from shortwave (probably more likely a numbers station or WWV as an alternate choice).

I was hoping NDB was going to replace broadcasting on the MW band.

 

[landtuna]

GPS is very accurate, but should there not be a back up.

There are still over 3,000 VOR stations around the world which provide terrestrial-based navigation for aircraft.

 

[Mediafrog+]

The longwave, NDB (Non Directional Beacon) navigation system is being phased out. The replacement is GPS. Sugar Land is gone as are most in the Houston area. Aside from nostalgia, it's no great loss.

The NDB phaseout has taken longer than first thought. I recall in the late 80's that the thinking was that longwave NDB's would be completely gone by the end of the 90's. However, there are still quite a few still on. Wonder how many of these are there out of sheer habit, or the airport operators have forgotten that they're still on?

Those instrument approaches were not very accurate. The joke was "They'll get you in right county".

NDB's were primarily for visual flight rules, in order for pilots to have a general idea of where they were, and point them towards an airport. Final approach and landing was by eyeballs.

The DOD (Air Force) has the ability to shut down the GPS system or have it give wrong data if it is an emergency.

Which is why the Europeans, Russians, and Chinese are developing their own versions of GPS. Can't say that I blame them, they are smart to do so.

If far end meant right side (higher frequency), I was going to say images from shortwave (probably more likely a numbers station or WWV as an alternate choice).

The original poster mentioned left side of the dial, so probably below 530 kHz.

Morse Code has almost vanished from shortwave. Even ham use of CW is just a fraction of what it used to be.

WWV had some morse code content prior to 1972 when the time wheel format was different. None since then.

 

[jras20]

This is a interesting thread... when I was out at Port O Connor last time, I heard what it sounded like a 2-way radio on my walkman at 108.0mhz. I thought those were in the 400mhz area?

 

[OldChicago]

This is a interesting thread... when I was out at Port O Connor last time, I heard what it sounded like a 2-way radio on my walkman at 108.0mhz. I thought those were in the 400mhz area?

It was probably a nearby CB operator you were getting. A CB operates around 27Mhz, depending on the exact channel you are on. 27 X 4 = 108mhz. I am no engineer, but I think an engineer would call that a 4th harmonic or something like that.


Old Chicago

 

[Mediafrog+]

This is a interesting thread... when I was out at Port O Connor last time, I heard what it sounded like a 2-way radio on my walkman at 108.0mhz. I thought those were in the 400mhz area?

It was probably a nearby CB operator you were getting. A CB operates around 27Mhz, depending on the exact channel you are on. 27 X 4 = 108mhz. I am no engineer, but I think an engineer would call that a 4th harmonic or something like that.

Or...it was an IF image of aircraft voice communication 21.4 MHz (2x10.7) above the tuned frequency on the radio. All sorts of stuff from the 108-136 MHz aeronautical band can get into FM radios with poor IF rejection.

 

[KTN Corp]

Anybody think that once the VORs are shut down, broadcasting might follow on the longwave spectrum--probably in a band similar to its European counterpart?

 

[Mediafrog+]

Anybody think that once the VORs are shut down, broadcasting might follow on the longwave spectrum--probably in a band similar to its European counterpart?

No, for the same reason that medium-wave AM is sinking into oblivion. In areas of the world that use the longwave broadcast band (150-285 kHz) stations are slowly but surely being shut down as other platforms become dominant.

Longwave was used for high-powered transmitters that would cover huge geographic areas. With the proliferation of FM networks in those countries, longwave isn't needed to the extent it one was.

In the late 70's/early 80's there were some proposals before the FCC for a network of high power longwave stations that would cover the U.S., but the idea faded away without any action being taken.