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Municipal Cable Companies-Massena

J

jiminCT

Guest
There has been legislation put forth by Massena councilman Wicke and Senator Schumer to bring forth and build a municipal cable company as a means to stem the rapidly increasing cable rates put forth by Time Warner and the satellite companies. Just wondering what peoples thoughts are one this. I'm wondering if the competition will really help, or if its just a way to keep more the discretionary money in Massena in the town coffers.
 
This is the first I've heard of this (I could go searching for a news article, but it's late and I'm too lazy/tired to look) but it sounds pretty interesting. But, I highly doubt it goes any further than just 2 lawmakers blowing hot air around.

First of all, the town/village would have to either buy the existing Time Warner infrastructure or build its own from scratch. That's not cheap. Not only are you buying miles and miles of cable, you also have to obtain permission to hang it on the utility poles. In many cases, that's a matter of paying rent to either the power company or the phone company. If the town thinks it's going to just "take" the infrastructure for free, the town should be ready to get sued by Time Warner, and whatever other utility companies would be involved.

The town/village (whichever one we're talking about) would also have to hire the technicians to build and maintain the system. Not just the headquarters, but also taking care of installing new customers, disconnecting old ones, and so forth. If you want people who know what they're doing, you'll probably have to hire them away from Time Warner, and that means paying them more than what TW pays them.

All in all, we're talking millions of dollars, and that's just for the initial rollout. Then there's the ongoing costs of keeping the entire system powered and maintained, and dealing with the various programming providers. The main reason the cable and satellite companies raise costs, is because the companies that put out the programming raise costs. The town or village would wind up in the same boat -- passing along higher programming fees to its own customers. Just because it's run by the government doesn't mean it will be better and cheaper.

How do you pay for the initial rollout? Monthly subscription fees won't raise enough revenue, even if every single household signed up for the service. You'd have to raise taxes and/or borrow money (which also means raising taxes). That's an unjust tax on people who don't use the system, especially if the municipal system winds up being inferior to the commercially-available systems. And then what happens when the town/village realizes "hey, this was a bad idea" five years down the road? Will TW eagerly come back, or will they tell Massena to take a flying leap?


There are ways the government can attack the problem of rising cable/satellite rates, but this isn't the right way to go about doing it. They need to approach it from a different angle. Anyone who is familiar with the way cable channels are bundled and priced should know exactly what I'm getting at. If you're not familiar, do a little Googling on the topic. Once you see who owns what channels, and how these package deals work, you'll see THAT is where the government needs to focus. "All-or-nothing" deals where carrying one or two popular channels means you also have to carry 10-15 of the parent company's crappier channels... those are what need to be done away with.

And let's also remember, cable isn't a NECESSITY. It's a luxury. Nobody HAS to have cable. In a remote place like Massena, cable may be necessary to see the nearest broadcast stations... but even then, basic cable is still very affordable. If Joe Q. Public wants to voluntarily subscribe to the deluxe digital package with HBO, Skinemax and Showtime, that's his decision. Nobody's making him pay $150 a month.
 
I think one variable to consider is the delivery method. Massena does not have to go with the standard cable TV infrastructure. Wireless cable is an option.

Personally, I feel like an a-la-carte programming option would be best for the customer. Pay for what you want to watch. The cable TV company I worked for used to pay the programming suppliers a fee based on per paying household. A-la-carte is not beneficial for the cable companies because it effectively negates the concept that people have to pay for programming that they dont watch.

Personally, I also think Massena is thiking along the lines of Citizens Cable that serves Alex Bay and Hammond. They have refused to sell out to Time Warner, despite many attempts to do so. Much of the sentiment from the towns basically is to "keep the money in local hands".
 
I think one variable to consider is the delivery method. Massena does not have to go with the standard cable TV infrastructure. Wireless cable is an option. ATT U-Verse is an internet based deliver...why couldnt they do that.

Personally, I feel like an a-la-carte programming option would be best for the customer. Pay for what you want to watch. The cable TV company I worked for used to pay the programming suppliers a fee based on per paying household. A-la-carte is not beneficial for the cable companies because it effectively negates the concept that people have to pay for programming that they dont watch.


Personally, I also think Massena is thiking along the lines of Citizens Cable that serves Alex Bay and Hammond. They have refused to sell out to Time Warner, despite many attempts to do so. Some of the sentiment from the towns basically is to "keep the money in local hands".
 
With what cable has and will have in the future, municipal cable will become obsolete pretty quick.

The town might better just make a deal with Dish Network or someone. Of course that would include carriage of Watertown channels :).
 
jiminCT said:
ATT U-Verse is an internet based deliver...why couldnt they do that.

Via Road Runner? ;)

Just kidding. I did forget about wireless cable... which I first heard about only in the past year or so. It is much more common in other countries, but a couple of systems here in the US are known to use it. Odd though, for being so cost-effective, that more places don't use it. You'd think this would be a no-brainer for anyone who'd want to bring a low-cost alternative into any community... but Verizon's FiOS systems are going with fiber just like TimeWarner, and most other competitors are either satellite companies, or a middle-man for satellite (like when Verizon bundles satellite with DSL in non-FiOS areas).

Still, wireless or not... is Massena big enough to support a standalone, government-operated cable system? Wikipedia quotes the 2000 census having 4800 households in the Village of Massena. The two communities where wireless cable is known to exist are considerably larger -- 15,000 households in Lima, Ohio and 6,500 households in Kirksville, MO.

While I understand the cost-savings of wireless cable, there's still a lot of expensive gear that goes into building the head-end. You may not have to deal with running long cables, but you have to deal with transmitters and receivers. At least when you're building all this for 10,000 people, the cost per customer is half as much as when you're building it for only 5,000 customers. And that's under the assumption every household in town will subscribe. I'm sure there are many folks already locked in with satellite who either can't or wouldn't want to change... and there's always those who can't afford it or don't watch enough TV to justify paying for cable. Realistically, we're down to the 3500-4000 subscriber range. Is that enough? Maybe for a large company that's also providing cable to the rest of the region, where losses in one area can be made up by profits elsewhere.
 
Good catch on the internet. I guess Verizon's FIOS would be a natural competitor to Time Warner. I have to agree with the cost considerations of municipal cable. If this were a larger market, it probably would be more viable. You'd have to make a very compelling case to switch providers too...
 
jiminCT said:
Good catch on the internet. I guess Verizon's FIOS would be a natural competitor to Time Warner.

FiOS is definitely creating plenty of buzz in the Syracuse area. But Verizon is moving pretty slowly with the rollout... and likely as a move to recoup their investment as quickly as possible, they're only rolling out in the "better" suburbs of Syracuse for now. Considering it's taken a couple of years and they still don't even have Syracuse entirely covered... I wouldn't hold my breath for Verizon's arrival in far-flung places like Massena.

Then again, think back 10 years or so, and you can probably remember how long it took Time Warner to wire the entire area with fiber. Who knows what other kinds of technologies could show up within another 5-10 years. Now that cell phone companies can deliver internet and live TV to cell phones... maybe Verizon's already working on ways to deliver "cable" to full-size TVs over their existing wireless cell network. The technology may be several years away, but I'd bet it's in the works and it'll probably go public quicker than Verizon could string fiber all over the place. In the end, why waste the money for fiber if it could be obsolete in 5 years?

The more I think of it, the more I think your idea of "wireless cable" may not be so far-fetched after all... I'd just expect it to come from Verizon, rather than a municipal system.
 
The technology for delivering high-speed Internet and IP-based TV will depend on two things:

1. Population density.

2. Ability to pay.

Verizon is rolling out FiOS in parts of Syracuse, Buffalo, & Long Island. In many cases, they're targeting wealthier suburbs, and especially those wealthier suburbs with older infrastructure and large numbers of potential subscribers that can't get DSL. FiOS will offer very high speed Internet, phone service, and HD-TV bundled into a price point that will make Time-Warner wince. You can even tack on Verizon Wireless and save even more. Verizon has negotiated franchise agreements in several areas that will allow them to feed HD-TV over the fiber, and they've got the bandwidth to offer several uncompressed HD channels and 10/20MB Internet service simultaneously.

DSL is the option available to areas with lower population density and lots of existing copper. As long as you're within about 3 miles of a switching office, that will likely be your high-speed choice from Verizon. They're working on technology to upgrade DSL speeds, but there's doubt that they'll get capacity up to HD-TV quality without LOTS of compression - i.e. satellite HD quality.

Once you get to areas of lower population density, you're probably talking a wireless technology like WiMax or 4G cellular. Verizon is under pressure to resolve the "digital divide" between cities and rural areas, but it's just not economical to string fiber in the boonies.

Messina isn't likely to see FiOS because they just don't have the population density. For areas in town, Verizon will likely offer DSL. Otherwise, you may be looking at a wireless solution like WiMax or 4G cellular. One big problem is the number of wireless channels is limited, and you've got issues like 2-way communication, on-demand services, streaming to multiple receivers in a single household, and line-of-sight antenna issues.

I believe that Verizon intends to make Time-Warner squeal. T-W has been trying to stick it to Verizon over TV franchise rights and carriage of non-voice communications while rolling out their own competing phone service. Verizon is likely to look for a little payback, especially in areas when they've invested in FiOS and can deliver superior quality video and higher speed Internet.

Municipal utilities have worked well for telephone and electrical service in several areas of the state, including Rochester. One big problem for TV is that you'd have to negotiate carriage rights for a single market, giving you little leverage with program providers. Time-Warner has a much bigger stick, and will get much better pricing than your little muni system.
 
SirRoxalot said:
Municipal utilities have worked well for telephone and electrical service in several areas of the state, including Rochester.

Say what, Rox?

Rochester Telephone, while an "independent" telco separate from the New York Tel/Ma Bell monopoly across most of the rest of the state, was never a municipal operation. It was a privately-owned company, and still is, albeit now under the Frontier brand and owned by a company out of Connecticut.

RG&E was always a private utility as well, and is now owned by Spain's Iberdrola.

The only truly municipal utility out this way is Fairport Electric, and residents of that fine village on the east side of town do indeed enjoy lower power bills than the rest of us in Monroe County.
 
A Learning Experience

I guess that I'm showing my lack of Rochester-specific knowlege, huh? I thought that the old RTE was originally a muni. I know that it has been sold - multiple times if I'm not mistaken. Same with RG&E.

Well, one of the things about this board is that you learn something new every day.
 
The oddity is I have what used to be the Rochester phone company and I live up here around Boonville. Lewis and the northern half of Oneida (expect for Camden, maybe?) have Frontier instead of Verizon. I never saw why.
 
cnymike said:
The oddity is I have what used to be the Rochester phone company and I live up here around Boonville. Lewis and the northern half of Oneida (expect for Camden, maybe?) have Frontier instead of Verizon. I never saw why.

Frontier's corporate parent is Citizens Telephone, which bought up a whole bunch of small independent telcos in places like Boonville in the 80s and 90s and put the Frontier branding on them. None of those little indies had any connection to the old RochTel - they just ended up under the same corporate parent later on.
 
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