Moving From AM to FM... A Question

[emailfailed]

While this is a moot point I have wondered, in the 1970s why didn't many of the successful AM stations that had FM outlets matriculate their programming to FM, when FM was becoming popular.

For example, why didn't RKO move and continue the legacy of KHJ on 101.1?

For that matter, out in the Inland Empire why didn't KMEN move to 99.1 or KFXM move into 97.5?

About the only station in Southern California I can think of this happening was Orange County's KEZY "moving" from 1190 to 95.9 sometime in the early 80s (after the FM side had a brief stint with a KROQ type format).

It seems odd station owners at the time who had successful AM stations didn't maximize their FM property when it was becoming inevitable FM would become the dominating force sooner than later.

At the risk of answering my own question I would venture a guess what may have hindered such a move was the FCC's ban on full-on AM-FM simulcasts.

 

[pianoplayer88key]

I wonder if coverage areas (at least back in the day) could have had anything to do with it.

For example, even in the best normal conditions I rarely hear of FM stations reaching beyond about maybe 100-120 miles or so. In El Cajon at the top of a hill I can get a reliable signal from KRTH 101.1 (probably about that distance range) and from KVYB 103.3 Santa Barbara, about 210 miles or so, but I suspect the latter doesn't happen very many places.

On the other hand, I've read stories of 50kW stations like 760 KKZN Thornton, CO, and 850 KOA Denver, CO, booming in with respectable fairly strong signals and armchair copy in the middle of the day 600 miles to the east of Denver, 50 miles inside Missouri, and 650 WSM apparently was heard 883 miles away in Lubbock, TX, with a good signal on a GE SuperRadio aided by a four-foot loop.

I would expect that a 50kW signal on 540kHz with a Franklin antenna could get out even farther than the above examples, especially over a path with a conductivity of 30 or higher (especially saltwater - 5000, for example). Add to that the AM bands not being so noisy (from non-radio devices) back then, from what I understand, the fact that the above examples were done within the past few years, and from 300 miles away I actually achieved, using only a relatively wimpy ultralight radio, Select-A-Tenna and powerline ground wire (I expect communications receivers and beverage antennas to be so superior with sensitivity that if the same increase in dB was applied to my setup, it'd take a signal from no reception to total overload), a signal strength that I normally only see within 1/6th to 1/8th mile of a 50kW transmitter site (reminder: this was 300 miles away), and I would expect much farther distances could be achieved all day. Try THAT with an FM station. Also in rural areas where my portable radios aren't desensed or splattered by locals, I've heard signals from well outside Radio-Locator's 0.15mV/m coverage maps, and in some cases twice as far. For example, I heard a weak but identifiable signal on 700 KALL North Salt Lake City, 623 miles NNE of Cameron Corners, CA, using a PL-380 and Select-A-Tenna, at noon on November 19. I expect the signal quality of better setups, including the examples cited/linked above, would be MUCH superior to my reception of KALL.

I have NEVER heard of FM signals going much farther than 200 miles, except with e-skip which doesn't happen 24/7.

 

[davideduardo]

While this is a moot point I have wondered, in the 1970s why didn't many of the successful AM stations that had FM outlets matriculate their programming to FM, when FM was becoming popular.

At first, the AMs that had to split off the FMs that they had been carrying on the books for, sometimes, decades, did not want to have the FM turn around and eat the AM audience or revenue.

Some FMs helped inferior AMs due to the exception for daytimers... WPGC in DC ate WEAM alive once it went to FM with a full facility. Some FMs were independent, like Bartel and EZ, and they had nothing to protect. Others, like some of the Metromedia early rockers, fell into viable formats. And some that stayed far from the AM and did schulke or Bonneville ended up #1.

But often the AM that had a format that got an FM competitor had not realized the potential, or thought themselves unbeatable. Not too many people believed in FM, even well into the 70's. Look at major group Storer which sold its Miami FM to Heftel in about 1973, thinking FM was not really going to happen... only to see Y-100 begin 40 years at the top or near it.

I recall filing for my first FM license in 1966, and being asked "why?"

Accepting the viability of FM for many old-line AM managers meant also accepting that a market with 6 or 7 viable stations would suddenly have 20 or 25 viable stations. Instead of moving ahead of time, they went into denial. So it is sort of like radio's attitude towards pure play today.

 

[davideduardo]

I wonder if coverage areas (at least back in the day) could have had anything to do with it.

If you are talking about the 40's and before, that's true. But with TV came the reduced use of radio at night, and the dependence on local coverage areas during daylight hours.

And as the radio networks declined in importance, radio became a strictly local sales proposition. Ratings were done for local markets, and buying was done market by market.

Today, most markets (with exceptions where the market has big AMs like Chicago and San francisco) are defined in size by the coverage of the full facility FMs, not the AMs. And, of course, there are so few AMs with full market day and night signals (less than 200 in the top 100 markets) that there was not much choice on AM as cities grew to the suburbs.

 

[radiorob2.0]

While this is a moot point I have wondered, in the 1970s why didn't many of the successful AM stations that had FM outlets matriculate their programming to FM, when FM was becoming popular.

For example, why didn't RKO move and continue the legacy of KHJ on 101.1?

For that matter, out in the Inland Empire why didn't KMEN move to 99.1 or KFXM move into 97.5?

I had read somewhere that KGGI was the migration of KMEN to FM. As far as KHJ, it was thought about. Charlie Van Dyke had mentioned during a similar discussion at Reelradio there was talk of moving to FM with a twist. RKO had considered a frequency swap with CBS. If that had happened then KHJ would have migrated to FM and still be called "93 KHJ". The idea didn't evolve further than talk. Besides KRTH was one of RKO's few successful FM's.

 

[LKellerIII]

RE: RKO General and KHJ. At least in LA, RKO was smart enough to hold onto their FM. In San Francisco, KFRC-FM (106.1) was getting poor ratings in the mid 70s, so RKO sold the station. The Big 610 was still doing great - I guess RKO felt their AM cash cow would be enough going into the future.

Once sold, the new format on 106.1 (KMEL) was initially album rock (there was probably some kind of non-compete clause in the sale). But by the 80s, KMEL had flipped to an All Hit format, and became one of 3 or 4 FM Top 40 stations that ate KFRC's lunch.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Looking back on that era from here.... particularly if you are either young or new to the world of being a groupie to the world of radio broadcasting, it looks so easy. What were they thinking! Wasn't anyone back then a visionary who could recognize opportunity???

In the mind of many, FM was still something that audiophiles were viewed as the consumer. People who put aside everything else that cluttered their life, turned on their component system, and worship at the shrine of the exotic technical-ness of the who thing.

That era may have existed just prior to 1970. But in the 70s, ad agencies were not ready to take a change of pushing their clients into this new medium too quickly. No track record yet. What if they don't get the results they want? Will we lose the account? Retailers who were buying direct (no agency involved) were not interested in rewriting history by being pioneer trail-blazers. They were only interested in making ad buys that had some promise of putting customers through the door TODAY!

We were a society that had many participants who had still not fully accepted the idea that rock-and-roll was here to stay, and had not yet fully accepted the idea that we were going to let teenagers and very, very young adults have a full voice in how society was going function. Looking back on it from HERE, we were certainly in a state of denial. But in 1970 and shortly after, if your family fortune was tied up in the ownership of a broadcasting facility that was solid, doing well, a goose-laying-golden-eggs... you had little or no incentive to rock the boat and bet the family farm by moving your most precious cargo over to this new, un-proven FM thingy-dingy.

And actually, part of what you are asking is: "Why today, 40 years later, why do owners STILL keep their best cargo on the A.M. steamship," isn't it?

 

[davideduardo]

That era may have existed just prior to 1970. But in the 70s, ad agencies were not ready to take a change of pushing their clients into this new medium too quickly. No track record yet. What if they don't get the results they want? Will we lose the account? Retailers who were buying direct (no agency involved) were not interested in rewriting history by being pioneer trail-blazers.

It is interesting that local situations can change the whole scenario... sort of like the "void in Nebraska" disclaimer.

My first FM went on the air in 1967, and ran noncommercially the first year. I did not offer the station, so I sold nothing. It was supported by three very big AM stations in the same market, and was basically a hobby.

A friend asked me to sell him a schedule. To avoid adding commercials, I quoted a rate four times that of the most expensive AM... and for shorter spots (20") and he said, "yes, if I can be the exclusive instant coffee brand." Now, I am not always the fastest thinker, but since his was the only instant coffee on the market, I figured I had nothing to lose if he bought 6 spots a day minimum. He had his agency send the order the next day.

We did 6 single-spot stops an hour, after every three songs. Each spot was a 20 second one, and copy had to meet our approval.

Almost 100% of accounts were agency accounts. We had agencies whining about rejected creative and ending up rerecording the spots to our requirements and then congratulating themselves for expanding their marking efforts. And with two minutes an hour or spots, the little hobby FM made more bottom line profit than the #1 AM. That was 1968. In ratings a year later, the station showed #2 in upper income and top 10 in middle income listeners (income, not age, was the buy criteria) in a market with over 40 radio stations.

The reason it worked, I think, is that the leading AM supported the FM. That gave credibility. And the programming took fully as much of our PD's time as any of the AMs... if not more. Technically, we went stereo in the second year, increased HAAT from about 30 meters to 300 meters and then to 1,100 meters (over 4000 meters AMSL) so there was investment in every aspect of the product.

 

[KevinFodor]

WHIO-FM in Dayton, Ohio signed on as a "beautiful music" station in the late 1940's/Early 1950's. Founder James M. Cox, like many owners of the time thought little of FM other than as a toy and told the sales department (so the story goes) not to bother much with trying to sell the station.

Early on...the station's commercial policy was 2 commercials per hour. The first one was allotted a total of 55 words (not seconds, words!) at the top of the hour, and the second at the bottom of the hour was allowed 15 words.

Imagine the Governor's surprise when, a year or two later, someone showed him ratings which stated that WHIO-FM was the #1 station in Dayton! The commercial policy, obviously changed that day!

Also in Dayton, the story is told that Great Trails Broadcasting Corporation, owner of WING-AM, a very successful Top 40 station in the 1960's and 1970's had been given a chance to buy an FM frequency, but not believing in the potential of the band, the company turned the offer down. It would be the 1980's before the company would have another chance, purchase an FM 35 miles away in Eaton, Ohio and having to pay to move it closer to Dayton (Brookville, Ohio to be exact.) before they could launch CHR WGTZ-FM in 1984.

But, one who did believe in the potential of FM was the owner of tiny daytimer WAVI-AM, the late H.K. "Bud" Crowl. In 1963, Crowl had been convinced by former WING DJ turned local radio consultant Gene "By Golly" Barry that there might be a market for Crowl's new FM station to program to teenagers who were fans of R & B. In 1964, (ironically just as Motown caught on) they launched WDAO-FM (107.7) as a 50 KW Top 40-leaned Urban station. It didn't take too long for the station to catch footing as teenagers flocked to the better sounding product. It would be until around 1969, though, before another Dayton FM (WONE-FM, later to become WTUE-FM), decided to enter the Top 40/Rock market.

In a recent interview I did for the Dayton Broadcaster's Hall Of Fame website, WONE-FM/WTUE Program Director Bill Struck (yes, of Denver fame) told me he thought one of the reasons WTUE grabbed audience so quickly was that, unlike other cities, teen and young adult FM cume was already on the band sampling WDAO. By the area of 1972-1974, Dayton's top ratings among young listeners were often a competition between WDAO-FM, WTUE-FM, Album rocker WVUD-FM (owned then by the University of Dayton) and, WING-AM. A competition which, obviously, happened much earlier on than in a lot of markets...

 

[nmoore6676]

WHIO-FM in Dayton, Ohio signed on as a "beautiful music" station in the late 1940's/Early 1950's. Founder James M. Cox, like many owners of the time thought little of FM other than as a toy and told the sales department (so the story goes) not to bother much with trying to sell the station.

Early on...the station's commercial policy was 2 commercials per hour. The first one was allotted a total of 55 words (not seconds, words!) at the top of the hour, and the second at the bottom of the hour was allowed 15 words.

Imagine the Governor's surprise when, a year or two later, someone showed him ratings which stated that WHIO-FM was the #1 station in Dayton! The commercial policy, obviously changed that day!

Also in Dayton, the story is told that Great Trails Broadcasting Corporation, owner of WING-AM, a very successful Top 40 station in the 1960's and 1970's had been given a chance to buy an FM frequency, but not believing in the potential of the band, the company turned the offer down. It would be the 1980's before the company would have another chance, purchase an FM 35 miles away in Eaton, Ohio and having to pay to move it closer to Dayton (Brookville, Ohio to be exact.) before they could launch CHR WGTZ-FM in 1984.

But, one who did believe in the potential of FM was the owner of tiny daytimer WAVI-AM, the late H.K. "Bud" Crowl. In 1963, Crowl had been convinced by former WING DJ turned local radio consultant Gene "By Golly" Barry that there might be a market for Crowl's new FM station to program to teenagers who were fans of R & B. In 1964, (ironically just as Motown caught on) they launched WDAO-FM (107.7) as a 50 KW Top 40-leaned Urban station. It didn't take too long for the station to catch footing as teenagers flocked to the better sounding product. It would be until around 1969, though, before another Dayton FM (WONE-FM, later to become WTUE-FM), decided to enter the Top 40/Rock market.

In a recent interview I did for the Dayton Broadcaster's Hall Of Fame website, WONE-FM/WTUE Program Director Bill Struck (yes, of Denver fame) told me he thought one of the reasons WTUE grabbed audience so quickly was that, unlike other cities, teen and young adult FM cume was already on the band sampling WDAO. By the area of 1972-1974, Dayton's top ratings among young listeners were often a competition between WDAO-FM, WTUE-FM, Album rocker WVUD-FM (owned then by the University of Dayton) and, WING-AM. A competition which, obviously, happened much earlier on than in a lot of markets...

Also Springfield had in the late 40s WJEM, the companion FM to WJEL which then came back in the mid 50s as WBLY FM. I am not certain when it came on but another powerful FM was WPFB in Middletown. Because of all of those I built my first EICO kit FM tuner with the little magic eye bulb on the dial slider. Before that I had built a one tube FM tuner I found in Popular Electronics but it only picked up the most powerful stations so I only used it for a couple of months. I was a junior high FM listener all the way back then.

 

[flakunkel]

But, one who did believe in the potential of FM was the owner of tiny daytimer WAVI-AM, the late H.K. "Bud" Crowl. In 1963, Crowl had been convinced by former WING DJ turned local radio consultant Gene "By Golly" Barry that there might be a market for Crowl's new FM station to program to teenagers who were fans of R & B. In 1964, (ironically just as Motown caught on) they launched WDAO-FM (107.7) as a 50 KW Top 40-leaned Urban station. It didn't take too long for the station to catch footing as teenagers flocked to the better sounding product. It would be until around 1969, though, before another Dayton FM (WONE-FM, later to become WTUE-FM), decided to enter the Top 40/Rock market.

In a recent interview I did for the Dayton Broadcaster's Hall Of Fame website, WONE-FM/WTUE Program Director Bill Struck (yes, of Denver fame) told me he thought one of the reasons WTUE grabbed audience so quickly was that, unlike other cities, teen and young adult FM cume was already on the band sampling WDAO. By the area of 1972-1974, Dayton's top ratings among young listeners were often a competition between WDAO-FM, WTUE-FM, Album rocker WVUD-FM (owned then by the University of Dayton) and, WING-AM. A competition which, obviously, happened much earlier on than in a lot of markets...

I was part of the WAVI/WDAO news department in 1970, and WDAO was truly a phenomenon. I'd been listening for several years before joining the staff, and in those days hearing R&B on FM was mind-blowing -- no one, and I mean no one else had done it. Add to that a racially-mixed on-air staff of high-profile personalities, (Gene "By Golly" Barry being one of them) and WDAO was a potent force, indeed. It was #1 in some dayparts when I was there. I don't remember WTUE being a factor at that time at all, although WONE was struggling against WING in the AM Top 40 wars.

There were a few other FM stations in the same part of the country that broke out of the "beautiful music" mold in the mid-to-late 1960's. There was the University of Dayton's WVUD (a commercial station), WEBN, Cincinnati with free-form rock, and WGLM, Richmond, IN (now WQLK) with a personality-driven middle-of-the-road (what we would call AC today) format heavy on play-by-play sports coverage. I was PD there for a while. But at that particular time, WDAO was unique in both its format and its success.

 

[nmoore6676]

But, one who did believe in the potential of FM was the owner of tiny daytimer WAVI-AM, the late H.K. "Bud" Crowl. In 1963, Crowl had been convinced by former WING DJ turned local radio consultant Gene "By Golly" Barry that there might be a market for Crowl's new FM station to program to teenagers who were fans of R & B. In 1964, (ironically just as Motown caught on) they launched WDAO-FM (107.7) as a 50 KW Top 40-leaned Urban station. It didn't take too long for the station to catch footing as teenagers flocked to the better sounding product. It would be until around 1969, though, before another Dayton FM (WONE-FM, later to become WTUE-FM), decided to enter the Top 40/Rock market.

In a recent interview I did for the Dayton Broadcaster's Hall Of Fame website, WONE-FM/WTUE Program Director Bill Struck (yes, of Denver fame) told me he thought one of the reasons WTUE grabbed audience so quickly was that, unlike other cities, teen and young adult FM cume was already on the band sampling WDAO. By the area of 1972-1974, Dayton's top ratings among young listeners were often a competition between WDAO-FM, WTUE-FM, Album rocker WVUD-FM (owned then by the University of Dayton) and, WING-AM. A competition which, obviously, happened much earlier on than in a lot of markets...

I was part of the WAVI/WDAO news department in 1970, and WDAO was truly a phenomenon. I'd been listening for several years before joining the staff, and in those days hearing R&B on FM was mind-blowing -- no one, and I mean no one else had done it. Add to that a racially-mixed on-air staff of high-profile personalities, (Gene "By Golly" Barry being one of them) and WDAO was a potent force, indeed. It was #1 in some dayparts when I was there. I don't remember WTUE being a factor at that time at all, although WONE was struggling against WING in the AM Top 40 wars.

There were a few other FM stations in the same part of the country that broke out of the "beautiful music" mold in the mid-to-late 1960's. There was the University of Dayton's WVUD (a commercial station), WEBN, Cincinnati with free-form rock, and WGLM, Richmond, IN (now WQLK) with a personality-driven middle-of-the-road (what we would call AC today) format heavy on play-by-play sports coverage. I was PD there for a while. But at that particular time, WDAO was unique in both its format and its success.

Yes WDAO was a phenomenon because before that I waited until I could pick up WLAC on the skip. In fact WBLY-FM for a time made an attempt to copy WDAO in the evenings beginning at 11 or midnight. Their DJ had a name like P Augusta Dee or something of that nature but WDAO was a great station and the audience crossed the racial barrier as well. The Miami Valley at one time was on the cutting edge of many trends in radio.

 

[EasyBakeOven]

In the early 70's, a young Randy Michaels once suggested that RKO put Top 40 on their L.A. FM at 101.1, but sister station, 93 KHJ-AM, was still an L.A. powerhouse. A look at the struggles of 102.7 KKDJ, 100.3 KIQQ and early 102.7 KIIS-FM shows that maybe RKO was right in that instance. Those FMs did make some noise in the early to mid 70's and 94.7 KMET ratings did prove that there was a significant audience on the FM band, but perhaps not there was not enough for a mass appeal Top 40. I don't have actual figures to back any of this up.

Moving from AM to FM may seem like a no brainer today, but there are several things you have to consider when discussing FM radio in the late 60s/early 70s. In a lot of cases, FM transmissions were only horizontal, making car listening tough. Today, FM broadcasts use a combination of both vertical and horizontal patterns. The other thing that made it tough for in car listening is that most cars did not come with FM tuners. Terrain was another factor in why it took so long for FM to catch on in some markets. 610 KFRC-AM in S.F. carried on as a CHR well into the mid 80s, because AM can usually overcome the hilly terrain that FM struggles to penetrate.

 

[davideduardo]

Moving from AM to FM may seem like a no brainer today, but there are several things you have to consider when discussing FM radio in the late 60s/early 70s. In a lot of cases, FM transmissions were only horizontal, making car listening tough. Today, FM broadcasts use a combination of both vertical and horizontal patterns. The other thing that made it tough for in car listening is that most cars did not come with FM tuners. Terrain was another factor in why it took so long for FM to catch on in some markets. 610 KFRC-AM in S.F. carried on as a CHR well into the mid 80s, because AM can usually overcome the hilly terrain that FM struggles to penetrate.

In general, all those factors were overcome when programming was superior on FM.

I've been throught some of those battles, and my anecdotal experience illustrates what I saw in competitive commercial markets all over the world.

FM struggled for over 20 years on the present band. By the mid 60's, few FMs had any ratings and even fewer were actually profitable on their own. Car manufacturers had little reason to put something in vehicles that did not have a built in demand. It took the FCC and a rule about fulltime simulasting to force new programming and thus interest in FM.

When programming was good, listeners would tune in despite terrain and polarization issues. I had the first FM on the band in a market of about 1,000,000 that was as hilly and mountainous as the hilliest US market... we went from nothing to #2 in upper income listeners in just two years and we billed as much as any other station in the market. All this was pre-1970, and shows that those obstacles were overcome by unique, superior programming.

Keep in mind that the lack of FM car radios was not as big a factor as it might appear. Then, as now, only about a third or less (25% in New York City, for example) of listening is in the car.

I also saw a top 15 US market where, by 1978 there were only about 15 shares for FM when the US average was over 50%. Of couse, there were 5 beautiful music stations, and nothing really mass appeal. A mass appeal format was launched in the last week of December, 1978 and the ratings by April of '79 showed 55% of the audience on FM, 33% of it going to that one station! And that was a 30-station or more market. Again, having the right product made FM happen very fast.

And I think the fascinating Dayton stories in this thread prove the content point a lot better than my examples. It's nice to read those slices of history that show the exceptions to more standard beliefs.

 

[nmoore6676]

Moving from AM to FM may seem like a no brainer today, but there are several things you have to consider when discussing FM radio in the late 60s/early 70s. In a lot of cases, FM transmissions were only horizontal, making car listening tough. Today, FM broadcasts use a combination of both vertical and horizontal patterns. The other thing that made it tough for in car listening is that most cars did not come with FM tuners. Terrain was another factor in why it took so long for FM to catch on in some markets. 610 KFRC-AM in S.F. carried on as a CHR well into the mid 80s, because AM can usually overcome the hilly terrain that FM struggles to penetrate.

In general, all those factors were overcome when programming was superior on FM.

I've been throught some of those battles, and my anecdotal experience illustrates what I saw in competitive commercial markets all over the world.

FM struggled for over 20 years on the present band. By the mid 60's, few FMs had any ratings and even fewer were actually profitable on their own. Car manufacturers had little reason to put something in vehicles that did not have a built in demand. It took the FCC and a rule about fulltime simulasting to force new programming and thus interest in FM.

When programming was good, listeners would tune in despite terrain and polarization issues. I had the first FM on the band in a market of about 1,000,000 that was as hilly and mountainous as the hilliest US market... we went from nothing to #2 in upper income listeners in just two years and we billed as much as any other station in the market. All this was pre-1970, and shows that those obstacles were overcome by unique, superior programming.

Keep in mind that the lack of FM car radios was not as big a factor as it might appear. Then, as now, only about a third or less (25% in New York City, for example) of listening is in the car.

I also saw a top 15 US market where, by 1978 there were only about 15 shares for FM when the US average was over 50%. Of couse, there were 5 beautiful music stations, and nothing really mass appeal. A mass appeal format was launched in the last week of December, 1978 and the ratings by April of '79 showed 55% of the audience on FM, 33% of it going to that one station! And that was a 30-station or more market. Again, having the right product made FM happen very fast.

And I think the fascinating Dayton stories in this thread prove the content point a lot better than my examples. It's nice to read those slices of history that show the exceptions to more standard beliefs.

Your insights, as always, are fascinating. As to the car manufacturers they did make FM adapters for car radios of which I installed many in the Miami Valley area for my friends. However I am specifically concerned about your statement that 1/3 or less listening occurs in cars. Is that terrestrial or does it include satellite?

My personal impression is that there should be more auto listeners and for me that was always true. New York might be a bit different because they commute on public transit but in the Midwest and certainly LA there should be a higher amount of listening while on the road. Why else would satellite radios be standard on cars usually with a one year complementary subscription.

The there is the discussion about requiring FM tuners in mobile devices. The FCC did mandate the end to simulcasting but they did not, in my recollection, mandate FM on car radios or portables back in the day.

 

[davideduardo]

However I am specifically concerned about your statement that 1/3 or less listening occurs in cars. Is that terrestrial or does it include satellite?

All the data is based on the diary markets now and the diary data from current PPM markets before they went to PPM. The PPM does not show the difference between at work and in car listening... just at home and away, so it does not tell us the in-car data- However, the numbers don't change over shorter periods of time so I believe the data to be valid.

My personal impression is that there should be more auto listeners and for me that was always true.

In the diary, the average reported listening time over the last two decades has been between 17 and 21 hours a week(overall less now than 20 years ago, but it varies by market, too). The census tells us average commutes are around 20 minutes, so even if folks who work and who commute use radio the whole time, that's less than 5 hours a week! And lots of people don't commute, or commute by public transit so that brings the in car down even more.

So, while a high perceentage of people listen in the car, they just are not in the car all that long compared to other listening locations.

Midwest and certainly LA there should be a higher amount of listening while on the road.

LA's last diary year showed about 33% of listening to have taken place in the car. Even the diary market with the longest commetes in the US, San Juan, had less than 35% of listening in the car.

Why else would satellite radios be standard on cars usually with a one year complementary subscription.

Satellite radios are subsidized by XM / Sirius, with the hope the car owner will subscribe later. The dealer and the manufacturer get "commissions" on the future subscriptions and that is how they push satellite in the car. And lots and lots of people never buy the paid subscription... I've got two cars with lapsed subscriptions because I did not find satellite useful for short commutes (I do have it in the car I drive across the desert in, although most of the programming is really amateur

Now the math: there are 20 million cars with satellite (since satellite indoors is so problematic that most retail locations don't even have devices for sale for this purpose). Let's say the average person uses the car 6 hours a week... out of 128 hours 6 AM to Midnight. Or a bit under 5% of the time... so on average, only about 900,000 to 1 million subscribers are listening. Considering that in the diary there would be well over 35 million peeps on average listening, that's onlly around 3% of all listening going to satellite. In most markets, there are a number of stations that have two or more times the listening than all the satellite channels combined.

The there is the discussion about requiring FM tuners in mobile devices. The FCC did mandate the end to simulcasting but they did not, in my recollection, mandate FM on car radios or portables back in the day.

No, the mandate was for UHF tuners in TVs, but never dual band capability in radios.

 

[michael hagerty]

While this is a moot point I have wondered, in the 1970s why didn't many of the successful AM stations that had FM outlets matriculate their programming to FM, when FM was becoming popular.

For example, why didn't RKO move and continue the legacy of KHJ on 101.1?

In RKO's case, the issue was timing. In Fall 1973, KKDJ-FM made a real run, taking a rocket ship ride from #21 in fall 1972 to #12..but KHJ inched up to #1 from #2 the same book.

On December 1, 1973, KIQQ-FM (K-100) launched but simply split the available FM Top 40 audience..with KKDJ back to #21 and KIQQ tied for 24th.

KHJ slipped to #2 in the rankings but gained half a point over fall '73 (KABC, which had an unusually weak fall '73, came back big time).

KKDJ bailed out of Top 40 just before the fall '75 book to become KIIS-FM and go Adult Contemporary...which allowed KIQQ, with the FM Top 40 field to itself, to bounce into #13 (with roughly the same share KKDJ had two years earlier when it was the lone FM Top 40).

KHJ was still #2, but down almost a full point.

Fall '76 saw some growth in the FM Top 40 audience...KIQQ picked up half a point, while KHJ lost only a tenth and slipped to third, despite a strong showing from KRLA, which flipped back to (automated) Top 40.

Now this (late 1976/early 1977) is where RKO could have made their move. KRTH's oldies format was at a low point (having gone from 11th to 15th to 18th from fall '74 to fall '76).

Still, though...KHJ was #3, KIQQ was #12...there was more than 2 full share points between them. KRLA, on AM, vaulted past KIQQ in only about six months. And the risk of taking KHJ to FM was that history would repeat itself and all they'd do is split the available FM Top 40 audience, with both stations getting about a 1.6 and ranking in the high to mid 20s.

So RKO flipped KRTH to adult contemporary...and did very well. In Fall '77, KRTH zoomed to #10 with a 3.4 (KRLA abandoned Top 40 to fill the oldies void).

Trouble is that KRTH, being a well-programmed A/C, had a lot of appeal for older KHJ listeners. No doubt some time spent listening to KHJ shifted to KRTH.

Meantime, Top 40 had become a 4-way battle in the fall of 1977. KHJ slipped to #8 with a 3.5 (only a tenth ahead of KRTH), KFI's flip to Top 40 boosted it to #11 with a 3.1, KIQQ fell to 17th with a 2.4 and KTNQ (which debuted on December 26, 1976 with The Real Don Steele in afternoons) managed #18 with a 2.1.

Now, KRTH was too successful to mess with, and there was only a 2.4 in FM Top 40, which, even if KHJ could get it all, would be more than a full point lost.

In fall '78, with John Sebastian's AOR-flavored approach, KHJ fell out of the Top 10 and three-tenths of a point behind KRTH to #12, but still beat KFI, KTNQ and KIQQ.

By fall '79, KRTH was clearly the lead dog...almost a 4 share and #8 overall. KHJ had lost the lead in the Top 40 format....KFI was #10, KHJ was tied for 16th, and KIQQ was tied for 22nd (KTNQ had flipped to Spanish earlier that year).

And that...was that. KHJ went country in time for the Fall 1980 book. And by the time KRTH had another weak spell, where RKO might have considered resurrecting KHJ on FM, KWST (with former KHJ GM Tim Sullivan and jocks Bobby Ocean and Chuck Martin) and KIIS-FM (with former KHJ morning man Rick Dees) had already rushed in to fill the gap. And given that KIIS-FM just plain killed KWST (which sounded like latter-day KHJ on FM), there wasn't much reason to believe it would work at that late date.

Would KRTH have done as well in '77 and beyond if Charlie Tuna, Dr. John Leader, Bobby Ocean, Machine Gun Kelly, Don Cox and Shana had been playing the music? Probably. But at the time, it likely would have been seen as a disaster (KHJ had a 5.3 in fall '76...KRTH's "big" fall '77 number was a 3.4...nearly two points less). And, would an Adult Contemporary version of KHJ still be KHJ? Remember, it wasn't until 1982 that a true Top 40 on FM was a big ratings success in L.A.

Of course, the irony is that eventually, KRTH did end up with KHJ's format (the one from 1966)...ending another weak spell in 1992 by hiring Bill Drake to consult their refreshed oldies format with the Johnny Mann jingles, Robert W. Morgan in mornings, The Real Don Steele in afternoons and (briefly) Humble Harve in the evening.

 

[david]

Michael....great post. Some follow up questions - what do you think was the cause of KHJ's decline? You hinted at John Sebastian's AOR-flavored approach being an influence in its decline. Is it that they were on AM, is it that their signal was a limiting factor as Southern California's suburban sprawl expanded widely during that era? Also, KIQQ was a terrific sounding CHR. Why do you think it did not strike gold?

 

[davideduardo]

Michael....great post. Some follow up questions - what do you think was the cause of KHJ's decline? You hinted at John Sebastian's AOR-flavored approach being an influence in its decline. Is it that they were on AM, is it that their signal was a limiting factor as Southern California's suburban sprawl expanded widely during that era? Also, KIQQ was a terrific sounding CHR. Why do you think it did not strike gold?

One of the biggest things happening in the 1976-1978 period is that KHJ went left and music went right. Good or bad, it was Bee Gees and Donna Summer-time in the US, and KHJ did not get on board. The fragmentation of the LA Top 40 FMs continued, with KISS creating a disruption when it did disco for a while. As things settled back after Funky Town, the historical preferences were broken and KIIS had its chance to take over #1.

Keep in mind that not so many years later (87) the "legendary" KMET would adopt Yanni as its poster child, a sure sign that rock was not the growth format in the market.

As always, hindsight does a good job of reading the fine print we can't see up ahead.

 

[amisdead]

And lots and lots of people never buy the paid subscription... I've got two cars with lapsed subscriptions because I did not find satellite useful for short commutes (I do have it in the car I drive across the desert in, although most of the programming is really amateur

I too have several old radios that have lapsed subscriptions. I also agree with you about a lot of the programming being amateurish. But why is that?

SiriusXM Hits 1 probably has a larger total cume than KIIS of Z100 because of their national signal. The Highway is likely bigger than 99.5 The Wolf (or any other country station for that matter). These national satellite stations should be a lot better than they are. Any theories as to why they are so bush league?