Do you think they will kill off analog radio in 5-10 years like they will on analog TV? If so I may not be loyal to radio any more. I can get reception great on analog. I use to support big on HDradio untill I figured out how hard it is to DX it. If they kill out analog, I'll be going to another source like maybe satellite radio. I think that would be a big down for radio if they kill analog. Anyway just my thoughts.
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My question again is...
- Thread starter jras20
- Start date
jras20 said:
Be assured, with over 80+ possible years of analog radios out there, radio's analog sunset is at least 20 years in the future (if ever). With the lukewarm response and acceptance of HD radio at the present time, you need not worry about being able to stay loyal to the radio stations you currently enjoy in the analog universe. The technology of HD radio is still very much in its' infancy. Until they make the average HD radio truly portable, a-la a boom box with a single whip antenna and a coverage area that really means something, it's still a work in progress (albeit slow). And face it, the programming on HD2 and 3 is nothing to write home about, except for a few widely scattered cases (too few and far between). IMHO.
I wouldn't be too sure of just how long analog will stay around. After all, analog television is over 60 years old and with one ruling the FCC will start shutting down analog TV transmission from over the air transmitters early next year. I doubt in 20 years there will be any analog commercial broadcasting taking place. How long did it take to convert from analog discs to CD? Not all that long. Of course you could always buy a record here and there but they were novelties. Might I suggest that it isn't wise to overstate your argument. History doesn't back you up.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
RF Analog tv is being turned off because there's a financial incentive to do so...spectrum to sell. No such incentive exists for terrestrial radio. I don't believe analog radio will be turned off within my lifetime. I'm 49. I believe that when I'm "graveyard dead", "drinkin' with Sinatra", "Sleepin' with the fishes" (choose your own), analog FM and AM will still be around...if for no other reason than that it's needed as a fallback for when digital fails. So is analog tv, by the way...digital's coverage isn't as great. But we're back to that sellable spectrum!
R.F. Burns said:
Duly noted and logged. However, HD radio is hardly a portable medium. Most people listen to either AM or FM radio with portables whether in the car or whatever. Based upon the real world performance (lousy coverage) of these HD radios already in the marketplace, the technology is just simply "not there yet", at the present time. Sure, somebody might scrounge a couple hundred bucks for the "oh wow!" factor. Include me as one of them. I've had my HD radio (a BA Recepter) for nearly 2 years. I find nothing compelling program-wise on HD radio to warrant the extra added expense of buying it. The programming is nothing to write home about. The quality of the audio is nothing big. The overwhelming need of external antennas just to get a decent local signal (in my case a Stereo-Probe 9) will limit the interest for the average consumer, who just want something "out-of-the-box" to work. I've got no doubt that HD radio will show some strength in future years. But for now, I don't see an overwhelming need to replace a system of radio that technically works quite well to a system that is currently leaving a lot to be desired in performance. And on another plain: the cost of retrofitting the smaller stations of the world (the LPFM's and college stations) for Ibiquity's IBOC is exorbitant to say the least. They deserve just the same opportunity of embracing the new technology as anyone else. No doubt, the 10 watters out there will have to wait until the full-digital mode happens in order to cover their already limited coverage areas. I don't see full-digital operation for some time.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
Programming, dear friend, varies tremendously from market to market. In your market, nothing may warrant the price. In mine, it certainly does. CLASSICAL MUSIC is not available in the Triad market (Winston Salem/Greensboro/High Point) without HD! Neither are country oldies, Urban Oldies (MUSIC...not rap!), etc.
There's a great article in the latest Radio World about how Vermont Public Radio is having success promoting HD, and using it to offer programming that otherwise just wouldn't be there.
Then, I'm largely a public radio listener. It seems that they're WAY ahead of the pack in terms of actually offering something compelling TO LISTEN TO!
As for HD "not being a portable medium", the portables are coming later this year, and will be incorporated in the kinds of devices people carry (mp3 players, battery-operated radios, cell phones, etc.)
There's a great article in the latest Radio World about how Vermont Public Radio is having success promoting HD, and using it to offer programming that otherwise just wouldn't be there.
Then, I'm largely a public radio listener. It seems that they're WAY ahead of the pack in terms of actually offering something compelling TO LISTEN TO!
As for HD "not being a portable medium", the portables are coming later this year, and will be incorporated in the kinds of devices people carry (mp3 players, battery-operated radios, cell phones, etc.)
I don't agree Mike, 20 years is a long time. Look at the world of 1987 and compare it with the world of 2007 and time & technology only moves faster as time goes by.Mike Walker said:
You can still purchase some music in vinyl format, what does that mean? In a little over a year NTSC television wil become a thing of the past as far as over the air broadcasting is concerned.Sure some people for varying reasons have dial up. Heck, some don't have a computer let alone the internet. In todays world, broadband is considered standard. XP is built around having a broadband connection, with the weekly packet sent out to sync your computer clock and of course updates which are just not practicle with dial up. Most new computers don't include a floppy drive any longer. CD-Roms will disappear as DVD with its much greater storage capacity becomes the norm. 10 years from now the world with be a entirely different place at the rate things are currently going.
I disagree. It's easy to turn off analog TV when most TV viewing takes places over cable or satellite. Over the air TV viewing is below 15% IIRC. Radio is a different animal. Bridge projects 100,000,000 HD radio users by 2020 compared to 250,000,000 analog radio users.
I think there will be a better method of digital delivery. They have been outlined here:
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,90101.msg690839.html#msg690839
and here:
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,90101.msg685125.html#msg685125
I think there will be a better method of digital delivery. They have been outlined here:
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,90101.msg690839.html#msg690839
and here:
http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,90101.msg685125.html#msg685125
Broadcast method aside, lets look at the meadowlands. Engineers have found ways to build on wamps and so the land which was overly abundant in New jersey for 500 plus foot towers semed limitless. WEPN just finished building a new plant only to be told that they will have to move soon. Those 3 self supporting towers so long loctaed next to the Jersey turnpike wll be coming down. I don't know where they will move but space is today at a premium. There was talk of WLIB losing their tower site and that would most likely take down WSNR as well. Where are all of these stations going to relocate to. Do you think in 20 years the medowlands will be anything like it is today?
K
kyscott
Guest
Mike Walker said:
Unless the beach you are laying out on happens to be under the broadcasting tower or in the 80bB contour, HD radio is NOT a portable medium. I live 15 miles from the tower of three stations broadcasting HD. Without an external, rooftop, antenna, I cannot decode the HD signal. The IBOC scheme has severe reception deficiencies that need to be addressed before it becomes a "portable" medium.
M
Mike Walker
Guest
RF, name a broadcast technology, or mode of transmission, that's ever gone away. NO, analog TV hasn't yet. Some doubt it will in 2009, regardless of the timetable. Will the Democratic congress really want to be held responsible for "turning off Grandma's TV"? Because it's elderly people, people on fixed incomes, those who can't afford, or can't get cable or satellite, who will be impacted most. And let's not forget folks like me, who despite the recent purchase of a 600 dollar antenna/rotor/preamp, CANNOT get a digital signal on Fox over the air (analog reception of Fox 18 in Charlotte, and Fox 8 in High Point are pristine). In fact I can get all networks (admittedly with a snowy picture) with rabbit ears.
I repeat, what broadcast technology, or mode of operation, has EVER gone away? By the way, what bit of recording or audio technology has gone away? Yes, I know vinyl is a minority format. But are you aware that sales of lps have INCREASED each year of the last decade, or that there are TONS of NEW turntables, cartridges, and phono preamps being introduced? You might want to visit an audio store, or seek some statistics before declaring the lp dead. And a HUGE percentage of the music we hear on the radio TO THIS DAY is recorded, and mixed on analog open-reel tape. You assert that so much can change in 20 years. I counter that TRENDS can change and develop over that period of time. Certainly one such trend today is the ascendency of downloaded music, vs. the descendency of the CD...but that doesn't mean either will "go away" in my lifetime, or yours. The BILLIONS of analog lps, and open reel tapes insure that there will be SOME market for devices to play these formats for many decades. Not only that, are you aware that many major record labels have RESUMED releasing on lp?
So please...name a broadcast, or audio technology, or mode, that's "gone away" (alright, the wax cylinder may well be on it's last leg!
I repeat, what broadcast technology, or mode of operation, has EVER gone away? By the way, what bit of recording or audio technology has gone away? Yes, I know vinyl is a minority format. But are you aware that sales of lps have INCREASED each year of the last decade, or that there are TONS of NEW turntables, cartridges, and phono preamps being introduced? You might want to visit an audio store, or seek some statistics before declaring the lp dead. And a HUGE percentage of the music we hear on the radio TO THIS DAY is recorded, and mixed on analog open-reel tape. You assert that so much can change in 20 years. I counter that TRENDS can change and develop over that period of time. Certainly one such trend today is the ascendency of downloaded music, vs. the descendency of the CD...but that doesn't mean either will "go away" in my lifetime, or yours. The BILLIONS of analog lps, and open reel tapes insure that there will be SOME market for devices to play these formats for many decades. Not only that, are you aware that many major record labels have RESUMED releasing on lp?
So please...name a broadcast, or audio technology, or mode, that's "gone away" (alright, the wax cylinder may well be on it's last leg!
Mike Walker said:
An AM radio incorporated in a device like a cell phone or mp3 player, what could possibly go wrong? The most sensitive AM receivers are useless next to those very devices. So what makes you think combining those devices would improve the situation?. We've been down this road many times. Remember those monster console AM/FM/TV combos from the old days? With the TV in use the FM would work, the AM section not so much. It reminds me of a story regarding AMAX. This took place at an NAB convention in New Orleans. An engineer visited a hospitality room promoting this new and improved AM technology. When he walked in the suite he observed the salesperson moving the AM loop antenna all over the place just so you could hear WWL without the part 15 interference abundant in the room; the rest of the AM band was noise. So much for that "now and wow" technology.
My limited experience with this "new and improved" technology mirrors the past. When I try an HD radio inside a big box store with florescent lights, TV's, and computer monitors HD reception is limited to only the absolute strongest signals on FM and AM is noise. Plus, why do I want to spend $200 on an HD radio when a media player is cheaper? Plus, the media player has what I want instead of what the radio station wants me to hear. Also, if you haven't noticed, kids carry around those media players the same way kids used to carry around a transistor radio 50 years ago. The writing is on the wall but the greedy (insert expletive here) of radio are so wrapped up in their own ego to notice their audience is dying off.
In the end, it's all about content and if your delivery system has a flaw it doesn't matter anyway, but what do I know.
P.S.: Remember, that hash and buzzing caused by IBOC on the AM band isn't interference. It's a proud member of the NAB serving the community and helping people.
Chiming in on Mike Walker's post, we have a retro "record store" in a mall of eclectic shops here in the center of our city. The 25-year impresario of "The Bop Shop" which stocks all manner of CDs (plus "records" in LP, 45 and 78rpm) in every musical genre reports: sales of VINYL LPs, new and used, is over the top! Biggest demo of these sales: young people, teen to 30. New and refurbished turntables and - get this - RECORD CHANGERS are such hot sellers they can't keep them in stock. A top-quality Garrard drop-type changer from the 1950s or 1960s can go for over $500 these days.
Sound Source, a local PA company that has a big consumer line but which also supplies bands and pro/semi-pro DJ gear, reports that Gemini turntables (and the like from Stanton, etc.) sell as soon as they come in. Most models are backordered. Stylii and cartridges are also big items. Last time I was in there I saw: 45rpm plastic "spider" hole adapters in a blister pack!
"The more things change, the more they remain the same...."
Sound Source, a local PA company that has a big consumer line but which also supplies bands and pro/semi-pro DJ gear, reports that Gemini turntables (and the like from Stanton, etc.) sell as soon as they come in. Most models are backordered. Stylii and cartridges are also big items. Last time I was in there I saw: 45rpm plastic "spider" hole adapters in a blister pack!
"The more things change, the more they remain the same...."
M
Mike Walker
Guest
You know, RadioRob2.0, when I speak of the positives of HD, and the FACT that it's soon coming to portable devices, I'm speaking of FM HD. AM HD just doesn't have the "wind in it's sails" that FM HD does. Yes, these devices will have AM HD as well. And it'll probably work just fine in urban areas. But FM HD is where "it's at", as far as I'm concerned. AM DOES need a path to digital transmission, but I'm convinced this ain't it!
Mike Walker said:RF, name a broadcast technology, or mode of transmission, that's ever gone away. NO, analog TV hasn't yet. Some doubt it will in 2009, regardless of the timetable. Will the Democratic congress really want to be held responsible for "turning off Grandma's TV"? Because it's elderly people, people on fixed incomes, those who can't afford, or can't get cable or satellite, who will be impacted most. And let's not forget folks like me, who despite the recent purchase of a 600 dollar antenna/rotor/preamp, CANNOT get a digital signal on Fox over the air (analog reception of Fox 18 in Charlotte, and Fox 8 in High Point are pristine). In fact I can get all networks (admittedly with a snowy picture) with rabbit ears.
I repeat, what broadcast technology, or mode of operation, has EVER gone away? By the way, what bit of recording or audio technology has gone away? Yes, I know vinyl is a minority format. But are you aware that sales of lps have INCREASED each year of the last decade, or that there are TONS of NEW turntables, cartridges, and phono preamps being introduced? You might want to visit an audio store, or seek some statistics before declaring the lp dead. And a HUGE percentage of the music we hear on the radio TO THIS DAY is recorded, and mixed on analog open-reel tape. You assert that so much can change in 20 years. I counter that TRENDS can change and develop over that period of time. Certainly one such trend today is the ascendency of downloaded music, vs. the descendency of the CD...but that doesn't mean either will "go away" in my lifetime, or yours. The BILLIONS of analog lps, and open reel tapes insure that there will be SOME market for devices to play these formats for many decades. Not only that, are you aware that many major record labels have RESUMED releasing on lp?
So please...name a broadcast, or audio technology, or mode, that's "gone away" (alright, the wax cylinder may well be on it's last leg!
Reel To Reel tapes are no longer being manufactured in the US. Even though I do have a MCI JH 110 machine with a unused spare 1/4 inch head stack as well as spare electronics and other parts and a service manual, its a dead technology. Wire Recorders, Elcassettes, 4 & 8 track tape decks for the car, the four channel SQ system, The 78 RPM record, The 45 RPM record, The old needle in groove RCA video disc system, Cart machines (They no longer make tape cartridges). Try to find a Beta Max tape or non digital 3/4 inch video tape. How about the even older 2 inch quad video tape or 16 MM film. 16 inch transcription discs, Need I go on?
radiorob2.0 said:
I remember them. And who in their right mind is going to listen to the radio and watch the TV at the same time? Especially AM radio?
I can understand FM stereo simulcasts of televised concerts......but AM? ???
Mike Walker said:
Mike forgive my pessimism but I've been down this road of, "This will save radio!". The current business model of commercial radio offers little content on their main channel and less on the sub-channels. If you're going to be a music box then a media player wins.
That being said, I will credit non-commercial radio (read: public radio) for having a clue and providing content on their sub-channels. And how about these apples, I'm in negotiations with a regional public radio network to provide programming for their HD-2 channel. I'm a program director of an internet radio station that is an extension of a music museum. Beyond the music (Bluegrass) we offer archival programming and building content every day. The manager of the station is excited and hopefully things will work out.
As I said, it's all about content. If radio today were blessed with the likes of a Gordon McLendon running the show then I would feel better. But as long as the Mays', Dickey's, and others who's life calling should of been running a real estate scam instead of radio, then I will be pessimistic.
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