Music beds MUST go!

[Insideradio]

Who thought music beds were a good idea? I was up early and decided to check out Jimmy Baron's opening segment and then flipped over to Rock 100 to listen to the Regular Guys opener. I couldn't tell ya what they were talking about because of their F**KING music beds drowning them out. WHY? You want to use music to introduce your show, fine... but to go on for 5-10 minutes with dumb music underneath you is RIDICULOUS! It was so distracting.

I get music beds for traffic, maybe even CHR breaks but for MORNING RADIO? No wonder I hate terrestrial radio. Morning radio should be conversational, real, like we're all sitting at a table shooting the sh*t... Think about having a conversation with your friend and some dude holding up a boom box with silly music loudly in the back round for your whole conversation... Stupid!

Update... just flipped back to RG's... STILL TALKING WITH MUSIC BEDS.

 

[DToTheJ]

I get music beds for traffic, maybe even CHR breaks but for MORNING RADIO? ... Morning radio should be conversational, real, like we're all sitting at a table shooting the sh*t... Think about having a conversation with your friend and some dude holding up a boom box with silly music loudly in the back round for your whole conversation...

Or worse, a jukebox playing in the background...

Who do the Regular Guys think they are, Scott Ferrall? "Shake it uuuuuuuuuuuuup!"

 

[amlover]

I've always thought music beds were a BAD IDEA. They really need to go!

 

[Rogue]

A certain and so-called at the time "famous and celebrated consultant" explained it to me long ago, when I was but a peon "DJ".... "you've got to keep things MOVING for the Moronic people, John!".

That guy was "majoring in the minors" in a major way, and I knew it for a fact.

Compelling content RULES, no matter the source - be it talk or tunes.

 

[livingfruitvirus]

I've always thought music beds were a BAD IDEA. They really need to go!

Completely. If you have to use a music bed, you might as well admit you're boring.

While we're at it, can we get rid of the applause sound effect?

 

[littlejohn]

It is not uncommon for the monitor processing to behave differently than the air processing, particularly on low level audio. Consequently, what sounds like a reasonably low level to the jock in his headphnoes ends up being overwhelming when the on air processor gets through munging it. This would normally be caught on a true air check... but few if any actually do telescopes of the air product, or review them with the PD.

 

[agentUrge]

I hear this a lot on BBC...but usually it's them talking over the music they're playing but often times it's the kind of music that allows them to get away with it. Not to mention that those particular programs just mix the tunes into each other so the "break" is really them talking even if they're only talking about music. That's BBC, though.

I wouldn't mind it if it were done well...I just don't think I've heard anyone do it well yet.

 

[Rogue]

It is not uncommon for the monitor processing to behave differently than the air processing, particularly on low level audio. Consequently, what sounds like a reasonably low level to the jock in his headphnoes ends up being overwhelming when the on air processor gets through munging it.

Good point, and why I always wanted the actual finished/compressed product fed through the monitors and headphone jacks.

Nothing else ever made any sense to me.

 

[firepoint525]

I've always thought music beds were a BAD IDEA. They really need to go!

Completely. If you have to use a music bed, you might as well admit you're boring.
While we're at it, can we get rid of the applause sound effect?

I remember when a new GM took over a station that I was working for at the time, and I cringed when I noticed that he had carted off sound effects like applause and laughter for his morning show! : I thought, great, he is going to take us back 30 years! :

 

[firepoint525]

I would much rather that jocks and stations use music beds (as long as they are only 30 seconds or so, and not the longer versions that some of you have mentioned here) than to talk all over the intros and outros of songs! That is a pet peeve of mine!

 

[bnaivar]

I would much rather that jocks and stations use music beds (as long as they are only 30 seconds or so, and not the longer versions that some of you have mentioned here) than to talk all over the intros and outros of songs! That is a pet peeve of mine!

I used to have a PD that demanded that we do just that, to keep listeners from recording the songs.

 

[littlejohn]

Uh, Rogue, the air product is anywhere from eight to twenty or thirty seconds behind the jock, depending on the amount fo profanity delay and time alignment for HD coding. Even if you choose to barefoot it - a potentially very expensive proposition given the 'fleeting profanity' rule - most modern processors add some latency. Whether or not it's enough to put the jock off is up to the individual, but realistically ain't nobody monitoring air while they're talking anymore.
Now, you can either duplicate the air chain (AKA the fifteen grand headphone amp) or use something less expensive and get it close. And while a five hundred dollar box does a credible job, it may fall down here and there - maybe even in the ability to level and loud up the product in a different way.
Of course, some attention to the sound of the product and pride in what's being done would likely alleviate this problem, but these things don't seem to happen in today's industry. It's this attitude which weaves the basket in which the industry is headed to hell.

 

[TheBigA]

To me, it depends on the format. Conversational works if you're aiming at 45+. But if you're aiming at younger demos, it needs a more up-beat presentation. And I know some jocks who would turn their music show into a talk show if there wasn't some boundaries. The length of the bed is one way to do it.

Some DJs can sound a little tired, and a little bed music can give them a little tempo. Helps them pace their presentation. But bad choices in bed music can ruin a show. Some gross sounding electric guitar sounds pretty bad when you're talking about baby formula.

The problem with beds, and I saw this early in the thread, is when the level is set so it's too loud and obliterates the DJ. But if it's not too loud, it can add a produced and polished sound to a show.

 

[Rogue]

Uh, Rogue, the air product is anywhere from eight to twenty or thirty seconds behind the jock, depending on the amount fo profanity delay and time alignment for HD coding. Even if you choose to barefoot it - a potentially very expensive proposition given the 'fleeting profanity' rule - most modern processors add some latency. Whether or not it's enough to put the jock off is up to the individual, but realistically ain't nobody monitoring air while they're talking anymore.
Now, you can either duplicate the air chain (AKA the fifteen grand headphone amp) or use something less expensive and get it close. And while a five hundred dollar box does a credible job, it may fall down here and there - maybe even in the ability to level and loud up the product in a different way.
Of course, some attention to the sound of the product and pride in what's being done would likely alleviate this problem, but these things don't seem to happen in today's industry. It's this attitude which weaves the basket in which the industry is headed to hell.

Good to know, it's interesting information and insight.

I realized the limitations relating to talk formats in particular right after I posted.

In my days (damn, saying that makes me feel old) of mostly top 40 and music formats, we always went straight to the shack with audio in real time. Any requests/contests we're done and edited during the songs then set up "live" and played back to sound as if it were real time... It was an art form and usually done over an intro or, *gasp*, a MUSIC BED!

It's funny how things like that are such a lost art today... If you nailed a prime shift, full time on a contender in those days you were walking up intros, hitting the post and selling those calls right at the vocal, seamlessly, in your sleep.

Hearing someone like Randy in mornings over at True Oldies still display those kind of skills is a real treat to hear in this day and age.

 

[firepoint525]

I would much rather that jocks and stations use music beds (as long as they are only 30 seconds or so, and not the longer versions that some of you have mentioned here) than to talk all over the intros and outros of songs! That is a pet peeve of mine!

I used to have a PD that demanded that we do just that, to keep listeners from recording the songs.

The joke's on them! Back when I was a kid and used to record music off the radio, I didn't care if the jock talked over the intro, just so I got the song recorded! But now, as a casual listener, it actually irritates me more to hear a jock babble on and on, right up to the very millisecond that the vocal starts. That is unprofessional, in my opinion. And it also annoys me when they cut the song short at the end and don't let it finish!

 

[secondchoice]

I would much rather that jocks and stations use music beds (as long as they are only 30 seconds or so, and not the longer versions that some of you have mentioned here) than to talk all over the intros and outros of songs! That is a pet peeve of mine!

There was a practical reason that “talking up, ramping up, talking up, or what ever you called it" the intro was a around when I started. Any body under 30 will not believe this but a lot of the music was played on turntables with real vinyl records. You had to cue up the records in audition to the very first note of the song then back up the turntable a quarter to a half a turn. A couple of hundred cuing ups later; there was a cue “burn” for the first second or two of the record. It is a very bad sound unless you are doing rap. So a “good” DJ would start the record very low and hope the song fading would cover the cue burn or you talk “over” the cue burn.

 

[DToTheJ]

If you're a fan of "cue burn," you'll like this post/thread ;D:
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=162360.msg1389853#msg1389853

 

[firepoint525]

I would much rather that jocks and stations use music beds (as long as they are only 30 seconds or so, and not the longer versions that some of you have mentioned here) than to talk all over the intros and outros of songs! That is a pet peeve of mine!

There was a practical reason that “talking up, ramping up, talking up, or what ever you called it" the intro was a around when I started. Any body under 30 will not believe this but a lot of the music was played on turntables with real vinyl records. You had to cue up the records in audition to the very first note of the song then back up the turntable a quarter to a half a turn. A couple of hundred cuing ups later; there was a cue “burn” for the first second or two of the record. It is a very bad sound unless you are doing rap. So a “good” DJ would start the record very low and hope the song fading would cover the cue burn or you talk “over” the cue burn.

That explains why we did it "back in the day." But why do they still do it? We know that one of listeners' main pet peeves is djs who talk all over the intros and outros of songs! I was just as guilty of doing that as anyone else, but once I learned to let the song "breathe," I just thought it sounded better. I am not against playing short liners over song intros, because it works for transition effect, but I am convinced that many djs (including myself at one time) simply talk too much!

 

[KarsonWithaK]

Who do the Regular Guys think they are, Scott Ferrall? "Shake it uuuuuuuuuuuuup!"
[/quote]

I always thought Scott was saying "check it ouuuuuuuuuuuuut!"

 

[ClarkKent]

Why is it okay to play a liner over a song intro, but not have the jock walk it up? Rogue is right. There's an art to the talkover. Every PD I've worked for has had the mantra of "keep it flowing," and talkovers are part of making that happen if they're done right. I think it sounds amateur to intro a song and then start it. If you want that effect, listen to some college station where nobody knows what they're doing.

I've also heard jocks (on a station I won't name) mention a song, start it, and say that it's "up next." That's a pet peeve of mine.