My thoughts on the trends

[eGillCVI]

WWDB-AM: What's the deal with this station? I have never even heard it. How are they making any money? Why are they still around?

WPHI & WUSL: Well, WPHI's big frequency move didn't hurt them. But it doesn't seem to have helped either. (Of course, in reality, it did because R1 now has WPPZ.) If it weren't for R1's ownership (thus creating the WRNB/WPPZ/WPHI triple-threat), WPHI would have bit the dust ages ago. Power is still on top of this battle. Ironically, I prefer the music and the jocks on WPHI. Power sounds very sanitized/Clear Channel to me. (But what do I know?)

WBEN-FM: Oh wow. Yeah, exactly: "Oh wow." I am of the opinion that this is a temporary spike. I just have no faith in this format...especially not in Philly.

WSNI: Still safe! It's next-to-free for CC to operate and they're making money in the demo.

WJJZ: I thought for sure that Q102 was under the CC microscope but everything's changed now. Does anyone know how WJJZ is doing in the demo? I suspect not well due to the newly competitive state of the market. Will they Chill? Will they go Alt-Rock (doubtful)? Classical (doubtful)? Real Jazz (I wish)? I'd say I feel sorry for the airstaff--but no one works there.

WIOQ & WRDW: I know I sound like a broken record. THEY SUCK. What are Chio's numbers like? Can they really be good? Eww. And juvenile Rocco & his idiot friends are just a waste of money. Get rid of them already. Jessie Jordan is the station's saving grace. But she's not enough to combat the problems with the music. Meanwhile, Wired is consistent. How are they doing vs. Q in the demo?

WMMR: I certainly didn't expect this. Winning listeners simply because Y100 went away shouldn't feel that good. But winning more of them than WYSP should.

WMGK: Up a few tics even with BEN-FM in the market. Interesting and almost inexplicable.

WDAS-FM & WRNB: WRNB has certainly made quick work of this battle! It was surprisingly easy. For years, we waited for someone to take on WDAS-FM. "What are they waiting for?" we implored. Well now we know: They were waiting for Mr. Tom Joyner!

WOGL & WPEN: Nag, nag, nag. Complain, complain, complain. Cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching! That's for WOGL anyway. As for WPEN, I have one question: WHEN?

B101: No need for comment.

 

[StopsetBreak]

>
> WPHI & WUSL: Well, WPHI's big frequency move didn't hurt
> them. But it doesn't seem to have helped either. (Of
> course, in reality, it did because R1 now has WPPZ.) If it
> weren't for R1's ownership (thus creating the WRNB/WPPZ/WPHI
> triple-threat), WPHI would have bit the dust ages ago.
> Power is still on top of this battle. Ironically, I prefer
> the music and the jocks on WPHI. Power sounds very
> sanitized/Clear Channel to me. (But what do I know?)

True, but hearing Gwen Stefani on Power makes zero sense. They shouldn't be reacting to the pop/urban down the dial ('PHI) that is barely making any kind of dent. By the way, the night show on The Beat is amazing. The best night show on a music station in Philly hands down.


> WBEN-FM: Oh wow. Yeah, exactly: "Oh wow." I am of the
> opinion that this is a temporary spike. I just have no
> faith in this format...especially not in Philly.

They'll morph back into Hot AC once the "fad" is over.


> WSNI: Still safe! It's next-to-free for CC to operate and
> they're making money in the demo.

Safe = boring.


> WJJZ: I thought for sure that Q102 was under the CC
> microscope but everything's changed now. Does anyone know
> how WJJZ is doing in the demo? I suspect not well due to
> the newly competitive state of the market. Will they Chill?
> Will they go Alt-Rock (doubtful)? Classical (doubtful)?
> Real Jazz (I wish)? I'd say I feel sorry for the
> airstaff--but no one works there.

No to Chill, MAYBE CC will try Alt Rock here. 106-1 THE EDGE! Ahh, I'm dreaming.


> WIOQ & WRDW: I know I sound like a broken record. THEY
> SUCK. What are Chio's numbers like? Can they really be
> good? Eww. And juvenile Rocco & his idiot friends are just
> a waste of money. Get rid of them already. Jessie Jordan
> is the station's saving grace. But she's not enough to
> combat the problems with the music. Meanwhile, Wired is
> consistent. How are they doing vs. Q in the demo?

Wow, totally disgaree with you about the horrible night girl on WIOQ. You've gotta be kidding me. I have never once heard her do anything compelling and I've heard college deejays construct better breaks than her. Q's "saving grace"? Kasper in afternoons easily. Sounds like a true night show in PM Drive. Same with Wired - Kannon blows anyone else on the Wired away. That's your major battle on those two stations. Agree about Rocco The Janitor.

> WMMR: I certainly didn't expect this. Winning listeners
> simply because Y100 went away shouldn't feel that good. But
> winning more of them than WYSP should.

Getting rid of Dee was a good move though, don't you think?

> WDAS-FM & WRNB: WRNB has certainly made quick work of this
> battle! It was surprisingly easy. For years, we waited for
> someone to take on WDAS-FM. "What are they waiting for?" we
> implored. Well now we know: They were waiting for Mr. Tom
> Joyner!

Showing that "live and local" isn't everything. Carter and Sanborn have their work cut out for them in mornings. I think eventually things will even out once the hype surrounding the new station dies down a bit.


Good topic. Just my two pennies.

 

[eGillCVI]

Re: My thoughts on the trends//Oops!

> True, but hearing Gwen Stefani on Power makes zero sense.
> They shouldn't be reacting to the pop/urban down the dial
> ('PHI) that is barely making any kind of dent. By the way,
> the night show on The Beat is amazing. The best night show
> on a music station in Philly hands down.
I hadn't heard Gwen on Power. That's quite amazing to me. It's funny how competition makes these programmers do the dumbest things.

> > WSNI: Still safe! It's next-to-free for CC to operate
> and
> > they're making money in the demo.
>
> Safe = boring.
Yes, but in this particular case, safe = boring = revenue.

> No to Chill, MAYBE CC will try Alt Rock here. 106-1 THE
> EDGE! Ahh, I'm dreaming.
Why no Chill on 106.1? Just wondering.

> > WIOQ & WRDW: I know I sound like a broken record. THEY
> > SUCK. What are Chio's numbers like? Can they really be
> > good? Eww. And juvenile Rocco & his idiot friends are
> just
> > a waste of money. Get rid of them already. Jessie Jordan
>
> > is the station's saving grace. But she's not enough to
> > combat the problems with the music. Meanwhile, Wired is
> > consistent. How are they doing vs. Q in the demo?
>
> Wow, totally disgaree with you about the horrible night girl
> on WIOQ. You've gotta be kidding me. I have never once heard
> her do anything compelling and I've heard college deejays
> construct better breaks than her. Q's "saving grace"? Kasper
> in afternoons easily. Sounds like a true night show in PM
> Drive. Same with Wired - Kannon blows anyone else on the
> Wired away. That's your major battle on those two stations.
> Agree about Rocco The Janitor.
You made some excellent points here. I somehow completely forgot about Kasper. Yes, he does an excellent show. As for Jessie, I just like her energy and she has great phoners. But you're right: Kasper is the saving grace at Q.

You know what's ridiculous? That night guy on Wired. What's his name? Chris or something? Oofah! Lame humor, poor enunciation, and the voice of a 13 year old who's body is "going through some changes." Not in market #6, please!

> > WMMR: I certainly didn't expect this. Winning listeners
> > simply because Y100 went away shouldn't feel that good.
> But
> > winning more of them than WYSP should.
>
> Getting rid of Dee was a good move though, don't you think?
Hell yeah. I can't understand the reasoning for having him on in the first place.

> > WDAS-FM & WRNB: WRNB has certainly made quick work of
> this
> > battle! It was surprisingly easy. For years, we waited
> for
> > someone to take on WDAS-FM. "What are they waiting for?"
> we
> > implored. Well now we know: They were waiting for Mr.
> Tom
> > Joyner!
>
> Showing that "live and local" isn't everything. Carter and
> Sanborn have their work cut out for them in mornings. I
> think eventually things will even out once the hype
> surrounding the new station dies down a bit.
I have always thought Carter & Sanborn were overrated. Good but not great. (I'm sure I'll hear about that since one of them peruses these boards.) The combination of Tom Joyner and the superior music on WRNB leads the way to a clear winner (in my opinion).

> Good topic. Just my two pennies.
Thanks!

 

[deepstblu]

> WWDB-AM: What's the deal with this station? I have never
> even heard it.

A lot of people have probably never heard of it, let alone heard it, even though the station has existed since 1925. Most of that time it was foreign language broadcaster WTEL, sharing time on 1340 with WHAT until sometime in the '50s. It was almost all Spanish-language by the late '90s when they tried mainstream talk as an AM companion to WWDB 96.5. After a couple years of that they went back to the WTEL calls and played gospel for a while, then became WWDB again with the business news format.

> How are they making any money? Why are they still around?

Infomercials on the weekends, and getting paid to take Imus.

 

[Jim_Hicks]

While I don't care for their money talk format, it is a local outlet for Imus (although I usually listen to him on WFAN). The 860 signal has improved recently and the stationdoes a decent job with their format, if you are into that kind of talk. The station cannot be a major player due to the sunrise to sunset restriction, but it is a money maker. Stations in several major markets are doing well with this approach. And let's face it, there are few options left these days for AM's.


> WWDB-AM: What's the deal with this station? I have never
> even heard it. How are they making any money? Why are they
> still around?
>
> WPHI & WUSL: Well, WPHI's big frequency move didn't hurt
> them. But it doesn't seem to have helped either. (Of
> course, in reality, it did because R1 now has WPPZ.) If it
> weren't for R1's ownership (thus creating the WRNB/WPPZ/WPHI
> triple-threat), WPHI would have bit the dust ages ago.
> Power is still on top of this battle. Ironically, I prefer
> the music and the jocks on WPHI. Power sounds very
> sanitized/Clear Channel to me. (But what do I know?)
>
> WBEN-FM: Oh wow. Yeah, exactly: "Oh wow." I am of the
> opinion that this is a temporary spike. I just have no
> faith in this format...especially not in Philly.
>
> WSNI: Still safe! It's next-to-free for CC to operate and
> they're making money in the demo.
>
> WJJZ: I thought for sure that Q102 was under the CC
> microscope but everything's changed now. Does anyone know
> how WJJZ is doing in the demo? I suspect not well due to
> the newly competitive state of the market. Will they Chill?
> Will they go Alt-Rock (doubtful)? Classical (doubtful)?
> Real Jazz (I wish)? I'd say I feel sorry for the
> airstaff--but no one works there.
>
> WIOQ & WRDW: I know I sound like a broken record. THEY
> SUCK. What are Chio's numbers like? Can they really be
> good? Eww. And juvenile Rocco & his idiot friends are just
> a waste of money. Get rid of them already. Jessie Jordan
> is the station's saving grace. But she's not enough to
> combat the problems with the music. Meanwhile, Wired is
> consistent. How are they doing vs. Q in the demo?
>
> WMMR: I certainly didn't expect this. Winning listeners
> simply because Y100 went away shouldn't feel that good. But
> winning more of them than WYSP should.
>
> WMGK: Up a few tics even with BEN-FM in the market.
> Interesting and almost inexplicable.
>
> WDAS-FM & WRNB: WRNB has certainly made quick work of this
> battle! It was surprisingly easy. For years, we waited for
> someone to take on WDAS-FM. "What are they waiting for?" we
> implored. Well now we know: They were waiting for Mr. Tom
> Joyner!
>
> WOGL & WPEN: Nag, nag, nag. Complain, complain, complain.
> Cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching! That's for WOGL anyway.
> As for WPEN, I have one question: WHEN?
>
> B101: No need for comment.
>

 

[Wexler]

Re: My thoughts on the trends//Oops!

the radio 1 irony - one station positions itself as "live and local", as though syndication is a horrible thing, and then their "new" station (which should change their calls to TJMS) is driven by syndication.

I have great confidence that radio 1 will screw this one up. Drop a $12,000,000 a year station so you can have a $1,000,000 a year gospel and waste that strong signal on a piece of dawg sh*t hip hop station that has been all over the map since 1997...not to say that hip hop is dawg sh*t, I am saying that the beat is, well, beat...and continues to be beaten...now that BEN is alive I think the beat is either the lowest or second lowest (to WPPZ) ranked FM station in the market.

Simple math here:

WRNB: $10,000,000 ?
WPLY: $10,000,000 ?
WPHI: $5,000,000 ?
Total: $25,000,000 for cluster

WRNB: $10,000,000
WPHI: $5,000,000
WPPZ: $1,000,000
Total: $16,000,000 for cluster

Hmmmmm, I thought Clear Channel was the group with Less Is More?

 

[crisisbroadcast]

Re: My thoughts on the trends//Oops!

> Simple math here:
>
> WRNB: $10,000,000 ?
> WPLY: $10,000,000 ?
> WPHI: $5,000,000 ?
> Total: $25,000,000 for cluster
>
> WRNB: $10,000,000
> WPHI: $5,000,000
> WPPZ: $1,000,000
> Total: $16,000,000 for cluster
>
> Hmmmmm, I thought Clear Channel was the group with Less Is
> More?

First, in all fairness, you have to take into account the fact that PHI is naturally going to eventually bill more on the larger, more powerful, more accessible signal on 100.3. That $5 million figure is one they plan on leaving behind on 103.9's signal. That number will go up. (Trust me, it pains me just as much as it pains you to see this!)

Second, WRNB and WPPZ are going to be working with WPHI. What was amazing about the former WPLY was that it was such a niche format attracting such a comparatively small share of the market and it still brought in upwards of $10 million on its own. R1's strategy of selling its Philly FMs as a triple threat as it now can (appealing to much similar demos than when it was WPLY and WPHI/WRNB) is actually wise and proven.

R1 may still mess this one up, but they have created what can be a tremendous opportunity for them to essentially hijack radio in these key Philadelphia demographics.

Good points, Wexler! Just adding my two cents.
<P ID="signature">______________
Chris Roberts
fifthphoenix.com / fpxmedia.com
phoenixvillecommunity.com</P>

 

[BobAltimari]

> WWDB-AM: What's the deal with this station? I have never
> even heard it. How are they making any money? Why are they
> still around?

Daytimer - Imus mornings (special deal with WW1 to clear Philly even tho' ol' Leatherface tanked at PHT) and business talk/brokered the rest of the time until they sign-off at sundown. Most, if not all, of the shows are piped in from elsewhere (Beastley's Florida Biz Talker). Translation: cheap to run with no live jocks/on the bird/computer automation. See also: WJJZ, WSNI.

> WPHI & WUSL: Well, WPHI's big frequency move didn't hurt
> them. But it doesn't seem to have helped either. (Of
> course, in reality, it did because R1 now has WPPZ.) If it
> weren't for R1's ownership (thus creating the WRNB/WPPZ/WPHI
> triple-threat), WPHI would have bit the dust ages ago.
> Power is still on top of this battle. Ironically, I prefer
> the music and the jocks on WPHI. Power sounds very
> sanitized/Clear Channel to me. (But what do I know?)

A sanitized Cheap Channel station? NO! You're kiddin'? LOL! As far as PHI biting the dust, I doubt it. What else would Radio One flip to?

> WBEN-FM: Oh wow. Yeah, exactly: "Oh wow." I am of the
> opinion that this is a temporary spike. I just have no
> faith in this format...especially not in Philly.

Yanno, I'm less than impressed with BEN. You'd think a station, with an implied "large format/we play whatever we feel like" library there'd be some "oh wow" factor. Some tunes no one's touched for a long time. What it is is a mish-mosh of safe tunes that you could find on other stations without the other crap you don't want to hear. BEN will hurt MMR, WMGK and that's about it. Or, as I call it, every single failed format that's been on 95.7 since GM dumped Classical WFLN. You're right, Eg...I just see another "flavor of the month" format for the WBEN-FM crew.

> WSNI: Still safe! It's next-to-free for CC to operate and
> they're making money in the demo.

Still safe...and voicetracked. Low overhead = a modest return. Sunny is far from what it used to be when they "returned".

> WJJZ: I thought for sure that Q102 was under the CC
> microscope but everything's changed now. Does anyone know
> how WJJZ is doing in the demo? I suspect not well due to
> the newly competitive state of the market. Will they Chill?
> Will they go Alt-Rock (doubtful)? Classical (doubtful)?
> Real Jazz (I wish)? I'd say I feel sorry for the
> airstaff--but no one works there.

I would dare even say that Smooth Jazz/New Adult Contemporary is next on the endangered formats list, next to oldies. It appeals mostly to an older demo...one which radio seems to be shying away from in recent years. As far as airstaff and making money...see also: WWDB, WSNI

> WIOQ & WRDW: I know I sound like a broken record. THEY
> SUCK. What are Chio's numbers like? Can they really be
> good? Eww. And juvenile Rocco & his idiot friends are just
> a waste of money. Get rid of them already. Jessie Jordan
> is the station's saving grace. But she's not enough to
> combat the problems with the music. Meanwhile, Wired is
> consistent. How are they doing vs. Q in the demo?

Wired took The Beat and Power and tailored it to suburbanites who dig rhythmic music. Can't fault them for that. The problem with Q might be from what's being pushed as pop product in 2K5. They always respond and they'll be back on track.

> WMMR: I certainly didn't expect this. Winning listeners
> simply because Y100 went away shouldn't feel that good. But
> winning more of them than WYSP should.

Gotta tip your hat to MMR. I see good things for them now that Dee Snider is out of the picture. Perhaps, they can trend more towards full-blown Alternative?

> WMGK: Up a few tics even with BEN-FM in the market.
> Interesting and almost inexplicable.

This one's a headscratcher. BEN should be KILLING MGK, due to the shared library. I don't think The Hawk moving to 97.5 is a factor.....just yet.

> WDAS-FM & WRNB: WRNB has certainly made quick work of this
> battle! It was surprisingly easy. For years, we waited for
> someone to take on WDAS-FM. "What are they waiting for?" we
> implored. Well now we know: They were waiting for Mr. Tom
> Joyner!

Radio One beat Clear Channel at their own game, secure the rights to the high profile shows and throw them on your stations and then count the money. Plus, WRNB has no jocks and they spin more gold, IMO. Personally, I like RNB better. Now repeat - no jocks = low overhead = $$$ Rinse, lather, repeat.

> WOGL & WPEN: Nag, nag, nag. Complain, complain, complain.
> Cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching! That's for WOGL anyway.
> As for WPEN, I have one question: WHEN?

This only proves A) Oldies is still marketable B) Infinity made a HUGE BLUNDER flipping CBS-FM to Jack instead of the station that needed it (read: WNEW) C) WPEN is hamstrung by the whoring out of the weekends/nights. The night pattern certainly doesn't work any wonders for them, either.

> B101: No need for comment.
>
If it ain't broke, why fix it? See also: KYW<P ID="signature">______________
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>

 

[Wexler]

Re: Urban Radio in Philly...

Bigger signal does not equate to bigger ratings...as seen in this last trend. Bigger revenue may be a benefit of having a signal that reaches suburban listeners, but there is not enough of a significant revenue stream from suburban clients looking to target the urban listener. Even if WPHI comes close to Power99 in a couple of books, buyers are going to look at herritage and track record before gravitating to WPHI simply because it's "what they've always done"...WPHI's history is it's worst enemy - they were there before and blew it during the Miss Jonsey era. If you want to see a prime example of ratings and no revenue look no further than Wired.

In addition, there are too many 18-34 radio options relative to the amount of 18-34 buys. Who would you buy? Power 99 that has been #1 in 18-34 forever, Q102 that is just as consistent even with Wired, who although has a strong cume has a messed up listener breakout (55% Urban)...or WYSP, WMMR, B101 or WDAS...then you get to WPHI...which you would think that since they have been on a stronger signal since March, and with a new morning show, they would have some signs of life.

The wild card is WPPZ. I can see where WPPZ actually could be a player...but if that happens then it might cannibalize WRNB...there really isn't enough dedicated "urban" radio dollars to go around. That's why WDAS and Power99 did so well for so many years - buyers had to buy 1 or 2 urban stations (depending on how deep they were going) to "mirror" the market...and with WDAS being the number 1 station in the market you simply had to include them in general market buys anyway...so Power was your #1 station when including an 18-34 urban.

I guess my point is that there are way too many "urban" audience options relative to the amount of buys targeting urban, and buyers simply do not embrace the "urban is a life style" pitch. So the "tripple threat" theory really doesn't come into play when the market is only 20% urban. Buyers are told to buy "general market" which means "white". It's not like Philadelphia urban is pivotal to companies marketing initiatives...it's actually the other way around - "buy the market as it reflects in the population percentages"...not "buy the urban stations because they have a tripple threat". I am sure that the people at Power 99 have felt discriminated against for years simply because they might have much higher ratings than "white" stations yet they are still not included in "general market" buys...because their audience profile is african american dominant.

So, WRNB might split the 25-54 revenue with WDAS...and WPPZ might pick up some scraps here and there on general market and be the death of WDAS AM...but with Power, Q102, Wired (and hell WDAS gets more 18-34 listeners than WPHI) the tripple threat might fit the company's profile (the Urban Radio Specialist) it's not going to increase their profits...in my opinion.


> > Simple math here:
> >
> > WRNB: $10,000,000 ?
> > WPLY: $10,000,000 ?
> > WPHI: $5,000,000 ?
> > Total: $25,000,000 for cluster
> >
> > WRNB: $10,000,000
> > WPHI: $5,000,000
> > WPPZ: $1,000,000
> > Total: $16,000,000 for cluster
> >
> > Hmmmmm, I thought Clear Channel was the group with Less Is
>
> > More?
>
> First, in all fairness, you have to take into account the
> fact that PHI is naturally going to eventually bill more on
> the larger, more powerful, more accessible signal on 100.3.
> That $5 million figure is one they plan on leaving behind on
> 103.9's signal. That number will go up. (Trust me, it
> pains me just as much as it pains you to see this!)
>
> Second, WRNB and WPPZ are going to be working with WPHI.
> What was amazing about the former WPLY was that it was such
> a niche format attracting such a comparatively small share
> of the market and it still brought in upwards of $10 million
> on its own. R1's strategy of selling its Philly FMs as a
> triple threat as it now can (appealing to much similar demos
> than when it was WPLY and WPHI/WRNB) is actually wise and
> proven.
>
> R1 may still mess this one up, but they have created what
> can be a tremendous opportunity for them to essentially
> hijack radio in these key Philadelphia demographics.
>
> Good points, Wexler! Just adding my two cents.
>