• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

MT. WILSON FIRE THREAT?

oaktree said:
Someone at CBS 2 told Amelia Earhart that the elevation of Mt. Wilson was 7500 feet. Not quite. It's 5507, or close to it, I believe.
Click to expand...

Several results from Googling indicate +/- 5700 feet. My 2010 Rand McNally
atlas has it as 5710 feet.

Is the big cluster of sticks on Mt. Wilson proper? I think some earlier posts in
this thread noted there were several peaks, collectively known for simplicity as
Mt. Wilson, each with some towers. Scott?
 
All three TV network morning shows did live updates at 7:00 PT, at least
for the left coast and Arizona (I don't know if Mountain time zone stations
got this or the usual two-hour old feeds at 8:00 MT).

While NBC did the fire until 7:08 PT, ABC and CBS spent only about half as
much time on the story.
 
National media is reporting that, even if Mt. Wilson transmitters burn, "people with satellite and Cable TV will not be affected" (where have I heard THAT before?).

Of course, Cable TV needs electrical power to stay on, and I wonder how all that atmospheric debris will affect nearby satellite reception. How is the electric power holding up in the area? Any widespread outages?
How about CATV distribution? I'd imagine that some major trunk lines may be damaged.

Also, if Mt. Wilson burns, how will this affect ground-based ENG coverage? I suspect that chopper live shots can hit the studios in many cases, but how many ENG RX sites are available, without relaying through Mt. Wilson? I'm trying to remember the layout from the "Trucker TV" testing a few years ago...seems like there are several sites, but some used Wilson as part of the path.
 
You are correct. It is 5710. Oddly, I had that, then changed it, and came up with 5507 and got tired and said, "Oh, what's a few feet." Then CBS 2 said, "5700" and I said, "Heck with it." But you're right and you get a free, all expenses paid bungee jump from the 975 foot level of the CBS tower when the smoke, heat and flames arrive. Should be fun. I'll send you the video!
 
This question is probably moot but I'll ask anyways. I don't have cable. I haven't for over 15 years. When Wilson gets obliterated what kind of turn around will it take time wise to get tv signals back on? Will most stations see rebuilding as a lost cause and stay dark permanently except for cable/sat delivery? Could San Diego get a temporary power increase to fill as much of LA as possible?
 
Robnoxious said:
This question is probably moot but I'll ask anyways. I don't have cable. I haven't for over 15 years. When Wilson gets obliterated what kind of turn around will it take time wise to get tv signals back on? Will most stations see rebuilding as a lost cause and stay dark permanently except for cable/sat delivery? Could San Diego get a temporary power increase to fill as much of LA as possible?
Click to expand...
No station will want to stay dark permanently and lose their license. A loss of license will also exclude them from any must carry leverage with cable companies, etc. Should the fire damage any property, insurance will help cover most of the cost of rebuilding.
 
wow, such optimism LOL

alright, cranking up the power at san diego is a no go. no matter how much power you use, tv signals are pretty much line of sight. the san diego stations are on several relatively low mountain tops and there is no chance what so ever for them to hit the los angeles area with a workable signal.

if the hill has a full meltdown (highly unlikely), you will probably see some effort to put some sort of temporary stations in place to handle the major networks. for example... one functioning hd tv transmitter (the kind that are now used post HD conversion) could easily handle transmitting the 3 tv networks in medium resolution. truthfully you could probably squeeze 5 workable old style low resolution signals on one transmitter. you would need the transmitter (could be airlifted in i suppose). a working generator (again airlifted) an antenna, a working stl, and something to put the antenna on.
if someone was smart they could have all this ready on the ground and set it up probably within a few days. you could also do the same think on a nearby mountaintop. you wouldn't want to go to far because most peoples antennas are aimed at wilson, and the farther away you go, the bigger mess you have. on the other hand, if the fire trashes everything you may not have a choice.

here is likely what would happen if we actually have the sites catch fire. some towers will survive, some antennas will survive, some transmitters, etc. you take the piece parts and put together something that works while long term repairs are made. you would undoubtedly see more facility sharing. for example if everything channel 2 and 9 uses to transmit burns up, you would probably see some other station allow them to piggyback on their digital subchannels. figure something like channel 2 being on channel 5.3 and channel 9 on channel 11.2 or whatever. sort of a mutual aid.

i am curious about how much generator time we have up there. i don't know how long the hilltop can provide its own power, and i suspect getting gas in their is a major no go and probably will be for awhile. i am reading reports that the road up and down the hill is thrashed. apparently the fire has caused some minor landslide and has burned off all the signs and guardrails on the already narrow little road. hopefully someone can give us an update.

as far as fm radio goes. you will see the stations that have backup sites (off the mountain) switch to those if they have not already. i believe cbs stations 93.1 94.7 and 101.1 have facilities have full backup operations already built down at the kroq site (which is not on mount wilson). not sure that 94.7 is backed up off the hill but i know 93.1 and 104.7 are...

100.3 has a license down where 98.7 transmits from (also not on wilson) -- i assume they have a transmitter there and ready to go..

some of the stations like 93.9 97.1 and 105.9 moved up off of lower peaks like flint peak and may still have available backup facilities there. i will have to start pulling license data out of the computer and making some calls.

stations like 90.7 89.3 107.5 101.9 95.5 and 92.3 might have the hardest time..

clear channel has construction permits for their stations 92.3 102.7 103.5 104.3 to build backup facilities down at the 98.7 fm site (trousdale estates)... whether any of these have been built or not i don't know. the construction permits have dates on them from july i believe.... we shall see what is ready to go if the hill burns up.

hope that helps
 
CORRECTION!!

not sure that 94.7 is backed up off the hill but i know 93.1 and 104.7 are...
-----

that should have read --- 93.1 and 101.1 have working backups down at the kroq site

there is no 104.7 in this market (apparently i should sleep rather than watch endless fire coverage ;)
 
A few years ago, after Hurricane Katrina, I was "doodling" during lunch, thinking about what kind of Disaster Plan stations might have available in these major cases.

I thought about having a few sets of truck/trailer combos that could roll in to an area, with a mini-studio/master control combo, and a multi-station transmission vehicle, so they could be dispatched as needed.
A few months later, at NAB, I saw the MediaFLO backup transmission truck on display. They bought three of them, and each is capable of rolling in to a damaged transmitter site, raising a huge mast, and transmitting (COFDM) using R&S transmitters. I think they said there was enough fuel on-board to run for eight days.

Too bad that the NAB and FEMA couldn't have something similar available, with certain stations in each market buying in on the "insurance" plan. Any rebuild at Mount Wilson would require a huge clean-up effort, followed by diversion of "nearly ready to ship" transmitters, antennas and other equipment, from other customers. Hopefully, a second (hurricane??) disaster wouldn't happen right on top of a fire like this.

Of course, an even bigger concern for ALL broadcasters, is....what if most all the TV and FM stations were destroyed, and no one felt it necessary to rebuild with a "mature" technology, like OTA broadcasting?
What would the (permanent) loss of the #2 market's broadcast stations do to the rest of us?
That's almost as scary as the fire itself.
 
I know CBS has such a back-up vehicle for FM stations. It was used a while back when fire struck the KFRG 95.1 site in San Bernardino.
 
While I am extremely frustrated about what has happend to OTA broadcasting, I think think we are a long long way from the day when damaged facilities aren't rebuilt. I think if this fire does anything to the Wilson facilities you will see a pretty rapid response -- even considering the horrible state of the business.

Alot of this business is boiling down to how big of splash you can make. Even if you could get by with just using cable, satellite, and the internet, you would want to keep your broadcast facility. It gives you something that your competitors may not have - and in a world where anyone can start streaming and being a broadcaster -- you need to stand out and be the kid with the biggest stick, or at least close to it.
 
I wonder how many smaller stations would even consider rebuilding to the grand scale of what is currently up there, though, considering the current economy, and the kind of competition that a "no local news presence" station may have in the future.

And, given the widely-noted DTV "reception problems" we are hearing about, would stations maybe consider distributed-transmission sites across the old coverage area, rather than a huge, full-power central transmitter.
 
There was a question about back-up sites for the four Clear Channel FM's that are on Mt. Wilson. I made a call to a friend who works in Burbank and was told that there are back-ups ready to go at two of their AM sites. KIIS-FM and HOT 92 would broadcast from their Briarcrest site and KBIG/MyFm and KOST can broadcast from their 1150 AM site in Montecito Heights. This would severely limit them, but they would stay on the air.
 
I think that's a great point. I bet if it all burned down, we would get a low budget install at best. Even more likely, some temp replacements that become permanent because there is no money and/or interest in "doing it right" from these bankrupt shells.

Thanks for the update on the clear channel stations -- sounds like they at least have a plan.
 
What about Sunset Ridge where 24 and 30 are ,wouldn't that site be a good back up if Mt. Wilson is destroyed.
 
2 thoughts,

Im sure that most broadcasters are fully insured for replacement cost of their facilities, so if they dont rebuild them to spec that would raise questions with the insurance company.

second, i think most stations could be back on fairly quick since the actual towers and antennas structures would likely be safe given their height and metal construction. All they would need is portable building and associated gear.
 
Exactly. Obviously the transmitter facilities and buildings on site are in the most danger, but I don't think the flames are gonna damage any of the equipment on the towers. My question is just how hot does the fire have to be to take out guy wires or anchors on the ground that could topple the actual towers? Is that what the thinking is here?
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom