Music: Another One Bites The Dust

[mwebster]

Another major market public radio station has dumped local music programming in favor national news and public affairs programs.

Bottom line: Music lovers are cheapskates during pledge week. As in other markets, they will whine, moan and complain, but they brought in on themselves.

Detroit Free Press
<blockquote>WDET amps up NPR, tunes down local music
Things are about to sound a lot different at Detroit's public radio station. Today, the weekday schedule at WDET-FM (101.9) will go all news and talk -- including a hefty dose of National Public Radio (NPR) -- and replace the locally generated music shows that had long distinguished the station from most of its national peers.
Read Full Article
</blockquote>

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

While WDET will still run music programming at nights and on parts of the weekend, that probably won't be the case for much longer.

Within a couple of years, WDET may be running 24/7 NPR news and information.

Even with the programming changes, there are still a number of NPR (and other public radio) news/information programs not being run on WDET.

If WDET finds that their remaining music programming doesn't attract much in the way of pledge $$$, the rest of the music will go away.

 

[XL]

> While WDET will still run music programming at nights and on
> parts of the weekend, that probably won't be the case for
> much longer.
>
> Within a couple of years, WDET may be running 24/7 NPR news
> and information.
>
> Even with the programming changes, there are still a number
> of NPR (and other public radio) news/information programs
> not being run on WDET.
>
> If WDET finds that their remaining music programming doesn't
> attract much in the way of pledge $$$, the rest of the music
> will go away.

This is not necessarily true Joseph. Stations do not pledge 24/7, so therefore, stations that are cutting back their music offerings in prime dayparts, most likely will not cut/eliminate them at night (late-night/overnights/early morning), since most public radio stations do not pledge in the middle of the night.

Mwebster hit it on the head: music listeners ARE cheapskates and when the music they're used to it cut back or eliminated, THEN they whine and moan about it and offer empty threats like "I'm not going to pledge to XXXX again".

Well, if they would've pledged to begin with, their music offerings would (most likely) still be around. It's public radio on public support. Public ain't supportin' it.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

> Bottom line: Music lovers are cheapskates during pledge
> week. As in other markets, they will whine, moan and
> complain, but they brought in on themselves.
>
It’s kind of ironic when you think of it but when you figure in the cost factor, a news-talk format can be more expensive than a music format; at least on commercial radio. Yet more and more public radio stations are opting to dump their music formats in favor of news and talk. For those listeners who enjoy news and talk, that’s a good thing. Not so good if you are into classical, jazz or other forms of music.

I don’t know what’s going on in the Detroit market but I can enlighten you to what is happening here in Rochester New York. The public radio station has a classical music format on its 20kw FM station, with a repeater station in the southern tier of New York State. Even with this vast coverage the FM station has experienced some serious audience erosion in the past few years. I attribute this audience erosion to three things.
One, the music selection pales in comparison to a commercial station out of Toronto (CMFX) that plays classical music. The second is the audience for classical music is dying off. And third, you maybe correct about music listeners being tight with the purse strings.

Meanwhile the AM news talk station, which is a 5kw non-directional daytime and directional at night, used to pull in more pledge money than the FM station; at least when I worked there. Whether that’s the case now I have no idea since I left the station almost two years ago. But I was always amazed how much money we pulled down on the AM side, especially during morning and afternoon drive, compared to our FM cousins who had the advantage of a more powerful signal and wider coverage area.

It’s very interesting to read that more and more public stations are scraping their music formats for news and talk. When it was suggested a few years ago at the station where I worked that the news/talk format be moved to the FM and the classical music format to AM, the management thought it was a ludicrous idea. In hindsight I think those of us who suggested swapping formats were thinking out of the box and it was management that was wearing blinders.
<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>

 

[mwebster]

If history is any guide, public radio stations that drop music during the midday period (between ME and ATC) usually end up dropping or cutting back on music during evenings and over-nights. First reaction is to think along the lines you suggest and placate the whiners and moaners with evening music. (No, it doesn't keep them quiet.) And there is something to be said for formatting: Cume and TSL tend to build with a consistent format. So even if a news-information station does not do pledge drives in the off-hours, staying with news and information programming full time indirectly affects pledging. And at least in larger markets, stations do continue pledge activity into the evening.

I don't know what it is about music listeners but they seem to have a sense of entitlement - especially classical listeners. Funny thing is they won't pledge, but they will go out and buy CD's, mp3's and satellite radios.

>
> This is not necessarily true Joseph. Stations do not pledge
> 24/7, so therefore, stations that are cutting back their
> music offerings in prime dayparts, most likely will not
> cut/eliminate them at night (late-night/overnights/early
> morning), since most public radio stations do not pledge in
> the middle of the night.
>
> Mwebster hit it on the head: music listeners ARE
> cheapskates and when the music they're used to it cut back
> or eliminated, THEN they whine and moan about it and offer
> empty threats like "I'm not going to pledge to XXXX again".
>

 

[testing]

It just doesn't make good programming sense to have a dual/triple or more-format station in a large market with other available options. I don't know the detroit market, but I bet there are plenty of classical/jazz/other music alternatives from their own market and even canada from the CBC. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong!






> If history is any guide, public radio stations that drop
> music during the midday period (between ME and ATC) usually
> end up dropping or cutting back on music during evenings and
> over-nights. First reaction is to think along the lines you
> suggest and placate the whiners and moaners with evening
> music. (No, it doesn't keep them quiet.) And there is
> something to be said for formatting: Cume and TSL tend to
> build with a consistent format. So even if a
> news-information station does not do pledge drives in the
> off-hours, staying with news and information programming
> full time indirectly affects pledging. And at least in
> larger markets, stations do continue pledge activity into
> the evening.
>
> I don't know what it is about music listeners but they seem
> to have a sense of entitlement - especially classical
> listeners. Funny thing is they won't pledge, but they will
> go out and buy CD's, mp3's and satellite radios.
>
> >
> > This is not necessarily true Joseph. Stations do not
> pledge
> > 24/7, so therefore, stations that are cutting back their
> > music offerings in prime dayparts, most likely will not
> > cut/eliminate them at night (late-night/overnights/early
> > morning), since most public radio stations do not pledge
> in
> > the middle of the night.
> >
> > Mwebster hit it on the head: music listeners ARE
> > cheapskates and when the music they're used to it cut back
>
> > or eliminated, THEN they whine and moan about it and offer
>
> > empty threats like "I'm not going to pledge to XXXX
> again".
> >
>

 

[Ai4i]

I am now paying for six and a half fantastic classical music streams, and loving them.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology</P>

 

[uncamark]

> Another major market public radio station has dumped local
> music programming in favor national news and public affairs
> programs.
>
> Bottom line: Music lovers are cheapskates during pledge
> week. As in other markets, they will whine, moan and
> complain, but they brought in on themselves.

The thing I find interesting is that this is a AAA format, not jazz or classical--and AAA is supposedly the music format that will be the savior of music on public radio.

And you knew this was going to happen:

http://www.mediabuyerplanner.com/2005/12/29/detroit_npr_listeners_sue_over/index.php

The thing I find interesting is that "Democracy Now!" is one of the shows WDET has picked up. This has to be the first major market where that show is on a mainstream public station, not a Pacifica or community station--the only pubcasters that show tends to be on are smaller markets.

 

[DougD]

WHere?

> It just doesn't make good programming sense to have a
> dual/triple or more-format station in a large market with
> other available options.

I don't know the detroit market,
> but I bet there are plenty of classical/jazz/other music
> alternatives from their own market and even canada from the
> CBC. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong!
>
Are you out of your mind?

There 'taint many music formats around anymore. Classical on public radio is usually the only place you'll find that format, if it's found anywhere.

The music's old, the listeners are old, and radio just doesn't want older listeners anymore. Look what has happened to "oldies" radio. Very few so-called oldies stations play oldies anymore. THey're mostly 70s and 80s now with a few late - AND OVERPLAYED - 60s songs thrown in for grins.

 

[testing]

Re: WHere?

Are you out of your mind?
>
> There 'taint many music formats around anymore. Classical on
> public radio is usually the only place you'll find that
> format, if it's found anywhere.
>
> The music's old, the listeners are old, and radio just
> doesn't want older listeners anymore. Look what has happened
> to "oldies" radio. Very few so-called oldies stations play
> oldies anymore. THey're mostly 70s and 80s now with a few
> late - AND OVERPLAYED - 60s songs thrown in for grins.

Yes, Doug, I am out of my mind, but that has nothing to do with it!

a brief websearch turns up a list of stations that *apparently* can be heard in the metro Detroit market:

WEMU-- Jazz and NPR
WRCJ-- "We are classical and Jazz"
WGTE-- Classical and NPR

That's not counting any canadian stations that can be heard in Detroit.

Maybe WDET dumping music isn't such a tragedy after all.

 

[Ai4i]

Re: WHere?

> That's not counting any canadian stations that can be heard
> in Detroit.
>

If I lived in Detroit, I would definitely drive with a Canadian DAB receiver.
<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
______________</P>