Music Radio on AM What If?

[Scoobyfan1]

I'm not entirely sure if this is the right forum to post this in, but I guess I could take a shot at it.

Let's say that in some alternate universe or something like that ;D every major(or at least a great number) of the Classic Top 40 AM stations of the 60s, 70s and probably 80s in the US and Canada still had music formats.

Like for example: WLS, WABC, KHJ, KYA, etc; the question I have(and that I want to ask all of you) is that if these stations still had music formats, what music would they be playing? Oldies/Classic Hits? Country? Adult Contemporary or Hot Adult Contemporary? Or dare I say Top 40/CHR?

I think for a few of these stations that I mentioned they would probably have their current day FM oldies stations but on AM. KFRC, KJR and WLS are a few examples that I think could be succesful as AM music stations today but with their FM formats; I also think that most of these stations would probably keep their sports programming, and maybe have syndicated music programming that's on each station's FM signal nowadays(AT40, Gary Bryan, Dick Clark, Wolfman Jack, Dick Bartley, etc.).

This what if actually came to me some time back, and I think it would be an interesting discussion to bring up here. By the way, as for stations that changed dial positions(WHB in Kanas City switching from 710 to 810 for example), I think the station would keep their present dial position, although someone else can comment on that if they think of anything different.

I guess this could also qualify for stations that made a name for themselves in other music formats(KMPC for one); just wanted to bring this up and see what you all think.

 

[michael hagerty]

The alternate reality would have to include the absence of FM entirely. The audience simply won't listen (in sufficient numbers) to music on AM. Even supposedly AM-friendly formats like News/Talk and Sports are moving to FM. Research has found Hispanics have an even lower tolerance for AM than Anglos. There's probably a place for religion and niche ethnic programming (Asian, Farsi), but that's about it.

KHJ and KYA's signals are no longer adequate to cover their metros. WABC, WLS and KFRC would be okay on that level.

So, if we're playing on the assumption that FM never existed, then I'd say the big sticks like 'ABC, 'LS and KFRC would probably be CHR or AC, whichever billed the most. KFI (which overtook KHJ in the Top 40 ratings in 1979), would be the L.A. station.

Trouble is the interference/market coverage issue would mean only two truly strong signals in most cities...not enough for all the viable formats available.

 

[Scoobyfan1]

The alternate reality would have to include the absence of FM entirely. The audience simply won't listen (in sufficient numbers) to music on AM. Even supposedly AM-friendly formats like News/Talk and Sports are moving to FM. Research has found Hispanics have an even lower tolerance for AM than Anglos. There's probably a place for religion and niche ethnic programming (Asian, Farsi), but that's about it.

KHJ and KYA's signals are no longer adequate to cover their metros. WABC, WLS and KFRC would be okay on that level.

So, if we're playing on the assumption that FM never existed, then I'd say the big sticks like 'ABC, 'LS and KFRC would probably be CHR or AC, whichever billed the most. KFI (which overtook KHJ in the Top 40 ratings in 1979), would be the L.A. station.

Trouble is the interference/market coverage issue would mean only two truly strong signals in most cities...not enough for all the viable formats available.

All good points; basically the point of my post was if the more popular AM top 40 stations in each market were still playing music, which format would they have?

As for KFRC, WLS and WABC, I definitely think thet would be either of those formats. Although, what about oldies for some of the more popular AM top 40 stations?

Currently KJR, KOMA, WLS, KFRC and a few other am top 40 powerhouses have their calls on oldies formats. So I think some of the more popular AM stations would try an oldies/classic hits format, with a few syndicated programs on each station.

Like WLS and KJR for example, I could definitely see those stations as AM oldies stations. If done well, promoted properly and with the right jocks and music selection, I think those stations would be very popular oldies stations.

 

[michael hagerty]

The alternate reality would have to include the absence of FM entirely. The audience simply won't listen (in sufficient numbers) to music on AM. Even supposedly AM-friendly formats like News/Talk and Sports are moving to FM. Research has found Hispanics have an even lower tolerance for AM than Anglos. There's probably a place for religion and niche ethnic programming (Asian, Farsi), but that's about it.

KHJ and KYA's signals are no longer adequate to cover their metros. WABC, WLS and KFRC would be okay on that level.

So, if we're playing on the assumption that FM never existed, then I'd say the big sticks like 'ABC, 'LS and KFRC would probably be CHR or AC, whichever billed the most. KFI (which overtook KHJ in the Top 40 ratings in 1979), would be the L.A. station.

Trouble is the interference/market coverage issue would mean only two truly strong signals in most cities...not enough for all the viable formats available.

All good points; basically the point of my post was if the more popular AM top 40 stations in each market were still playing music, which format would they have?

As for KFRC, WLS and WABC, I definitely think thet would be either of those formats. Although, what about oldies for some of the more popular AM top 40 stations?

Currently KJR, KOMA, WLS, KFRC and a few other am top 40 powerhouses have their calls on oldies formats. So I think some of the more popular AM stations would try an oldies/classic hits format, with a few syndicated programs on each station.

Like WLS and KJR for example, I could definitely see those stations as AM oldies stations. If done well, promoted properly and with the right jocks and music selection, I think those stations would be very popular oldies stations.

I get the point, but the premise doesn't work unless FM doesn't exist. So, without dipping too far into fantasyland, let's try this...the market I'm most familiar with (Los Angeles), with the most recent numbers I have (Spring 1982). In the real world, it looked like this:

1. KABC (Talk): 6.7
2. KBIG-FM (Beautiful): 5.0
3. KMET-FM (AOR): 4.0
4. KIIS-FM (Top 40): 3.9
4. KLOS-FM (AOR): 3.9
6. KROQ-FM (Modern Rock): 3.7
6. KIQQ-FM (Top 40): 3.7
8. KFWB (News): 3.6
9. KHTZ-FM (A/C): 3.5
9. KJOI-FM (Beautiful): 3.5
9. KNX (News): 3.5
12.KRTH-FM (Oldies): 3.2
13.KPRZ (Standards): 2.6
14.KFI (Top 40): 2.5
14.KZLA-AM/FM (Country): 2.5
16.KMPC (Talk): 2.4
16.KOST-FM (Beautiful): 2.4
18.KNX-FM (Soft Rock): 2.2
19.KLAC (Country): 2.1
19.KRLA (Oldies): 2.1
21.KTNQ (Spanish): 1.9
21.KUTE-FM (R&B): 1.9
21.KGFJ (R&B): 1.9
24.KACE-FM (R&B): 1.5
24.XETRA (Top 40): 1.5
24.KDAY (R&B): 1.5
24.KHJ (Country): 1.5
28.KLVE-FM (Spanish): 1.3
28.KWKW (Spanish): 1.3
28.KWST-FM (Top 40): 1.3
28.KFAC-AM/FM (Classical): 1.3
32.KALI (Spanish): 1.2
32.KJLH-FM (R&B): 1.2
32.KKGO-FM (Jazz): 1.2
35.KNOB-FM (Beautiful): 1.1
36.KEZY-AM/FM (AOR): 0.8

But what if we took the FM shares and gave them to the last AM stations to be successful in those formats? Gotta bend the rules a bit...I'm giving KRTH's oldies format to KHJ (blood relatives) and KROQ's modern rock to KTNQ (because they edged closest to it as a Top 40) If FM didn't exist, here's what we'd have, 29 years ago:

1. 1540:KPOL (Beautiful): 12.0
2. 640: KFI (Top 40): 11.4
3. 570: KLAC (Country): 9.6
4. 790: KABC (Talk): 9.1
5. 1110:KRLA (AOR): 8.7
6. 710:KMPC (A/C): 5.7
7. 930: KHJ (Oldies): 5.3
8. 1580:KDAY (R&B): 4.1
9. 1230:KGFJ (R&B): 3.8
10. 1020: KTNQ (Modern Rock): 3.7
11. 980: KFWB (News): 3.6
12. 1070: KNX (News): 3.5
13. 1300:KWKW (Spanish) 3.0
14. 1430:KALI (Spanish): 2.9
15.1150: KPRZ (Standards): 2.6
16.KFAC (Classical): 1.3
17.KGIL (Jazz): 1.2

 

[Scoobyfan1]

The alternate reality would have to include the absence of FM entirely. The audience simply won't listen (in sufficient numbers) to music on AM. Even supposedly AM-friendly formats like News/Talk and Sports are moving to FM. Research has found Hispanics have an even lower tolerance for AM than Anglos. There's probably a place for religion and niche ethnic programming (Asian, Farsi), but that's about it.

KHJ and KYA's signals are no longer adequate to cover their metros. WABC, WLS and KFRC would be okay on that level.

So, if we're playing on the assumption that FM never existed, then I'd say the big sticks like 'ABC, 'LS and KFRC would probably be CHR or AC, whichever billed the most. KFI (which overtook KHJ in the Top 40 ratings in 1979), would be the L.A. station.

Trouble is the interference/market coverage issue would mean only two truly strong signals in most cities...not enough for all the viable formats available.

All good points; basically the point of my post was if the more popular AM top 40 stations in each market were still playing music, which format would they have?

As for KFRC, WLS and WABC, I definitely think thet would be either of those formats. Although, what about oldies for some of the more popular AM top 40 stations?

Currently KJR, KOMA, WLS, KFRC and a few other am top 40 powerhouses have their calls on oldies formats. So I think some of the more popular AM stations would try an oldies/classic hits format, with a few syndicated programs on each station.

Like WLS and KJR for example, I could definitely see those stations as AM oldies stations. If done well, promoted properly and with the right jocks and music selection, I think those stations would be very popular oldies stations.

I get the point, but the premise doesn't work unless FM doesn't exist. So, without dipping too far into fantasyland, let's try this...the market I'm most familiar with (Los Angeles), with the most recent numbers I have (Spring 1982). In the real world, it looked like this:

1. KABC (Talk): 6.7
2. KBIG-FM (Beautiful): 5.0
3. KMET-FM (AOR): 4.0
4. KIIS-FM (Top 40): 3.9
4. KLOS-FM (AOR): 3.9
6. KROQ-FM (Modern Rock): 3.7
6. KIQQ-FM (Top 40): 3.7
8. KFWB (News): 3.6
9. KHTZ-FM (A/C): 3.5
9. KJOI-FM (Beautiful): 3.5
9. KNX (News): 3.5
12.KRTH-FM (Oldies): 3.2
13.KPRZ (Standards): 2.6
14.KFI (Top 40): 2.5
14.KZLA-AM/FM (Country): 2.5
16.KMPC (Talk): 2.4
16.KOST-FM (Beautiful): 2.4
18.KNX-FM (Soft Rock): 2.2
19.KLAC (Country): 2.1
19.KRLA (Oldies): 2.1
21.KTNQ (Spanish): 1.9
21.KUTE-FM (R&B): 1.9
21.KGFJ (R&B): 1.9
24.KACE-FM (R&B): 1.5
24.XETRA (Top 40): 1.5
24.KDAY (R&B): 1.5
24.KHJ (Country): 1.5
28.KLVE-FM (Spanish): 1.3
28.KWKW (Spanish): 1.3
28.KWST-FM (Top 40): 1.3
28.KFAC-AM/FM (Classical): 1.3
32.KALI (Spanish): 1.2
32.KJLH-FM (R&B): 1.2
32.KKGO-FM (Jazz): 1.2
35.KNOB-FM (Beautiful): 1.1
36.KEZY-AM/FM (AOR): 0.8

But what if we took the FM shares and gave them to the last AM stations to be successful in those formats? Gotta bend the rules a bit...I'm giving KRTH's oldies format to KHJ (blood relatives) and KROQ's modern rock to KTNQ (because they edged closest to it as a Top 40) If FM didn't exist, here's what we'd have, 29 years ago:

1. 1540:KPOL (Beautiful): 12.0
2. 640: KFI (Top 40): 11.4
3. 570: KLAC (Country): 9.6
4. 790: KABC (Talk): 9.1
5. 1110:KRLA (AOR): 8.7
6. 710:KMPC (A/C): 5.7
7. 930: KHJ (Oldies): 5.3
8. 1580:KDAY (R&B): 4.1
9. 1230:KGFJ (R&B): 3.8
10. 1020: KTNQ (Modern Rock): 3.7
11. 980: KFWB (News): 3.6
12. 1070: KNX (News): 3.5
13. 1300:KWKW (Spanish) 3.0
14. 1430:KALI (Spanish): 2.9
15.1150: KPRZ (Standards): 2.6
16.KFAC (Classical): 1.3
17.KGIL (Jazz): 1.2

Sounds good to me; and everything you posted definitely makes sense.

 

[michael hagerty]

Except that I got rushed by something else I needed to do and left off the frequencies for KGIL and KFAC (1260 and 1330, respectively).

But that's 29 years ago. A lot of those stations' signals became inadequate to cover the growing metro in the meantime. R&B would need stronger signals than KGFJ and KDAY. the explosion of Latinos would require more than KALI and KWKW. The Anglo population of L.A. dropping to 25% makes Country a niche format. KFWB lost the news race to KNX's superior signal. And formats like Beautiful and Standards are dead. And new formats have emerged (though fewer would have without FM:

So here's what an AM-only L.A. might look like today;

570: KLAC (the most mass-appeal Spanish format)

640: KFI (CHR)

690: XETRA (the second most mass-appeal Spanish)

710: KMPC (A/C)

740: KBRT (Religion)

790: KABC (Talk)

830: KLAA (Sports)

870: KIEV (Talk)

930: KHJ (Oldies)

980: KFWB (Contemporary R&B)

1020: KTNQ (Alternative)

1070: KNX (News)

1110: KRLA (Classic Rock)

1150: KIIS (Country)

1190: KEZY (Active Rock)

1230: KGFJ (R&B Oldies)

1260: KGIL (Jazz)

1300: KWKW (niche Spanish)

1330: KFAC (Classical)

1430: KALi (niche Spanish)

1480: KWIZ (Ethnic)

1540: KPOL (Smooth Jazz)

1580: KDAY (Asian)

 

[michael hagerty]

I see some flaws in what I wrote already...not enough religion, for starters. More likely KGIL smooth jazz and KPOL religion.

 

[Scoobyfan1]

I see some flaws in what I wrote already...not enough religion, for starters. More likely KGIL smooth jazz and KPOL religion.

No problem, I was just in interested in people's thoughts about this. And you did post your thoughts on this, so thank you

 

[jhguthlac]

Back in the later 90's, Mega bought a fistfull of AM stations, delighted that they could buy so many AM stations so cheaply. The stations were cheap because they were useless. The Hispanic population is not going to listen to AM.

The powerhouse stations of our youth, like WABC, do not come in as well as they used to back in the 60's. Line noise, pc's, have all made AM difficult to listen to. On the main street of my city, you cannot listen to AM at all.

Music formats? You can't even get people to listen to talk on AM. Sports radio is moving to FM. News is moving to FM.Soon, only a handful of AM's will still be viable in the major markets. Rush saved AM radio, but even that is coming to an end. The AM stations are going to replace music on FM, as the new generation tunes out radio entirely.

 

[LKellerIII]

I think you could assume that in this fantasy world, most old Top 40 stations would have tranistioned to Oldies/Classic Hits.

Keep in mind that many of those original Top 40 stations became Oldies stations before AM became passe for music. In San Francisco, 1260/KYA went directly from Top 40 to Oldies in the 80s, and also added Oldies to their FM frequency. Later, 1260 was sold, and became the repeater for Lite Rock KOIT.

610/KFRC went to a Standards music format right after Top 40, but the call letters came back a few years later for Oldies on the new owners' FM frequency, and 610 AM was added back as a repeater.

In Los Angeles, KRLA 1110 was an Oldies station for years - until the late 90s, IIRC. Since then, the 1110 frequency has become Radio Disney, and the "KRLA" calls were snatched up by a Talk station. But I believe 1110 transitioned directly from Top 40 to the Oldies format in the late 70s or early 80s, as well.

 

[michael hagerty]

Actually, Llew, KRLA transitioned in and out of oldies several times over the years. They went from Top 40 to very nearly AOR in 1972, to Adult Contemporary in 1973, to Oldies in 1974, back to Top 40 in 1976, back to Oldies in 1977, back to Top 40 in 1978 and finally to Oldies once and for all in 1981. They hung in from then until 1998.

 

[Les Stock]

The Hispanic population is not going to listen to AM.

The Tulsa area has five Spanish-language stations on the AM band. Four of them have debuted within the last twelve months.

 

[michael hagerty]

The Hispanic population is not going to listen to AM.

The Tulsa area has five Spanish-language stations on the AM band. Four of them have debuted within the last twelve months.

That's probably better phrased "The Hispanic population is not going to listen to AM if there's an FM alternative." Clearly, they won't simply forgo listening to radio altogether. What's Spanish-language FM look like in Tulsa?

 

[Les Stock]

What's Spanish-language FM look like in Tulsa?

Clear Channel's La Preciosa is the only Spanish-language FM in the market.

 

[michael hagerty]

What's Spanish-language FM look like in Tulsa?

Clear Channel's La Preciosa is the only Spanish-language FM in the market.

That's why you have four Spanish-language AMs. If more FMs flip, the AMs won't survive.

 

[borderblaster]

For what it may or may not be worth: CKLW, probably oldies taking the place of WOMC (the group does play oldies on sister CKWW). If it was still the CHR giant, maybe a modrnequivalent of what they were going to do on FM in the 80s which the CRTC ultimately didn't approve, which was in turn a return to the late 60s formula as what would be considered a Rhythmic CHR today..though will plenty of Canadian Content. WLS might have the oldies format it has on it's FM. They gradually faded the music out in favor of talk in the mid 80s before offically becoming "Talkradio 890" in August of 1989 (music was a hodge podge right before then). WCFL..hard saying. Since they were the Loop AM maybe they'd be carrying The Loop's format. Maybe WABC or WNBC would still be some variant of top 40

 

[MarioMania]

Just re-invent AM again

Start making AM Stereo receviers

 

[LKellerIII]

Just re-invent AM again

Start making AM Stereo receviers

It won't work if the demand is not there. I'm one of the only people I know to buy an HD radio. I bought if for one of my cars a couple of years ago when the existing AM/FM/CD stopped working. It was only $20 more than a similar unit without HD, so it was worth it. But despite all the advertising for HD from terrestrial radio, demand is low. I doubt I would have bought the HD unit if my existing car stereo hadn't gone down.

I'd speculate that the problem is that we have so many high-tech music entertainment choices these days, it's hard to get people interested in terrestrial radio receivers when they'd rather shell out for MP3 players or satellite radio.

I would think it would be an even harder uphill battle to get consumers to shell out money for AM Stereo receivers.

 

[borderblaster]

Stereo isn't going to cure dimmer switches, computers, and plasma screens from being on your AM dial.

 

[MarioMania]

or Laptops, TV's, Lights, Microwaves and on and on...