Most network affiliates on a single cable system

[Ultimajock]

Can anyone name a cable system that carries two stations that simulcast each other?

...Comcast Pima County/Tucson. KUAT/6 and KUAS/27 are both licensed to Tucson but simulcast the same schedule; KUAT's transmitter is on Mount Bigelow, and its signal is blocked in the northwestern part of Tucson by Mount Lemmon, thus KUAS was placed on Tumamoc Hill to cover that gap. KUAT appears on the Comcast analog lineup and KUAS appears on the digital lineup...

 

[BRNout]

How common is it for a cable system to carry no out of market stations? In Pensacola, FL we get all the locals (one each of every english network except ION, which never set up shop here) but we don't get APT on Florida cable systems (it is on Dish and OTA) and the Florida PBS station is carried on Alabama cable systems.
It sure would be nice to get APT to get a choice of PBS stations. Wonder why they don't ask for must carry in Florida?

It's VERY common for a cable system to carry no out of market stations. In fact, it even happens in areas where out of market stations are easily received via antenna. Suffolk County Long Island comes to mind, where Connecticut stations actually come in much better over the air than New York stations, but the county is in the NY DMA and only NY market stations are offered on cable. Nothing from the Hartford/New Haven market is included - not even WTNH-8 (ABC), which would be the strongest OTA signal in many areas along the north shore.

As for a PBS station invoking must carry, it won't happen because must carry doesn't apply to PBS stations. There's a loophole in the cable regs as they pertain to PBS signals. On the one hand, they're not subject to non-duplicity; on the other, they are not covered by must-carry unless they were carried prior to a certain date (which I can't recall), in which case they may not be dropped.

I found all this out because Boston's WGBX-44 wasn't carried by certain cable providers in Hillsborough County, NH (in the Boston DMA). Since we got all of the crap shopping and religious stations from the market (who invoked must carry), why not WGBX? Well, I asked Adelphia (the provider at the time) and that was the answer - WGBX didn't have must carry status on that system. It was not carried by Adelphia prior to the magic date, so it is not a must carry signal. I guess they thought that a third PBS (WGBH and WENH are the others) wasn't needed.

Ironically, the Comcast system for the areas surrounding Nashua (where I lived) were upgraded from their former Adelphia service and WGBX was added. But, they didn't have to add it - they only did so because of numerous viewer requests. And, it could still (theoretically) be dropped.

So, the moral of the story is that APB doesn't have the legal standing to invoke must carry. They can ask the cable provider in Pensacola politely, and so can you. That's about as much as can be done. That can work, as shown by my example above.

 

[ssetta]

As for a PBS station invoking must carry, it won't happen because must carry doesn't apply to PBS stations. There's a loophole in the cable regs as they pertain to PBS signals. On the one hand, they're not subject to non-duplicity; on the other, they are not covered by must-carry unless they were carried prior to a certain date (which I can't recall), in which case they may not be dropped.

I found all this out because Boston's WGBX-44 wasn't carried by certain cable providers in Hillsborough County, NH (in the Boston DMA). Since we got all of the crap shopping and religious stations from the market (who invoked must carry), why not WGBX? Well, I asked Adelphia (the provider at the time) and that was the answer - WGBX didn't have must carry status on that system. It was not carried by Adelphia prior to the magic date, so it is not a must carry signal. I guess they thought that a third PBS (WGBH and WENH are the others) wasn't needed.

Ironically, the Comcast system for the areas surrounding Nashua (where I lived) were upgraded from their former Adelphia service and WGBX was added. But, they didn't have to add it - they only did so because of numerous viewer requests. And, it could still (theoretically) be dropped.

That's actually very interesting info, because I've noticed that even in the Boston area, the PBS stations that cable systems carry are kind of spotty. Most of the Boston area gets the 3 mentioned above, and some areas get WSBE from Providence. Pretty much everywhere north of Boston gets WENH, and a lot of areas south of Boston get WSBE. I believe WSBE is available in all of Bristol, Plymouth, and Barnstable counties, as well as the 2 islands. However, I remember back in the 90s, I believe WSBE was only available on certain parts of Cape Cod, excluding the outer cape. Believe it or not, I think there is a small area (Quincy, Randolph, Weymouth)...that does not receive WENH or WSBE, which is very unusual in the Boston area.

There are also selected towns that receive all four, but very few. I actually live in Natick, which is one of them. I believe this is because it goes back to the 80s when Natick had its own cable system. Then in the mid-90s when we switched to fiber-optics, we switched over to the Newton/Needham area system. I don't think WSBE was ever offered on that system, but it was offered in Natick. And so, to this day, we still receive WSBE on channel 22, which I think is not used in all other towns on this system. This is only on Comcast, and not on the other options in the area.

I know that Charter Communications in the Worcester area carries WJAR on most of its systems, but does not carry either WENH or WSBE. However, I think WSBE is solely available in the town of Auburn, on channel 15. I wonder if they had a similar situation to Natick. Does anyone know if Auburn's cable system originally evolved from something else? And strangely enough, Shrewsbury's town-owned cable system used to have all 4, but WENH was dropped when WYDN qualified for must-carry. I found it very odd that a cable system would drop a PBS. It would have made more sense to drop WPRI, since I think by that time, Shrewsbury was the only system in Central MA to still have WPRI. I remember talking to someone at Shrewsbury Cable, and he explained that WJAR, WPRI and WSBE were within a certain radius, so they had to be carried. I also remember him saying their original plan was to drop WSBE and keep WENH, which may have made more sense, since WENH is in the Boston market, while WSBE is not. So, I wonder if FCC regulations used to be different back in the day.

 

[charlestondxman]

Now actually, Walterboro only has the Charleston stations on cable, plus WIS from Columbia. All 3 markets are available OTA. Until the mid 90s, they had all three markets on cable.

Strangely, they have two PBS/ETV stations, WITV and WJWJ, which mostly simulcast each other except for maybe a local newscast and a couple specialty shows on WJWJ.

No other Savannah stations are on the system. Emporia, VA carries all the Hampton Roads (except for Fox) and Richmond stations on their cable system, plus a station from Roanoke Rapids, NC.

Until this August, Pawleys Island (where the hammocks are made, about 20 miles S of Myrtle Beach) had three NBC affiliates on their cable (WIS, WECT, and WCBD), but WIS was dropped after WMBF signed on the air. Strangely, WECT wasn't dropped. They still have two of every network there, except for CW/My.

Most towns in SC outside of the Charleston/Greenville/Myrtle Beach areas carry WIS, and Charlotte stations are carried in a wide part of the state, including WCNC/WMYT in Hartsville.

 

[RonM]

If I recall correctly, in Montgomery, AL around 1978-1980, from their local TV guide called "Tee Vee Times", which listed Montgomery, Prattville and Wetumpka's cable lineups, Prattville and Wetumpka had multiple network affiliates: Prattville had 3 ABCs (6 from B'ham, 32 from Montgomery, and 9 from Columbus), 3 CBSs (3 from Columbus, 8 from Selma and 20 from Montgomery) and 2 NBCs (12 from Montgomery and 13 from B'ham). Wetumpka had 3 CBS (same as above) 2 ABC (9 and 32) and 2 NBC (12 and 13). Of course, 6 in Birmingham and 20 in Montgomery are now Fox, and 8 in Selma is now Montgomery's CBS.

For some reason, Storer Cable in Montgomery didn't carry any out of market stations, but I do recall that they carried 6 from Birmingham on the PBS channel from about Midnight to 6:00 AM since 6 was one of the few, if not the only, station in Alabama that was on 24/7.

 

[bpatrick]

I knew WIS was dropped from the Myrtle Beach
cable when WMBF came on, but I didn't know WECT
was still on. It should be; it's been the de facto NBC
affiliate there since 1954.

In Athens, GA, in the '70s we had nine network
affiliates:

ABC WJBF/6 Augusta
WXIA/11 Atlanta (now NBC)
WLOS/13 Asheville, NC

CBS WAGA/5 Atlanta (now Fox)
WSPA/7 Spartanburg, SC
WRDW/12 Augusta

PBS WGTV/8 Athens

NBC WSB/2 Atlanta (now ABC)
WFBC (now WYFF)/4 Greenville, SC

 

[rch66]

How common is it for a cable system to carry no out of market stations? In Pensacola, FL we get all the locals (one each of every english network except ION, which never set up shop here) but we don't get APT on Florida cable systems (it is on Dish and OTA) and the Florida PBS station is carried on Alabama cable systems.
It sure would be nice to get APT to get a choice of PBS stations. Wonder why they don't ask for must carry in Florida?

It's VERY common for a cable system to carry no out of market stations. In fact, it even happens in areas where out of market stations are easily received via antenna. Suffolk County Long Island comes to mind, where Connecticut stations actually come in much better over the air than New York stations, but the county is in the NY DMA and only NY market stations are offered on cable. Nothing from the Hartford/New Haven market is included - not even WTNH-8 (ABC), which would be the strongest OTA signal in many areas along the north shore.

As for a PBS station invoking must carry, it won't happen because must carry doesn't apply to PBS stations. There's a loophole in the cable regs as they pertain to PBS signals. On the one hand, they're not subject to non-duplicity; on the other, they are not covered by must-carry unless they were carried prior to a certain date (which I can't recall), in which case they may not be dropped.

I found all this out because Boston's WGBX-44 wasn't carried by certain cable providers in Hillsborough County, NH (in the Boston DMA). Since we got all of the crap shopping and religious stations from the market (who invoked must carry), why not WGBX? Well, I asked Adelphia (the provider at the time) and that was the answer - WGBX didn't have must carry status on that system. It was not carried by Adelphia prior to the magic date, so it is not a must carry signal. I guess they thought that a third PBS (WGBH and WENH are the others) wasn't needed.

Ironically, the Comcast system for the areas surrounding Nashua (where I lived) were upgraded from their former Adelphia service and WGBX was added. But, they didn't have to add it - they only did so because of numerous viewer requests. And, it could still (theoretically) be dropped.

So, the moral of the story is that APB doesn't have the legal standing to invoke must carry. They can ask the cable provider in Pensacola politely, and so can you. That's about as much as can be done. That can work, as shown by my example above.

Must-carry does apply to PBS stations, but for Non Commercial Stations (NCE)s, the cable company can reject a 4th PBS station if its considered duplicative to an existing station on the lineup. Most often PBS member stations know their coverage area and might have a gentlemen's agreement not to pursue new territory, since they operate based on viewer memberships (and they don't want to dilute that), so they rarely do, unlike commercial stations that try to maximize coverage area as far as the DMA boundaries and signal reaches go.

In Philadelphia, that was the case with WHYY and WLVT. WLVT was the exclusive PBS station on the cable lineups in the Lehigh Valley.

In the 90's, it was like this:
WHYY 12: SE PA, So. NJ/Mercer, and Delaware (Philadelphia DMA minus the Lehigh Valley), plus Ocean Co.
WLVT 39: exclusive in Lehigh Valley (i.e. No other PBS stations carried), SE PA, Poconos region between Allentown and Scranton.

Then around 2000, DirecTV and Dish Net. carried WHYY and offered it throughout Philadelphia market.
DirecTV later added WLVT and offered it throughout Philadelphia market, carrying both WHYY and WLVT.

In 2007, WHYY was added to Service Electric and RCN in Lehigh Valley, though WLVT is on CH.12, and WHYY is on Ch.21.

Other PBS stations from nearby:
NJN - runs a different schedule to avoid duplication between WNET 13 and WHYY 12: pretty much on cable where an NJN signal reaches, minus the Lehigh Valley, and on DirecTV and Dish Network in NY and Philadelphia market.
WNET (from the NY market) - on cable in Mercer County, NJ, along with WHYY, NJN.
WITF (from the Harrisburg market) - on cable in Berks County, PA along with WHYY, WLVT.

 

[rch66]

One boneheaded thing done by DirecTV is they refuse to offer Connecticut Public Television in Fairfield County, CT, even though they already uplink it for the Hartford locals, as DirecTV counts that they already include 3 PBS stations for the New York market, that being WNET WLIW, and independent NCE WNYE. NJN carried for Philadelphia - and NY. They don't view it locally. Same applies for Dish Net. For CPTV, that's a loss of 25% of its CT base.

 

[ssetta]

How common is it for a cable system to carry no out of market stations? In Pensacola, FL we get all the locals (one each of every english network except ION, which never set up shop here) but we don't get APT on Florida cable systems (it is on Dish and OTA) and the Florida PBS station is carried on Alabama cable systems.
It sure would be nice to get APT to get a choice of PBS stations. Wonder why they don't ask for must carry in Florida?

It's VERY common for a cable system to carry no out of market stations. In fact, it even happens in areas where out of market stations are easily received via antenna. Suffolk County Long Island comes to mind, where Connecticut stations actually come in much better over the air than New York stations, but the county is in the NY DMA and only NY market stations are offered on cable. Nothing from the Hartford/New Haven market is included - not even WTNH-8 (ABC), which would be the strongest OTA signal in many areas along the north shore.

As for a PBS station invoking must carry, it won't happen because must carry doesn't apply to PBS stations. There's a loophole in the cable regs as they pertain to PBS signals. On the one hand, they're not subject to non-duplicity; on the other, they are not covered by must-carry unless they were carried prior to a certain date (which I can't recall), in which case they may not be dropped.

I found all this out because Boston's WGBX-44 wasn't carried by certain cable providers in Hillsborough County, NH (in the Boston DMA). Since we got all of the crap shopping and religious stations from the market (who invoked must carry), why not WGBX? Well, I asked Adelphia (the provider at the time) and that was the answer - WGBX didn't have must carry status on that system. It was not carried by Adelphia prior to the magic date, so it is not a must carry signal. I guess they thought that a third PBS (WGBH and WENH are the others) wasn't needed.

Ironically, the Comcast system for the areas surrounding Nashua (where I lived) were upgraded from their former Adelphia service and WGBX was added. But, they didn't have to add it - they only did so because of numerous viewer requests. And, it could still (theoretically) be dropped.

So, the moral of the story is that APB doesn't have the legal standing to invoke must carry. They can ask the cable provider in Pensacola politely, and so can you. That's about as much as can be done. That can work, as shown by my example above.

Must-carry does apply to PBS stations, but for Non Commercial Stations (NCE)s, the cable company can reject a 4th PBS station if its considered duplicative to an existing station on the lineup. Most often PBS member stations know their coverage area and might have a gentlemen's agreement not to pursue new territory, since they operate based on viewer memberships (and they don't want to dilute that), so they rarely do, unlike commercial stations that try to maximize coverage area as far as the DMA boundaries and signal reaches go.

In Philadelphia, that was the case with WHYY and WLVT. WLVT was the exclusive PBS station on the cable lineups in the Lehigh Valley.

In the 90's, it was like this:
WHYY 12: SE PA, So. NJ/Mercer, and Delaware (Philadelphia DMA minus the Lehigh Valley), plus Ocean Co.
WLVT 39: exclusive in Lehigh Valley (i.e. No other PBS stations carried), SE PA, Poconos region between Allentown and Scranton.

Then around 2000, DirecTV and Dish Net. carried WHYY and offered it throughout Philadelphia market.
DirecTV later added WLVT and offered it throughout Philadelphia market, carrying both WHYY and WLVT.

In 2007, WHYY was added to Service Electric and RCN in Lehigh Valley, though WLVT is on CH.12, and WHYY is on Ch.21.

Other PBS stations from nearby:
NJN - runs a different schedule to avoid duplication between WNET 13 and WHYY 12: pretty much on cable where an NJN signal reaches, minus the Lehigh Valley, and on DirecTV and Dish Network in NY and Philadelphia market.
WNET (from the NY market) - on cable in Mercer County, NJ, along with WHYY, NJN.
WITF (from the Harrisburg market) - on cable in Berks County, PA along with WHYY, WLVT.

I noticed that certain parts of eastern PA (especially Lehigh Valley) have like two or three different cable providers as options. And I think each of them have a slightly different selection of locals that they offer. I know there's Service Electric, RCN, and Comcast. You would think the one that offers the most is the one that has always been there since the 70s or 80s. So, does anyone know what the original cable provider for Lehigh Valley was?

 

[milton77]

According to tvguide.com, the cable TV system in Broken Bow, Oklahoma (74728 zip code) carries:

3 ABC (KTBS/KHBS/WFAA)
2 CBS (KWTV/KSLA)
2 NBC (KFOR/KTEN)
3 FOX (KOKH/KMSS/KDFW)
2 CW (KOCB/WPIX)
1 MY Network (KAUT)

Kind of interesting, Broken Bow is in far Southeastern Oklahoma, but manages to carry every Oklahoma City and a few Dallas network affiliates. However, it is in the Shreveport market, I believe.

 

[KML0224]

Hmmmm! That county borders both Texas and Arkansas...and they DON'T carry KTAL-TV from Texarkana, TX? Wow! Was there a must-carry issue with the cable company there?

 

[bpatrick]

I seem to recall a must-carry issue that got
KTAL kicked off cable systems in much of its
DMA. Somebody fill me in on this.

 

[BRNout]

Broken Bow's lineup is interesting to me because when I was in nearby Idabel (at the SE corner of OK), I was surprised to see that most stations offered were from Texarkana and Shreveport (as locals). As well as a couple of Dallas and Oklahoma City stations.

Shreveport was a shocker to me because I drove down from OKC and wasn't thinking that the area would have any connection with Louisiana!

 

[Rowdy1234]

Comcast Cable in Richmond, Indiana (in the Dayton, OH television market) currently has at least 2 channels per network. This is due to Richmond's close proximity to Dayton, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis.

3 NBC (WDTN-Dayton, WLWT-Cincinnati, WTHR-Indianapolis)
2 ABC (WRTV-Indianapolis, WKEF-Dayton)
2 CBS (WHIO-Dayton, WISH-Indianapolis)
2 Fox (WXIX-Cincinnati, WRGT-Dayton)
2 CW (WTTV-Indianapolis, WBDT-Dayton)
3 PBS (WPTO-Oxford, WPTD-Dayton, WIPB-Muncie)

The cable system does not carry any MyNetwork TV affiliates.

 

[KML0224]

Do any of those stations carry MY as one of their digital subchannels?

 

[Rowdy1234]

WRGT in Dayton does, but its not on the cable system (analog or digital) yet as far as I know.

Other My affiliates nearby are full-powered stations (WSTR-TV in Cincinnati and WNDY-TV in Indianapolis).

They also didn't carry UPN after WTTV changed its network affiliation to The WB back in 1998. I remember a lot of squabbling around town about the cable company's refusal to add the new UPN affiliate, WNDY-TV, because of it. WNDY buying the exclusive market rights to many of WTTV's Indiana-centric programming (Hoosier Millionaire, High School Football/Basketball championship broadcasts, etc.) also didn't help matters. Apparently WNDY wanted a lot of money from the cable system and neither party could work out a deal.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

WNDY still isn't on any cable systems in central Indiana that I'm aware of ... despite two ownership changes since the period Rowdy mentioned.

 

[Nate Wesley]

Remember how folks were talking about getting several NFL games because of affiliate carriage on cable? If these NFL coverage maps are to be believed--my Fox & CBS locals for Mobile and Montgomery, AL (WALA 10, WCOV 20; WKRG 5, WAKA 8 ) will provide six different games today for Mediacom subscribers in the Monroeville, AL area.

Early day game (Noon, central time):
WKRG 5 has Miami at St. Louis, WAKA 8 has Indianapolis at Cleveland (both confirmed at 12:16pm)

Late day game (3pm, central time):
WKRG 5 is scheduled to have Denver at NY Jets, WAKA 8 is scheduled to have Pittsburgh at New England;
WALA 10 is scheduled to have New Orleans at Tampa Bay, WCOV 20 will show NY Giants at Washington.

 

[naytchrboy]

When I was in Roanoke Rapids, NC a couple of years ago, they had stations on the Charter cable system from 3 different markets:
WRAL (CBS) Raleigh
WTVD (ABC) Durham
WRAZ (Fox) Raleigh
WLFL (then WB) Raleigh

WITN (NBC) Washington, NC
WNCT (CBS) Greenville, NC

WGNT (then UPN) Portsmouth, Va

plus the local UNC-TV PBS affiliate that was in Roanoke Rapids as well some low powered community station in Weldon/Roanoke Rapids.

 

[jlehmann]

I believe that there are some cable systems in the Lakes Region of NH (Laconia, Wolfeboro, etc.) that carry all of the Boston and Portland affiliates - plus WMUR Manchester (ABC) and WUNH Durham (PBS). That would mean that they too have 3 ABCs and 3 PBS affiliates.

Here's what Metrocast in the Laconia area caries:

ABC - WCVB Boston, WMTW Poland Springs/Portland, WMUR Manchester
CBS - WBZ Boston, WGME Portland
NBC - WHDH Boston, WCSH Portland
Fox - WFXT Boston
CW - WLVI Boston
My - WZMY Derry
PBS - WENH Durham, WGBH Boston

To summerize, they leave out all but the big 3 from Portland, and they carry everything from Boston except for WGBX.