My thoughts on when network TV affiliates becoming indies

[spencerkarter85]

Here's my thoughts. When KRON-TV 4 in Bay Area lost its NBC affiliation on New Years Eve 2001 and going indie (thanks to conflicts with Young Broadcasting and NBC purchasing KNTV 11 formerly in San Jose market). It was like the end of the era in Bay Area Broadcasting. I know that KRON pre-empted some NBC shows (like Another World which is now off the air). But KRON returned to network TV affiliation with MyNetworkTV in 2006, and broadcasting NBC shows pre-empted by O&O KNTV. Success

Similar story, when WJXT-TV 4 in Jacksonville, FL (owned by Post) lost its CBS affiliation and going indie in the Summer 2002. It was also the end of the CBS era on WJXT. But unfortunately in 2006, WJXT refused to be affiliated with MyNetworkTV and remain indie. As a result, MNT is on their subchannel of its FOX station in the market. FAIL

On non-commercial station, KCET-TV 28 in Los Angeles, California was the end of the PBS era in LA Broadcasting in the early 2010s when they became an indie educational station. Now, KOCE 50 is the main PBS in LA. So-So

What do you think?

 

[SteveRichards]

I don't think anyone who knows anything about the business would call the KRON situation a success. NBC ultimately came out the winner, as KNTV is a success, but everyone would have been a lot better off if Young had just gotten out of the way and let NBC buy KRON. KRON would have been able to keep its NBC identity and would have had continued success; Young wouldn't have been forced to sell WKBT (CBS) in LaCrosse, Wis. just to make the downpayment on KRON; and Young ultimately would not have had to sell KCAL in L.A. to CBS and WTVO (ABC) in Rockford, Ill. to Mission. The KRON fiasco has pretty much ruined Young and forced the company into bankruptcy. And due to KRON's lack of a major network affiliation (MyNet hardly counts) and low ratings, the station is worth only a fraction of what it was worth when Young bought it. In the battle of egos between Young and NBC, NBC won, but NBC had to literally pour millions into KNTV to make the San Jose-based station successful in San Francisco. If NBC had stayed on KRON, it would have been interesting to see what direction KNTV (which was Granite-owned at the time) would have taken.

I don't really know how things are going for WJXT in Jacksonville. I would imagine, in hindsight, that Post-Newsweek wished it hadn't thrown away WJXT's CBS affiliation. The station can't be doing the numbers that it was as a CBS affiliate. I believe that not too long after WJXT dropped CBS, sister station WKMG in Orlando re-upped with CBS. That tells me that Post-Newsweek wasn't interested in throwing that away, as well.

I've also read that KCET is really in bad shape since dropping PBS. It's one thing for a commercial station to drop a network and go indie. Although they may not be quite as popular and get the numbers that the network shows do, there is a glut of syndicated shows out there, and if the station has the resources, they can continue to do lots of local news and at least attract some audience with that. On the educational side (and I'm not an expert on PBS or educational TV, by any means), there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of compelling programming outside of PBS, at least enough to fill a full schedule.

 

[bpatrick]

I have heard that ABC has tried to affiliate with WJXT (which
would move ABC from virtual Ch. 25 to virtual Ch. 4) and has
been turned down. Don't know if Gannett, which has the duopoly
of WTLV/12 (NBC) and WJXX/25 (ABC), would even go for ABC's
going somewhere else.

Anyone's thoughts on KTVK Phoenix and WTVW Evansville, IN?

 

[spencerkarter85]

KTVK switch from ABC to Independent was called The Great Phoenix Network Switch of '94 to me.

 

[KeithE4]

KTVK switch from ABC to Independent was called The Great Phoenix Network Switch of '94 to me.

Their programming, outside of news, is of no interest to me (or any other guy) since they dropped sports, but one can't say they've been unsuccessful. If done right, and the capital is there (which it has been for KTVK under both MACAmerica and Belo ownership), it can work.

But I would have thought that the stations who were forced to become independent in the '50s would have had a rougher go - even the stations in NY, Chicago, and LA to a certain extent. I'm talking about WGN-TV Chicago (Dumont to indie in 1956), WTTV Indianapolis (ABC to indie in '57), KPHO-TV Phoenix (CBS/Dumont to indie in '55), WABD New York & WTTG Washington (Dumont to Dumont-owned indies in '56) and KTTV Los Angeles (Dumont to indie in '54). All did well as independents.

 

[azumanga]

Here's my thoughts. When KRON-TV 4 in Bay Area lost its NBC affiliation on New Years Eve 2001 and going indie (thanks to conflicts with Young Broadcasting and NBC purchasing KNTV 11 formerly in San Jose market). It was like the end of the era in Bay Area Broadcasting. I know that KRON pre-empted some NBC shows (like Another World which is now off the air). But KRON returned to network TV affiliation with MyNetworkTV in 2006, and broadcasting NBC shows pre-empted by O&O KNTV. Success

But then again, it was saddled with a broadcaster who ended up not only costing KRON the NBC affiliation, but also ended up in bankruptcy -- Young Broadcasting. Its ratings ended up falling to the competition, and the station suffered numerous cutbacks because of this and Young's misfortune, so in reality, KRON as an indie is a "fail".

In fact, MyNetworkTV is generally a "fail" -- it started with a line-up of telenovelas, then became largely a rerun network, and is now a rerun syndication service. And the fortunes of most MNTV affiliates are on the downside -- look at WWOR, for instance, which is worse off as a Fox-owned MNTV station than they were under RKO ownership.

 

[TVCOOL]

Sinclair should buy WWOR off WNYW and return WWOR to indy status (i.e. NY Mets ,NY Knicks ,NY Rangers ,NJ/NY Nets ,NY Islanders ,NJ Devils and Ring of Honor (ROH) Wrestling [air ROH on saturdays 11am a throwback to pro wrestling on saturday mornings].) And get KCAL off CBS as well.

 

[spencerkarter85]

KTTV was affiliated with CBS in the Los Angeles market before moving to KNXT (now KCBS) in 1951.

 

[landtuna]

KTVK switch from ABC to Independent was called The Great Phoenix Network Switch of '94 to me.

I called it the Great Phoenix Television Realignment Disaster of 1994.

KTVK lost ABC and became an estrogen-fueled indie. Aside from their Saturday AM morning show there is nothing except the very occasional 9PM news that interests me.

KPHO went from very successful indie to very successful CBS. They had a very good indie line-up of shows and we already had a CBS affiliate so nothing was gained for the viewer in this exchange.

KSAZ lost CBS and became Fox and, IMHO, traded quality programming for Fox junk. Their local morning show is the only program I watch.

KPNX - no change - was NBC, stayed NBC. Been in the toilet ever since.

KNXV went from second-tier indie to ABC. Good move for the station. Mixed move for viewers. It had been a station that made a living showing movies and features and now these have all moved to the new digital subs. This year ABC finally has some decent network fare but it has been a long wait.

 

[arnoldevns]

Let me run through a few of these and tell you whether they have succeeded or failed:

KRON - massive failure. In fact, it is not going out on a limb to say this station has had the worst decline in value and ratings of any station in the history of American local television broadcasting. This station was sold for some ridiculous sum of money (I want to say it was nearly 800 million dollars) to Young Broadcasting. Their ratings fell apart after they lost their NBC affiliation. It's now valued at a tiny fraction of what Young bought it for. The My Network TV affiliation saves them some money, but certainly doesn't do much to bring in revenue. KRON has gone from being the top rated and top billing station in one of the top 5 markets to being a station that is near the bottom of the ratings and in such a bad financial situation that there has been concern by some on staff they might have to go dark. I think it has leveled out somewhat compared to a few years ago, but it's still in just awful shape.

WJXT - okay, not great. Much better managed station than the KRON situation. It's lost some ratings to be sure, but it's still fairly competitive. They made the decision not to keep their network affiliation based on their concerns about the financial relationship they had with their network. It's unlikely another network is going to come back to them with an offer that would satisfy whatever financial concerns they had. Staying independent can work if done right. So far, they're okay... just not "great!"

KTVK - probably the best success story of any independent in the country. They greatly expanded their local news after losing their network affiliation. The station has largely maintained their news ratings and are generally considered the highest rated independent in the country. They have embraced localism and are reaping the rewards.

 

[landtuna]

KTVK - probably the best success story of any independent in the country. They greatly expanded their local news after losing their network affiliation. The station has largely maintained their news ratings and are generally considered the highest rated independent in the country. They have embraced localism and are reaping the rewards.

Agree with your "localism" adjective but disagree with news ratings. KTVK and KSAZ are essentially both indie news stations as Fox does not have a network news feature (although they do seemingly have a few news "feature" stories from time to time).

I see no significant difference between these two news departments. Both lean towards local stories and both have similar staffs - although KTVK's seems to be more "mobile", at least lately. Both also have very similar news show times.

In any case, there is generally too much "news time" on Phoenix TV these days and not enough coverage of the real important stories. Car crashes, house fires and convenience store robberies are not events which impact or are of significant interest to most of us. They would all be better served to cover in-depth stories of economics, political and legal malfeasance and items which have a direct impact on the majority of local viewers.

Just my .02. YMMV

 

[easttxtv]

KRON pre-empted some NBC shows (like Another World which is now off the air).Success

>ugh< Don't even get me started about KRON....

Meanwhile, the only affiliate-to-indies I know enough about::::

KTXA/21, was UPN but lost out on being in on successor-net CW.... has done fairly well as a Viacom-owned, then CBS O/O indie; it's had a good fallback with local sports (mostly Mavericks), some news-gathering with fellow O/O KTVT/11, and ability to land some of the popular syndicated sitcoms' local rights.

KFWD/52, was Telemundo but went English-language indie when Telemundo owner NBC bought long-time English-language indie KXTX/39.... as it changed languages it had to pretty much start from scratch for programming; as major markets (including DFW) started seeing a wave of duopoly pairings, KFWD would eventually be involved as well, when WFAA/8 (ABC non-O/O) became LMA'd with Ch.52. With that deal, there would be more programming mix (Ch.8 news repeats, second showings of Oprah in primetime, etc), but I've never heard how this impacted the station long-term when it came to ratings. WFAA's insistence on Ch.8 and Ch.52 both getting into VHF when the digital switch came, likely was KFWD's greatest stumble post-switch, as ability to view both stations in digital / HD was compromised afterward (many viewers have had trouble receiving one or both stations without having to give up and subscribe to cable or sat). WFAA's owner, Belo, has done very little if any promotion of the station or it's schedule since the switch, either, which doesn't help viewers with awareness of what KFWD has to offer. So, time-will-tell/mixed-bag I guess.

 

[Iowan]

If My Network TV is to disband, it won't be 'til 2014...

 

[azumanga]

KFWD/52, was Telemundo but went English-language indie when Telemundo owner NBC bought long-time English-language indie KXTX/39.... as it changed languages it had to pretty much start from scratch for programming...

Along the same token, how did WCIU in Chicago fared after becoming a full-time English language station again in 1995? During the 1980s and early-1990s, they were largely a Spanish-language station (save for Stock Market Observer and some ethnic shows), first with Telemundo, and later with Univision, until WGBO was bought by Univision in 1995, enabling that network to move to WGBO. While the digital era has proved to be WCIU's (and Weigel's) most-successful period, how was WCIU's fortunes back in 1995, when they decided to revert back to a mostly-English schedule?

 

[chrish]

WJKS-TV 17 lost ABC to WTLV and became NBC then lost NBC to WTLV again but ABC never returned to WJKS. The loss of CBS by Post Newsweek WJXT was as moronic as the KRON situation. When I lived in Jacksonville WJXT was always far and away the very prestigious market leader with WTLV a distant second and WJKS a very distant third. Whatever they call WJKS these day is relegated to the CW.
How times change the radio market leader of prestige was city of Jacksonville municipally owned WJAX 930 very strong NBC radio affiliate going back to 1925, now neither exist in any real form.

 

[spencerkarter85]

I know that the final NBC network show that KRON 4 in SF aired as an NBC affiliate on 12/31/2001 was now-defunct drama Crossing Jordan at 10:00pm Pacific. Then at 11:35pm that night before 2002 started KNTV as SF's new NBC and also O&O affiliate's first program was The Tonight Show with Jay Leno (1992-2009 incarnation, not the 2010-present one).

What was the final CBS network program that WJXT 4 in Jacksonville, Florida aired during its final night as a "Eye" affiliate on July 14, 2002? Then July 15, 2002 marked "The End of The CBS Era in Jacksonville" and ending a 52 year relationship with CBS and becoming an Indie til this day.

 

[TexasTom]

Sinclair should buy WWOR off WNYW and return WWOR to indy status (i.e. NY Mets ,NY Knicks ,NY Rangers ,NJ/NY Nets ,NY Islanders ,NJ Devils and Ring of Honor (ROH) Wrestling [air ROH on saturdays 11am a throwback to pro wrestling on saturday mornings].) And get KCAL off CBS as well.

That's not likely to happen, as neither News Corp or CBS are likely to be interested in breaking up their duopolies in the two largest TV markets. And even if they were, I doubt that Sinclair would want to get involved with markets that large, as their current strength is mostly in medium sized markets.

But on the subject of network affiliates going independent, does anyone have information on how the last batch of new indies (such as former Fox KTRV channel 12 in Boise/Nampa, ID) are now doing?

 

[Marckd]

In some ways the stations that were network affiliates that swicthed to Fox are now independents being Fox only programs 2 hours a day on weekdays, a bit more weekend swith sports.

One Fox Affiliate I know of 7 WSVN Miami still considers themselves an independent that runs Fox programming rather than a Fox station. They refuse to call themselves Fox 7. WSVN really set the tone for independent stations today in many ways. back in 1989 most independent stations ran a mix of cartoons, classic and recent sitcoms, old movies, and drama shows, and maybe some sports. Most had no newscasts except in large markets. WSVN was the second Fox station to have morning newscasts. They set the stage for the future...Lots of news, talk shows, reality shows, and some movies to fill time. By 1994 when New World converted mostly CBS affiliates as well as an NBC affiliate, and a couple ABC affiliates to Fox, they took the WSVN model. Fox even acquired a few affiliates and converted them to a similar format to New World and WSVN. New World stations opted not to run Fox Kids, assigning that to other stations in their markets. Fox initially did run Fox Kids on their converts. Eventually they buy New World stations and they continue not running Fox Kids there. The big change they made was better syndicated shows in the evenings after the news. Eventually Fox ends the kids programs altogether and their O & O original stations now have evening newscasts as well.

Today no independent, CW station, My Newtork station, or Fox station has kids shows, they have some sitcoms, almost no movies to speak of, plenty of talk and reality shows, and in many cases at least 30 hours a week of news with some exceptions (mostly CW and My Network stations).

Now my thoughts on some of the switches

Miami - 7 WSVN - okay nothing great - lackluster syndicated shows to suppliment news intensive format. For a while 39 WDZL and 33 WBFS gained with stronger shows.

Cleveland - 1994 - 8 WJW - CBS to Fox - okay - WOIO Fox to CBS good - the big gain there wa 55 WBNX going from infomercials to general entertainment taking some of the shows WOIO no longer had room for. So viewers gained a choice

Phoenix - Unusual one - Phase one 9/94 - 5 KPHO ind to CBS - good
10 KSAZ CBS to independent - horrible - weak programming - tons of KPHO shows no longer on anymore
15 KNXV - Fox taking ABC shows like Good Morning America that KTVK has no use for anymore
3 KTVK - preempting huge amounts of ABC shows
Phase 2 - KSAZ - takes Fox prime time and sports - has room for Kids shows but turns that down - but the shows they are running are very weak - poor
3 KTVK gains Fox Kids stuff which they run 8 hours a day Saturday and Sunday, stays ABC for Prime time and Sports and some soaps - still adjusting
15 KNXV - an independent but clearing ABC shows not on KTVK anymore
Phase 3 Janaury 95 - 3 KTVK - an independent running Fox Kids an hour early weekdays leading into Oprah WInfrey, running Wheel and Jeopardy in prime time, running piles of sitcoms picked up from KPHO and KNXV on weekends - WB shows Saturday Night - still adjsuting
5 KPHO - increased News and now a pretty typical CBS affiliate - good
10 KSAZ - Typical Weak new World Fox Affiliate - poor
15 KNXV - Now a typical ABC affiliate - good
Phase 4 - In the Fall of 95 TV 61 KASW signs on with a independent schedule made up of shows formerly on KPHO and KNXV, Fox Kids, WB shows, and Kids WB - managed by KTVK - excellent
3 KTVK - now more focused on Talk shows but still running some traditional independent fare in prime time and weekends

Kansas City - 9/94 4 WDAF NBC to Fox - fair
41 KSHB Fox to NBC - okay
other stations - poor for a year till WB affiliate and independent signs on in 1995 - from 95 on viewers gain 2 choices

Detroit - 12/94 - 2 WJBK CBS to Fox without Fox Kids - okay nothing great - mostly mediocre syndicated shows
50 WKBD Fox to Indepenent/UPN - kept Fox Kids - station changed minimally - pretty much the same minus Fox - Excellent
62 WGPR - horrible independent to CBS station - fair - lacks local news still today - still viewers gained a viable choice with WWJ TV - Overall a wash

Atlanta - 5 WAGA - CBS to Fox without Fox Kids - fair - lackluster shows - fails to renew stronger shows
46 WGNX ind was to be WB to CBS - good - Tribune affiliated with CBS after some arm twisting.
36 WATL Fox to Ind/WB - good - bascially same schedule keeping Fox Kids and only changing prime time shows
69 WUPA - from infomercial station to UPN independent - CBS bought to put CBS shows there in case they could not get WGNX to affiliate. When CBS affiliated with WGNX, the cartoons from WGNX and sictoms from WGNX moved to TV 69 - good - viewers gained a choice

Tampa - 13 WTVT CBS to Fox and no Fox Kids - fair - lackluster station with mediocre syndciated shows
28 WFTS Fox to ABC - good
38 WTTA picked up syndicated shows from WFTS as well as Fox Kids - okay
Overall a wash

Millwaukee - 6 WITI CBS to Fox with no Fox Kids - mediocre programming - fair
24 WCGV remained an independent and basically took UPN shows and kept Fox Kids - station pretty much stayed the same
58 WDJT - independent to CBS - a weak independent anyway - some shows were now dumped and not on in the market but viewers had 2 other independent stations to watch plus channel 6
overall a wash

Dallas - 7/95 4 KDFW - CBS to Fox no Fox Kids - mediocre shows - fair
11 KTVT indepednent to CBS - Most shows move to 21 KTXA and 27 KDFI - good
21 KTXA UPN - picked up some of KTVT's cartoons and sitcoms - good
27 KDFI - picked up some of KTVT's sitcoms - eventually got Fox Kids in 1997 - good
33 KDAF - Fox to WB - pretty much stayed the same minus Fox programs - good
a wash

St Louis - 2 KTVI - ABC to Fox - mediocre shows - no Fox Kids for a year till 24 KNLC dumps it and KTVI picks it up till Fox Kids folds in 2001 - okay
30 KDNL - Fox to ABC - Horrible - low budget - no newscasts - poorly run ABC station owned by Sinclair
24 KNLC - initially got Fox kids and was looking promising - but dumps it in 1996 - Eventually weakened schedule more - today a badly run Christian Station - poor
Overall poor

Greensboro - 9/95 - 8 WGHP ABC to Fox including Fox Kids for first year - got decent syndicated shows - eventually assigned rights to Fox Kids to Channel 20 then WBFX
45/48 WXLV/WGGT - Fox to ABC - Poor - still no newscast - WGGT did seperate a year later
48 WUPN beacme a UPN independent in 1996 - decent station
20 WBFX - sold as a Christian station in 1995 - became a WB indepdennt station early in 96 and took Fox KIds in the Fall - Good
a wash

Memphis - 9/95 13 WHBQ ABC to Fox including Fox Kids - okay
24 WPTY Fox to ABC - okay
okay

Green Bay - 9/95 11 WLUK NBC to Fox Including Fox Kids - Good
26 WGBA - Fox to NBC - Good
32 WACY got both UPN and WB - good - eventually WB moved to Tv 14
okay

New Orleans - 1/96 8 WVUE ABC to Fox including Fox Kids - Fair - continued to lack news in mornings - eventually though would add more news but took forever
26 WGNO ind/WB to ABC - Good
38 WNOL Fox to WB - good
54 WUPL UPN - good
overall a wash

Mobile - 1/96 10 WALA NBC to Fox including Fox Kids run an hour early - good
15 WPMI Fox to NBC - okay
a wash

Hawaii - 2 KHON NBC to Fox including Fox Kids - good at first - eventually station got run into the ground
13 KHNL Fox to NBC - good
5 KFVE both UPN & WB - good
a wash

Birmingham - 9/96 6 WBRC ABC to Fox excluding Fox Kids - okay - better syndicated shows than New World stations had - owned by Fox outright as well.
21 WTTO - Kept Fox Kids and other syndicated shows - only prime time shows changed - good
eventually got WB
33/40 CBS outer affilaites to ABC with stronger tower to reach Birmingham - Okay - signal not as good as it should be for newtork affiliate - corrected presumably with digital transmissions.
a wash overall due to poor ABC signal

 

[desertv]

KTVK - probably the best success story of any independent in the country. They greatly expanded their local news after losing their network affiliation. The station has largely maintained their news ratings and are generally considered the highest rated independent in the country. They have embraced localism and are reaping the rewards.

Agree with your "localism" adjective but disagree with news ratings. KTVK and KSAZ are essentially both indie news stations as Fox does not have a network news feature (although they do seemingly have a few news "feature" stories from time to time).

I see no significant difference between these two news departments. Both lean towards local stories and both have similar staffs - although KTVK's seems to be more "mobile", at least lately. Both also have very similar news show times.

In any case, there is generally too much "news time" on Phoenix TV these days and not enough coverage of the real important stories. Car crashes, house fires and convenience store robberies are not events which impact or are of significant interest to most of us. They would all be better served to cover in-depth stories of economics, political and legal malfeasance and items which have a direct impact on the majority of local viewers.

Just my .02. YMMV

KTVK has always thought of itself as an "All-Arizona" station, they have the translator system to back it up, the other Phx stations emphasize Phoenix.

Another local success has been KAZT (AZ-TV7) which is the 21st century equivalent of KPHO of the 70s/80s

 

[landtuna]

KTVK has always thought of itself as an "All-Arizona" station, they have the translator system to back it up, the other Phx stations emphasize Phoenix.

They may think of themselves as an "all-state" service but it comes across as just another Phoenix station. I see much more state-related programming on KAET than KTVK.

Another local success has been KAZT (AZ-TV7) which is the 21st century equivalent of KPHO of the 70s/80s

More like KPHO of the 50's. Local hardware store ads and all.