My KJR-FM Rant... Why Can't They Get It Right?

[DrJerry]

OK, I'm in... long-time lurker, first time poster... and life-long radio enthusiast. I love local radio... well, at least when it's done right. I also love oldies and have been frustrated over and over by KJR-FM. My frustration only increases when I head to places like the northeast where, it seems, they really get how to program this format in markets big and small. Why can't we do it here?

I've seen at least one reference on here to "east coast" vs "west coast" oldies programming. Based on what I've heard, an "east coast" format means *seriously* good variety (and yes, you can do this without even scratching the surface of obscurity), energetic jocks who are engaged in the music and talk about the songs and artists they're playing... AND who are also engaged with listeners (take calls, requests). Throw in a nice jingle package, too. It's good, entertaining radio and it's missing in Seattle. Even small-ish market stations like WDRC get this right (with good ratings). And there are many others. Listened to a lot of WCBS-FM in the car. Can't expect KJR-FM to match their talent, but no reason why it can't match their music. My wife, who is not generally an oldies listener, grabbed the volume knob more than once as she heard songs she had not heard on the radio for years. And to better hear what the jocks were saying about them. WDRC does this just about as well. If they can do it in Hartford (market size rank 50th), why not here??

On KJR-FM, it's mainly zombie jocks who plug the Bob Rivers show and then tell us that Supertramp and Chicago are coming up next. And with all due respect to Rivers (I don't personally care for his show, but I know he's more than proven himself at least in this market), I don't think his show fits the station. Spend the money on some entertaining live talent (morning through evening) and I think you do just as well overall. And PLEASE... you have decades of music to choose from, fix the VARIETY.

And my final gripe... why doesn't Clear Channel leverage the KJR-FM legacy call letters? Yes, I know... "nowadays calls don't matter"... but I'd argue that with an oldies format, these calls are worth at least a little to people who grew up here. It's brand equity (which takes years to develop). It's also nostalgic, which is what the format is all about. Why Clear Channel is not taking advantage of this is a serious head-scratcher if you ask me.

Every now and then I tune into KJR just to see if it's better. It's not. Meanwhile, it's my iPod in the car and Music Choice at home when I'm in the mood for oldies. But I'd MUCH rather be listening to some good local radio, commercials and all. (And yes, I do listen to KMCQ sometimes... their variety is good... too good sometimes ;D ...but it's boring in all other ways and not a "real" radio station).

OK, my rant is over now; I feel so much better Am I preaching to the choir? I think KJR-FM could be SO GOOD (and successful). Can someone tell me WHY KJR-FM can't figure that out?

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

Definitely preaching to choir. Common rant around here is when they get CLOSE to getting it right, someone tweaks the station in a whole new direction. Never sure if that is in-market management influence or national ... with Clear Channel you can never be sure where the ignorance is coming from.

Oldies is not that hard to do. Pick good music, throw in some spice, and use elements and talent that add energy to the mix. For some reason consultants around here decided all those elements are tune-outs. That's ironic for me because oldies format done poorly IS a tune-out.

Thank you for speaking up!

(and stand by for the poo-poo naysayers who will be along shortly to tell us we are simply nostalgic for the "old days", etc. Though with that "you don't get it" claim, it makes it hard to explain why PPM numbers for KRTH, WCBS and many others are so strong).

 

[Cumeanary]

It's also nostalgic, which is what the format is all about.

Well you see, that's where you've gone off track. You want nostalgia? Listen to the "forties on 4" on Sirius/XM.

Oldies radio, or any good radio for that matter, isn't about taking you back. It's about the here and now. Regardless of format, a station needs to be relevant and relateable all the while being entertaining.

The "problem" with KJR, if you're looking for one, is presentation, not music variety. With the recent addition of worthy talent, I say give them time. You will see a re-positioning, of sorts, over the next few months I suspect.

BTW, there is a difference between "olides" east coast and west coast. I offer beach music as an example. Here you'd be talking about the Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, The Ventures - east coast, in particular the Carolina's, it's the Drifters, Four Tops and James and Bobby Purify.

 

[AQH]

The Seattle Radio-Info Board Answer Widget
Because all of the problem in Seattle radio have been solved over and over again by the experts on this board with irrefutable and proven methods, I thought it would be easy to provide an easy way for responses.

The way for KJR-FM to get it right is (check all that apply):
[ ] Hire Robin and Maynard
[ ] Make it sound exactly like what they do on Satellite Radio
[ ] No less than a 20,000 song active library, a one month rotation is too tight
[ ] Make it sound exactly like what they do on Australian and Canadian radio
[ ] Hire Pat Cashman
[ ] Put music back on the AM band
[ ] Do not play a song that any other radio station has played, that's bad
[ ] Hire Ricker
[ ] Rhythmic AC Music
[ ] Bring back Smooth Jazz
[ ] Hire Pat O'Day
[ ] Play the eighth cut on Jim Croce's last album
[ ] Play the ninth cut on Jim Croce's last album

Did I miss anything?

 

[Dick Skinner]

It's also nostalgic, which is what the format is all about.

Well you see, that's where you've gone off track. You want nostalgia? Listen to the "forties on 4" on Sirius/XM.

Oldies radio, or any good radio for that matter, isn't about taking you back. It's about the here and now. Regardless of format, a station needs to be relevant and relateable all the while being entertaining.

The "problem" with KJR, if you're looking for one, is presentation, not music variety. With the recent addition of worthy talent, I say give them time. You will see a re-positioning, of sorts, over the next few months I suspect.

BTW, there is a difference between "olides" east coast and west coast. I offer beach music as an example. Here you'd be talking about the Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, The Ventures - east coast, in particular the Carolina's, it's the Drifters, Four Tops and James and Bobby Purify.

Oldies radio isn't about nostalgia? I've read some asinine assertions on this board, but...oh, never mind.

 

[searadiofreak]

Interesting thread. IMO, west coast radio, (insert oldies or AC), is different than east coast. But let's expand that out a bit. Radio west of the Mississippi is different than east of the Mississippi, and I'm not just referring to the "W" and "K" calls, which for the most part are meaningless these days anyway.

For the past thirty or forty years, many radio fans who have traveled to both sides of the country have noticed a difference. It is hard to put into words, (frankly airchecks do a better job of describing), but in general, radio has had, and even continues to, have a bigger than life sound in the east. Not sure why, but a simplistic answer may be that western stations just have an attitude of being more "laidback". This was certainly evident when comparing L.A. to N.Y. But other cities within the regions seemed to adapt to this general philosophy.

These elements include in no particular order: Pride in the city of license, thus promoting huge, staged top of the hour ID's that made eastern cities seem HUGE. Reverb that made small market stations sound like the big cities who used this technique frequently. DJ's who competed with each other more intensely, because they could be heard in other markets due to the density, and the idea they could be heard and possibly move up to bigger markets. And finally, a feeling of "bigness" prevails, whereas a western station was more personal and attuned to the individual.

Radio sounds reflect the geographic area, and ultimately the listener in his or her local area. Frankly, that is the beauty of radio, and these differences are a mark of the industry. I hope we don't lose that, but it may be too late.

 

[TVradioguru]

Oldies is not that hard to do. Pick good music, throw in some spice,

Really! Picking "good music" is not hard? So with decades of top 20 or 40 music to choose, what do you classify as "good"? Good, according to you as someone who apparently speaks for society? Good according to your close friends?

And the term "spice" is a new one used here. Are we making a stew, or programming a radio station? What do you classify as "spice"? Sexual innuendo? Talent reading from a joke service? Talking up to the vocal?

The words "easy" and picking "good music" don't go together if you've ever tried to program a radio station. "Spice" is an armchair programmer term.

 

[AQH]

Oldies radio isn't about nostalgia?

For a few people it might be, but for the vast majority of the audience it is not.

 

[Wonderfulwino]

One thing that KZOK has done mostly right, is that when they knew that the classic rock format was working and generating $$$, they didnt **** with it too much. Cut out the pop and bubblegum (most of it anyway), give the jocks just a bit of wiggleroom on the playlist, and keep that playlist current. By current, meaning, in the 80's as an example, classic rock meant stuff from the mid 60's forward into the early 70's... In 2000, that can be music that was classic from the 70's 80's..A classic rocker playing mid 60's drug rock now is not going to keep the audience. It's good for those one hour sunday shows with crowsky but thats about it. There's your "nostagia" format. KJR couldl have that CR audience but only after they put away the Archies and Monkees 45's..Otherwise it will continue to be "The Little engine that coulda but sort ofdidnt"..Steve is a good addition to any station but not in this muted form we hear at the moment..

 

[DrJerry]

Good comments. I like the observations about east coast vs. west coast, and think there's definitely some truth there. Also agree that KZOK is well done, overall. I hear remnants of the KXRX sound, which was a favorite of mine back in the day.

As to the question of picking "good" music... well, there's no doubt that programming a great playlist is a mix of art and science. But let's be objective and put the "art" part of the equation aside for the moment. If you go back and look at the Billboard charts, you'll find many top-20, top-10, and even number-1 singles (let alone top-40) that are as foreign to KJR-FM as SCUBA is to a cat. Granted, not all top-40 (or even number 1) records are created equal, and some deserve more attention than others (getting into the art part)... but c'mon... how can you claim to play the "greatest hits" when you're completely ignoring such a large number of them?

 

[bobdavcav]

As for spice, that's one of the reasons I don't listen to Orlando's WMGF. When I was listening to them about 6 months ago, I heard 4 songs before I even heard the an ID for the station. Portland's k103 probably wouldn't be worth listening to if it weren't for the jingles.

 

[TVradioguru]

how can you claim to play the "greatest hits" when you're completely ignoring such a large number of them?

Could it be that those songs don't do well in research? The Night Chicago Died comes to mind.

A hit that stayed on the top of the charts for a long time is a winner with listeners. Period, end of story. Those songs had staying power, because they were.. say it together now...hits)

 

[Wonderfulwino]

If economic times were a bit better, you would see more risk-taking with music formats. i've sort of sensed that channel 95 is ever-so-gently tweaking with it's musical direction. You can hear it. Slaton may be just helping clear the path somewhat. I think the independent researchers are too busy competing with each other rather than providing good data to the radio groups. Long ago, it was just the Billboard hot 100, you called it good every other week and you really couldnt go too wrong. Maybe we should give "All request" radio another shot. 21st century style. Forget the phones, just use all the other technology at hand.. Hey..just sayin'...!

 

[TVradioguru]

Obviously you have never worked at, let alone programmed a radio station. Even way back in the 70's, major market stations tracked, but never used requests as anything more than 1-2% in the music selection process, if that. Even way back, statistics show that roughly <1% of the total audience ever bothered to call a radio station, let alone make a request. Today those who visit a radio station website represent less than .025% of the listening audience.

Do you want that small of a percentage programming your radio station? Needless to say, it would be a disaster.

I hate to burst your bubble further, but for years stations recorded requests until just before the song appeared on the playlist to make it sound like they played requests.

Sure there will be the person who will comment that he used to take requests at some insignificant station in Salt Lake, back in the 80's, but I guarantee it didn't happen in markets 15 or less, including Seattle

 

[Wonderfulwino]

Actually I have and lighten up. It was meant to be a funny. Stop overthinking

 

[scott salvatori]

I hate to burst your bubble further, but for years stations recorded requests until just before the song appeared on the playlist to make it sound like they played requests.

now theres something to be boast about, huh ??

Sure there will be the person who will comment that he used to take requests at some insignificant station in Salt Lake, back in the 80's, but I guarantee it didn't happen in markets 15 or less, including Seattle

one of the great joys of listener feedback in them 80's and 90's was befriending a live air personality(the few who were good!), and cajoling him/her to maybe slip in something different than the computerized playist dictated. yep, mostly always album tracks. done it many dozens of times. and im not talking the fringe/non commercial left side of the FM dial.

but no, this wasnt part of a standard operating procedure of the stations...

 

[bossbill]

Obviously you have never worked at, let alone programmed a radio station. Even way back in the 70's, major market stations tracked, but never used requests as anything more than 1-2% in the music selection process, if that. Even way back, statistics show that roughly <1% of the total audience ever bothered to call a radio station, let alone make a request. Today those who visit a radio station website represent less than .025% of the listening audience.

Do you want that small of a percentage programming your radio station? Needless to say, it would be a disaster.

I hate to burst your bubble further, but for years stations recorded requests until just before the song appeared on the playlist to make it sound like they played requests.

Sure there will be the person who will comment that he used to take requests at some insignificant station in Salt Lake, back in the 80's, but I guarantee it didn't happen in markets 15 or less, including Seattle

 

[bossbill]

Obviously you have never worked at, let alone programmed a radio station. Even way back in the 70's, major market stations tracked, but never used requests as anything more than 1-2% in the music selection process, if that. Even way back, statistics show that roughly <1% of the total audience ever bothered to call a radio station, let alone make a request. Today those who visit a radio station website represent less than .025% of the listening audience.

Do you want that small of a percentage programming your radio station? Needless to say, it would be a disaster.

I hate to burst your bubble further, but for years stations recorded requests until just before the song appeared on the playlist to make it sound like they played requests.

Sure there will be the person who will comment that he used to take requests at some insignificant station in Salt Lake, back in the 80's, but I guarantee it didn't happen in markets 15 or less, including Seattle

TAKE TWO

Ahhh... absolutes.

I have actually seen real live Seattle disk jockeys pick up the phone, take a request, and play it. Not a lot, but enough to void your guarantee.

On the subject of basing music playlists on requests of 1% of the listeners, of course you wouldn't, but on the other hand, we do base entire formats on the opinions of panels of far less than 1% of the listeners. And when we play music based on sales, that's also less than 1% (unless of course an artist has a big hit and sells 310,000,000 copies).

 

[dunno]

Bill,

I believe you've seen that happen, but I have to come down of the side of Guru on this one. Request are banked in vox pro and can be played when that song comes up in rotation. At least at most major stations.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

I believe you've seen that happen, but I have to come down of the side of Guru on this one. Request are banked in vox pro and can be played when that song comes up in rotation. At least at most major stations.

It's the norm .. but not always. I would never air a request call unless it was legitimate off-the-chart call and really WAS legit. Who cares if someone is requesting something already rotating .. but the off-the-wall stuff usually had a story that was fun. It also added some spice to .... oh HELL. Now I used the spice word and will solicit another "stew" rant from the goo-poo.