Music Fades Out

[calavan888]

This is a great topic. I think there are a quite a few reasons that this happens. Some have already been said. But here is my take. I have been doing radio since the early 90's. When congress allowed a single company to own a very large number of stations, all the competition that went on before, especially for listeners , was destroyed for the most part. Without competition a station or stations really don't have compete for listeners as long as the ad revenue comes in.If your the only one in town you will get all the dough. It is amazing that I can call my sister 2,000 miles away listening to the same format and the play list are almost identical.You Know 3P.M East then same at 3P.M. West. And most of the new music, not all, is very poor. Compared to the before say the mid 90's. And of course, as already mentioned, MP3 players, Ipods, and even computers are taking a lot of listeners. I understand that radio needs to generate revenue, and commercials is how they do it. But to be honest commercials are distracting. Most younger people are in the moment listeners, meaning that they will tune out, especially when there are commercials.Another factor is that most "new announces" have never been to school for radio. They have never learned that radio, as most of us older announcers know, is "theater of the mind." I hear more of the younger announcers talking at "listeners", not making a personal one on one connection with a listener. That is another reason why for the most part Talk Radio may seem like a great avenue.People like being talked to, not talked at. And as far as non coms. I currently volunteer at one. They for the most part are an alternative. But they have there own set of issues. Take mine for example, we play all different formats. But there again lies another problem, Too much variety I think is a listener killer. I am the only one that plays mainstream music. From day one, the calls during my slot increased. One day my station manager just happened to be around the station and noticed that the phone kept ringing. I told him they were calls about my show and they were requesting songs.I had him answer quite a few, so he would know that these were real people, not just the same caller calling over and over. He did not expect to hear so many request. We are for the most part a small town, surrounded by huge mountains.So most commercial stations have a hard time serving our community. So he finally said there have never been so many calls during any show since they started broadcasting. And because non coms, for you that don't know, don't have commercials but rather get our operating cost and such covered with underwriting and donations.Kind like PBS. Anyways, I told him that it's not what you want to hear but what the listeners want to hear.Several businesses have wanted to start underwriting the station, but not with his current format. They want a more mainstream format (i.e 70's - 90's) He just refuses to change the format because he and a few of his friends like it.All I seem to hear is that the cooperate media is the boogie man. That would have been a lot of revenue. But the thing that really gets me is that he keeps asking me the same question about getting younger listeners almost every couple of days, I guess he is expecting a different answer. I do however like talk radio.It can be quite entertaining. Can't we all just get along!!!

 

[davideduardo]

This is a great topic. I think there are a quite a few reasons that this happens. Some have already been said. But here is my take. I have been doing radio since the early 90's. When congress allowed a single company to own a very large number of stations, all the competition that went on before, especially for listeners , was destroyed for the most part.

Actually, in most cases there is more variety of formats now than ever.

I go back to the birthplace of the term "rock n' roll" in Cleveland. At any time in the late 50's to mid-60's we had 8 viable stations with 3 formats... 3 Top 40, 3 MOR and 2 r&b. Today, there are, not counting the marginal daytimers, about 20 different formats and variants. The same is true in most markets, as owners no longer have to be #1 to get good billing.

Without competition a station or stations really don't have compete for listeners as long as the ad revenue comes in.

In rated markets, which is where the competition is, there is plenty of competiton, and stations don't get revenue unless they get good levels of listenership. Radio is bought by the number of listeners (or results, which is the same thing).

If your the only one in town you will get all the dough.

Except for one, maybe two, quirks in the FCC market definition system, there is no market except small single station locations like Needles, CA, that have a single owner in the area. And even then, there are likely lots of out of market signals available.

It is amazing that I can call my sister 2,000 miles away listening to the same format and the play list are almost identical.You Know 3P.M East then same at 3P.M. West.

I'd be amazed if this were not true. Americans watch the same TV shows, consume the same national magazines, etc., etc. Of course an Adult Contemporary station in one market is going to be like one in a distant market... they program to the same lifestyle. Why would they want to be different? There is no reason at all

If you look at Top 40 local charts from the 50's, 95% of the songs were the same everyplace, give or take a few songs and a few weeks.

And most of the new music, not all, is very poor. Compared to the before say the mid 90's.

I think that is a matter of taste. There is plenty of good music ranging from alternative rock, pop, AC ballads, country, etc., etc. You just may not be as interested in current music as you once were... just like 95% of people as they move out of their 20's.

Another factor is that most "new announces" have never been to school for radio.

Most of the very good "old" ones never did, either. Talent comes in the box from the factory, and can't be added later.

They have never learned that radio, as most of us older announcers know, is "theater of the mind."

I'm gonna' upchuck if I hear that one more time.

What people want from the radio changes with each generation. Today's youth and 18-34 want something different than what worked for the prior generation. I don't think they want Kasey Kasem for today's world (with my appology to Kasey, who is a person I hold in high regard).

 

[calavan888]

DavidEduardo congrats on your 50 years in Radio! I hope I am still in it until then. You make some great points. Kasey Kasem was one of the greats. I like Charlie Tuna, Rick Dees too.

 

[johnbasalla]

For non-comms to be as successful as they can be, they need to have an identifiable format that is on most of the time. Build a morning show which is format focused, as in attractive to listeners of the stations main format. Specialty shows, which in the best situations should still be attractive to the stations format listners, could run later in the evenings (after 10 or 11pm). You might look at having no more then one specialty show per day to help the station avoid becoming a hard-to-follow, and ultimately an unlistenable mess to the majority of people who don't have the time, nor the inclination to bother remembering things like the day and times each singular program the may like is on. If you have some people who you need or want on-air, and their specialty program is way off the radar of the stations format, you could consider making all or part of Sunday a specialty show day for those types of shows.

 

[pocket-radio]

The "good ideas" are value added and moochandising and such, when taken from the agency's point of view. Relationships are based on giving good service, and that to an agency mostly means getting the rates in quickly at the right CPP.

David Eduardo Just look at what you wrote. Good ideas are value added, when taken from the agency's point of view. Value added? for my great idea! Relationships are based on giving good service, and agencies want quick rates.
When was the last time you actually called on a car dealer and sold anything?
In your world agencies are like gods. and nothing else matters.

In today's radio world, AE's who focus on agency business are a dying breed!

Transactional sales are in most cases more difficult. They require a lot of work to please the buyer without giving away the whole candy store.

A tapscam is nothing, plug in rates and added-value. If you don't have numbers, you drop rate just to get on the buy. If you sell clusters, you drop rates on the dog stations. Lets' call it what it is.
Coming up with copy, producing creative and being held responsible for moving the needle moving is far more challenging. Tapscam with rates and added value is nothing! Give me a break!

I was GM for a decade or so and GSM for about another decade in a top 15 market where I sold about 95% transactional business. Before that, I was in a market that was 100% transactional. In all cases, it took as much or more work, and a lot of personal visits, to make each sale.

Yup you pushed numbers for a long time.. You never had to create something. And you hid behind your numbers..

The two differences between local direct and agency business is that the agency rates average muuuuuuuuuch higher, and we don't have to pretend we know anything about writing copy or creating campaigns for 100 different business we know nothing about.

Like I said it easier to sell numbers.. than actually create something and move merchandise off the shelf!


That's so trite. You have to have numbers to get results for a client, whether you buy ratings or not. Agencies just use metrics based on audience deliver, because sales figures just don't work when you have a multi-station, multi-media buy.

It's all relative any station will work with or without numbers. You really believe your rubbish.

Good stations get better ratings and results than bad ones. I learned that when I programmed my first station at about age 17, so I'm surprised that if an inexperience teenager could figure that one out, why so many experienced adults can't. That was the year I figured out that it was a lot easier to sell if you were #1 than if you weren't, and you could get better rates, too.

Or some stations have better tricks of forced listening

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Radio is off by 25%, because the Agency business is off..

No, that is not so. Agencies are intermediaries. Agency business is off because everyone from banks to GM is off, and the economy is overall off by about 25%.

Yup things really suck! so what the point, let's just go home, why even bother.
I can never hit my budgets, if the agencies are off..


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Buy yet even in the top 25 markets, I bet you could find lots of busineses willing to buy a dam good idea..

Not really. The accounts with enough money to make it worthwhile are mostly with agencys, or they are Lasik centers and colon cleansing clinics. I have a hard time coming up with fun things to say about the colon.

David I can't believe what you said! All the good accounts are with agencies? You sound like an old radio guy who's really out of touch! Without a good agency list you can't make any money.
AE's like you were, are a dying breed. they're the last of generation. You either evolve or die.
You haven't sold anything for some time.


Yes calling on agencies is hard work. But educating direct clients and managing their expectations, writing copy, producing creative, collecting a check, and being held accountable for results, is exhausting work!

AE's focus on agencies because they have budgets! and half the work is already done! You just have to negotiate rates or meet their CPP. If you have numbers! it's easier. If your numbers suck, you drop rates..

clients with budgets seek agencies, because they believe an agency can do a better job.
In some cases they can, but mostly they're a bigger joke and write more bull.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

For non-comms to be as successful as they can be, they need to have an identifiable format that is on most of the time. Build a morning show which is format focused, as in attractive to listeners of the stations main format. Specialty shows, which in the best situations should still be attractive to the stations format listners, could run later in the evenings (after 10 or 11pm). You might look at having no more then one specialty show per day to help the station avoid becoming a hard-to-follow, and ultimately an unlistenable mess to the majority of people who don't have the time, nor the inclination to bother remembering things like the day and times each singular program the may like is on. If you have some people who you need or want on-air, and their specialty program is way off the radar of the stations format, you could consider making all or part of Sunday a specialty show day for those types of shows.

John.... can I call you John? I'm not intending to pick an argument with you, but you have taken some positions in your posts in this thread that I want to understand.... because so far, I don't. So help me out here.

The rest of the folks in this thread seem to be focused on radio in general, probably commercial radio almost exclusively. Your focus seems to be on NON-COMM radio, and I am curious to know WHY you would hold some of your positions... or maybe I should ask what you see as the purpose of NON-COMM radio.

Do you feel that ALL non-comm stations have basically the same mission? Looking at your personal profile I am guessing that you are a college student in the Cleveland area. I'm going to guess that you are involved in the campus station... and I am listening to the stream of your station as I write this.

Why does a non-comm need to have an identifiable format that would be somewhat consistent at almost all hours the station is on? I have the feeling that a lot of non-comms exist to provide a "vehicle" for various speciality programs that cannot get time on commercial stations the DO see the need to be consistent and focused on their announced format.

What is the problem with a non-comm airing a program at 10 A.M. in which people that are part of the labor movement would present the latest news on legislative status of issues of importance to working people in lines of work likely to be part of the labor movement?

What is the problem with a non-comm airing a program at 2 P.M. in which people interested in sports facilities provided by local governments in the listening area would be articulated so a listening parent could learn of organized sports available for their child?

What is the problem with a non-comm at 5:30 P.M. airing a program in which a local fishing guide discusses fishing conditions in the local lakes, and gives some publicity to the various competitive fishing events coming up in the area?

What is the problems with a non-comm at 9 P.M. having what amounts to short Podcast style commentaries by six or seven book enthusiasts so that I might consider reading a book that I did not know about?

Why would you consider Sunday the dumping ground for all the programs you feel are detrimental to the goals and needs of the station? Are the people who listen on Sunday some kind of underclass who have no right to expect "good" programming.

I'm trying to approach the topic of programming a non-comm much the way a professor of economics might challenge you during class as to whether you actually believe the economic theories you arrived with on campus that maybe you inherited from your family.

I thought one of the purposes of non-comm licensing was to provide a stage where topics and voices who are shut out of commercial radio can be heard. Do you disagree with that premise?

Help us learn from your viewpoint.

 

[johnbasalla]

Glad to respond. I am not a college student. I graduated many years ago. The focus on format is just acknowledging that smorgasbord stations (commercially they would be brokered) will not generally attract a large audience. At a College station, particularly one with a Broadcast/Media Major's program as part of the curriculum, it is important to learn within a reality based environment. So working with students to develop an audience-pleasing format is part of the pedagogy...part of of the educational mission. Now, that is not to say that the programming options that were presented in the previous post are wrong or bad. Generally, a station that features "X" as its format provides better service then one that has "X" on once a week, with other disjointed shows around it. It would be somewhat better if a station that doesn't have a format would at least, adopt a theme. So, if you're going to have a number of ethnic shows on for example, that could be the main service the station provides. I know of a number of college stations that have no format. They go from a 3 hour Hard Rock show to a Swing Jazz show, followed by who knows what. I know of one that, a few times a week, has/had non-English, ethnic programming on. Unfortunately, it's seemingly not integrated with anything. Then there's a lot of comically named shows that are "Free-form", often meaning that the DJ entertains him/herself. How can anybody but the staff follow all that?