I got the chance to listen to the interview with Ray Nagin of New Orleans over WWL live-in the wee early morning hours Friday. While the coverage on CNN, FOX, etc. over the week has been extensive, they just don't do justice to the scope of the tragedy. I've been in radio for a number of years, and I've never heard more gripping, compelling and graphic coverage of any event on radio or T.V. The coverage via WWL-870 AM could be describe as something above great. And the interview with the Mayor on WWL Friday morning took the cake. They played the interview in it's entirity, with no editing. Nagin cursed state and especially federal officials for a slower than desired response to the disaster. Nagin said his (the city's) resources were completely depleted. Half of the police force was gone, the police cars were out of gas, they had limited fire fighting capability. Anarchy rules. Near the end of the interview, Nagin broke down. You could hear heavy breathing in the background, and a few faint weeps. This near silence lasted for almost a minute. The WWL interviewer did not interrupt, keeping the channel open. Some people today have been wanting to chunk rocks at the Mayor. I disagree. This man's back, along with those of his people, were COMPLETELY AGAINST THE WALL. What do people think he should have said? If he had said over the airwaves of WWL that everything was going to be o.k., to stay the course, and that help was on the way - That's not what they would have wanted to hear - The help wasn't there - If anybody in the stranded area could have heard that - I think that there would have been massive rioting in the streets. Instead, talking to his people, he expressed their frustration with the diplorable conditions, and may have calmed things a little for the moment. Go Mayor Nagin and hats off to WWL for this exclusvie and for their outstanding coverage all week long.
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N.O. Mayor Nagin interview-WWL
- Thread starter wpiv926
- Start date
A
ARRadioChick
Guest
I agree...it was about time someone got angry. I thought more highly of him for his honestly and how he allowed his true anger to show. Sure, some might call him unprofessional but for once we got to see the real man behind the politican. He raise some very relevant points.
I spent the day in Southern Arkansas today. I ended up in the middle of a caravan of ambulances and private boats being hauled to LA. Hats off to everyone for being there for those in need.
I have to wonder why more radio stations aren't involved in raising funds for the victims. Of course, this goes back to community radio and being involved with your community.
> I got the chance to listen to the interview with Ray Nagin
> of New Orleans over WWL live-in the wee early morning hours
> Friday. While the coverage on CNN, FOX, etc. over the week
> has been extensive, they just don't do justice to the scope
> of the tragedy. I've been in radio for a number of years,
> and I've never heard more gripping, compelling and graphic
> coverage of any event on radio or T.V. The coverage via
> WWL-870 AM could be describe as something above great. And
> the interview with the Mayor on WWL Friday morning took the
> cake. They played the interview in it's entirity, with no
> editing. Nagin cursed state and especially federal
> officials for a slower than desired response to the
> disaster. Nagin said his (the city's) resources were
> completely depleted. Half of the police force was gone, the
> police cars were out of gas, they had limited fire fighting
> capability. Anarchy rules. Near the end of the interview,
> Nagin broke down. You could hear heavy breathing in the
> background, and a few faint weeps. This near silence lasted
> for almost a minute. The WWL interviewer did not interrupt,
> keeping the channel open. Some people today have been
> wanting to chunk rocks at the Mayor. I disagree. This
> man's back, along with those of his people, were COMPLETELY
> AGAINST THE WALL. What do people think he should have said?
> If he had said over the airwaves of WWL that everything was
> going to be o.k., to stay the course, and that help was on
> the way - That's not what they would have wanted to hear -
> The help wasn't there - If anybody in the stranded area
> could have heard that - I think that there would have been
> massive rioting in the streets. Instead, talking to his
> people, he expressed their frustration with the diplorable
> conditions, and may have calmed things a little for the
> moment. Go Mayor Nagin and hats off to WWL for this
> exclusvie and for their outstanding coverage all week long.
>
I spent the day in Southern Arkansas today. I ended up in the middle of a caravan of ambulances and private boats being hauled to LA. Hats off to everyone for being there for those in need.
I have to wonder why more radio stations aren't involved in raising funds for the victims. Of course, this goes back to community radio and being involved with your community.
> I got the chance to listen to the interview with Ray Nagin
> of New Orleans over WWL live-in the wee early morning hours
> Friday. While the coverage on CNN, FOX, etc. over the week
> has been extensive, they just don't do justice to the scope
> of the tragedy. I've been in radio for a number of years,
> and I've never heard more gripping, compelling and graphic
> coverage of any event on radio or T.V. The coverage via
> WWL-870 AM could be describe as something above great. And
> the interview with the Mayor on WWL Friday morning took the
> cake. They played the interview in it's entirity, with no
> editing. Nagin cursed state and especially federal
> officials for a slower than desired response to the
> disaster. Nagin said his (the city's) resources were
> completely depleted. Half of the police force was gone, the
> police cars were out of gas, they had limited fire fighting
> capability. Anarchy rules. Near the end of the interview,
> Nagin broke down. You could hear heavy breathing in the
> background, and a few faint weeps. This near silence lasted
> for almost a minute. The WWL interviewer did not interrupt,
> keeping the channel open. Some people today have been
> wanting to chunk rocks at the Mayor. I disagree. This
> man's back, along with those of his people, were COMPLETELY
> AGAINST THE WALL. What do people think he should have said?
> If he had said over the airwaves of WWL that everything was
> going to be o.k., to stay the course, and that help was on
> the way - That's not what they would have wanted to hear -
> The help wasn't there - If anybody in the stranded area
> could have heard that - I think that there would have been
> massive rioting in the streets. Instead, talking to his
> people, he expressed their frustration with the diplorable
> conditions, and may have calmed things a little for the
> moment. Go Mayor Nagin and hats off to WWL for this
> exclusvie and for their outstanding coverage all week long.
>
Before I go on this rant, I want it to be noted that I in no way want to discount the tragedy and horrible loss of human life and property on the Gulf Coast. I understand first hand from my own life experiences the desperation and suffering that goes with a natural disaster.
I, however, disagree... it's about time that someone stood up and took some responsiblity and quit pointing their fingers at everyone else. Local government is the first line of response, and that is where the failures began. Having lived through, or been involved in several natural disasters in the past, I can tell you that LOCAL response is the short term, with state and federal coming in for the long term.
People were warned for days that this thing was coming. The federal government provides NOAA, which has the National Hurricane Center and the National Weather service. We have sattelites, RADAR, planes, ships and other detection and forecast implements... all provided by the government. Broadcast media is licensed with a condition of PUBLIC SERVICE to disseminate this kind of information. What more can the federal government do? If they had come before the storm with military helicopters and forced people to leave their homes, the outcry would have been unreal! "How dare you force someone to leave their home"... yet now they act like George W. Bush himself should have been there holding each person's hand guiding them individually to safety.
Was the Federal response sufficient and timely? No... but with this scale disaster, how could it have been? Days before Katrina hit land the resources began to move. One person this week said it quite well.. "turning around federal resources is like turning around the titanic. It doesn't happen quickly"
But really, New Orleans should have been more prepared. They didn't learn of this tragedy just a few days ago... they learned of this many years ago. It has been known fact for decades that if NOLA took a direct hit from a big hurricane that this would happen. They may not have had a date circled on a calendar, but no one can deny that this was predictable.
Again, I don't want to be insensitive, rather I want people to snap out of it and start taking some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! Having an evacuation plan for the poor and handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there starting on Friday or Saturday.
If I walk out in the street and stand in front of a fast moving 18-wheeler it's not the truck driver's fault, much less the contractor who built the road!
We have become a nation of finger pointers. No one wants to stand up and take responsibilty for their own actions or incompetence. I for one am sick and tired of hearing the talking heads on both sides screaming at one another over things that are clearly their own fault, or even worse neither side's fault!
I could go on a totally different rant inside of this rant about how it all starts because parents won't tell their children that they are not always right and teachers have stopped telling children that they failed at something, but I digress.
When will people learn that failure is a part of growth? If we would use this opportunity to learn from what went wrong on all levels, next time it might not be so bad.
I, however, disagree... it's about time that someone stood up and took some responsiblity and quit pointing their fingers at everyone else. Local government is the first line of response, and that is where the failures began. Having lived through, or been involved in several natural disasters in the past, I can tell you that LOCAL response is the short term, with state and federal coming in for the long term.
People were warned for days that this thing was coming. The federal government provides NOAA, which has the National Hurricane Center and the National Weather service. We have sattelites, RADAR, planes, ships and other detection and forecast implements... all provided by the government. Broadcast media is licensed with a condition of PUBLIC SERVICE to disseminate this kind of information. What more can the federal government do? If they had come before the storm with military helicopters and forced people to leave their homes, the outcry would have been unreal! "How dare you force someone to leave their home"... yet now they act like George W. Bush himself should have been there holding each person's hand guiding them individually to safety.
Was the Federal response sufficient and timely? No... but with this scale disaster, how could it have been? Days before Katrina hit land the resources began to move. One person this week said it quite well.. "turning around federal resources is like turning around the titanic. It doesn't happen quickly"
But really, New Orleans should have been more prepared. They didn't learn of this tragedy just a few days ago... they learned of this many years ago. It has been known fact for decades that if NOLA took a direct hit from a big hurricane that this would happen. They may not have had a date circled on a calendar, but no one can deny that this was predictable.
Again, I don't want to be insensitive, rather I want people to snap out of it and start taking some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! Having an evacuation plan for the poor and handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there starting on Friday or Saturday.
If I walk out in the street and stand in front of a fast moving 18-wheeler it's not the truck driver's fault, much less the contractor who built the road!
We have become a nation of finger pointers. No one wants to stand up and take responsibilty for their own actions or incompetence. I for one am sick and tired of hearing the talking heads on both sides screaming at one another over things that are clearly their own fault, or even worse neither side's fault!
I could go on a totally different rant inside of this rant about how it all starts because parents won't tell their children that they are not always right and teachers have stopped telling children that they failed at something, but I digress.
When will people learn that failure is a part of growth? If we would use this opportunity to learn from what went wrong on all levels, next time it might not be so bad.
No point continuing this...
Everyone I know who is a Democrat agrees with Mayor Nagin that it was ridiculous that the news media could get into New Orleans and Biloxi, but the federal goverment couldn't find a way to deliver help or rescue survivors...
Everyone I know who is a Republican agrees with Bush and Chertoff that it's a huge disaster and they are doing the best they can and it's all Nagin's fault. Any day now, we'll be sittin' with the President on Trent Lott's new porch.
So, like every other issue, there is no middle ground and no useful debate. "I'm right and you're wrong" is the chant from both sides.
So no need to continue this thread, as we know where it's going.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Before I go on this rant, I want it to be noted that I in no
> way want to discount the tragedy and horrible loss of human
> life and property on the Gulf Coast. I understand first
> hand from my own life experiences the desperation and
> suffering that goes with a natural disaster.
>
> I, however, disagree... it's about time that someone stood
> up and took some responsiblity and quit pointing their
> fingers at everyone else. Local government is the first
> line of response, and that is where the failures began.
> Having lived through, or been involved in several natural
> disasters in the past, I can tell you that LOCAL response is
> the short term, with state and federal coming in for the
> long term.
>
> People were warned for days that this thing was coming. The
> federal government provides NOAA, which has the National
> Hurricane Center and the National Weather service. We have
> sattelites, RADAR, planes, ships and other detection and
> forecast implements... all provided by the government.
> Broadcast media is licensed with a condition of PUBLIC
> SERVICE to disseminate this kind of information. What more
> can the federal government do? If they had come before the
> storm with military helicopters and forced people to leave
> their homes, the outcry would have been unreal! "How dare
> you force someone to leave their home"... yet now they act
> like George W. Bush himself should have been there holding
> each person's hand guiding them individually to safety.
>
> Was the Federal response sufficient and timely? No... but
> with this scale disaster, how could it have been? Days
> before Katrina hit land the resources began to move. One
> person this week said it quite well.. "turning around
> federal resources is like turning around the titanic. It
> doesn't happen quickly"
>
> But really, New Orleans should have been more prepared.
> They didn't learn of this tragedy just a few days ago...
> they learned of this many years ago. It has been known fact
> for decades that if NOLA took a direct hit from a big
> hurricane that this would happen. They may not have had a
> date circled on a calendar, but no one can deny that this
> was predictable.
>
> Again, I don't want to be insensitive, rather I want people
> to snap out of it and start taking some PERSONAL
> RESPONSIBILITY! Having an evacuation plan for the poor and
> handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should
> be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now
> all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax
> dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there
> starting on Friday or Saturday.
>
> If I walk out in the street and stand in front of a fast
> moving 18-wheeler it's not the truck driver's fault, much
> less the contractor who built the road!
>
> We have become a nation of finger pointers. No one wants to
> stand up and take responsibilty for their own actions or
> incompetence. I for one am sick and tired of hearing the
> talking heads on both sides screaming at one another over
> things that are clearly their own fault, or even worse
> neither side's fault!
>
> I could go on a totally different rant inside of this rant
> about how it all starts because parents won't tell their
> children that they are not always right and teachers have
> stopped telling children that they failed at something, but
> I digress.
>
> When will people learn that failure is a part of growth? If
> we would use this opportunity to learn from what went wrong
> on all levels, next time it might not be so bad.
>
Everyone I know who is a Democrat agrees with Mayor Nagin that it was ridiculous that the news media could get into New Orleans and Biloxi, but the federal goverment couldn't find a way to deliver help or rescue survivors...
Everyone I know who is a Republican agrees with Bush and Chertoff that it's a huge disaster and they are doing the best they can and it's all Nagin's fault. Any day now, we'll be sittin' with the President on Trent Lott's new porch.
So, like every other issue, there is no middle ground and no useful debate. "I'm right and you're wrong" is the chant from both sides.
So no need to continue this thread, as we know where it's going.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Before I go on this rant, I want it to be noted that I in no
> way want to discount the tragedy and horrible loss of human
> life and property on the Gulf Coast. I understand first
> hand from my own life experiences the desperation and
> suffering that goes with a natural disaster.
>
> I, however, disagree... it's about time that someone stood
> up and took some responsiblity and quit pointing their
> fingers at everyone else. Local government is the first
> line of response, and that is where the failures began.
> Having lived through, or been involved in several natural
> disasters in the past, I can tell you that LOCAL response is
> the short term, with state and federal coming in for the
> long term.
>
> People were warned for days that this thing was coming. The
> federal government provides NOAA, which has the National
> Hurricane Center and the National Weather service. We have
> sattelites, RADAR, planes, ships and other detection and
> forecast implements... all provided by the government.
> Broadcast media is licensed with a condition of PUBLIC
> SERVICE to disseminate this kind of information. What more
> can the federal government do? If they had come before the
> storm with military helicopters and forced people to leave
> their homes, the outcry would have been unreal! "How dare
> you force someone to leave their home"... yet now they act
> like George W. Bush himself should have been there holding
> each person's hand guiding them individually to safety.
>
> Was the Federal response sufficient and timely? No... but
> with this scale disaster, how could it have been? Days
> before Katrina hit land the resources began to move. One
> person this week said it quite well.. "turning around
> federal resources is like turning around the titanic. It
> doesn't happen quickly"
>
> But really, New Orleans should have been more prepared.
> They didn't learn of this tragedy just a few days ago...
> they learned of this many years ago. It has been known fact
> for decades that if NOLA took a direct hit from a big
> hurricane that this would happen. They may not have had a
> date circled on a calendar, but no one can deny that this
> was predictable.
>
> Again, I don't want to be insensitive, rather I want people
> to snap out of it and start taking some PERSONAL
> RESPONSIBILITY! Having an evacuation plan for the poor and
> handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should
> be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now
> all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax
> dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there
> starting on Friday or Saturday.
>
> If I walk out in the street and stand in front of a fast
> moving 18-wheeler it's not the truck driver's fault, much
> less the contractor who built the road!
>
> We have become a nation of finger pointers. No one wants to
> stand up and take responsibilty for their own actions or
> incompetence. I for one am sick and tired of hearing the
> talking heads on both sides screaming at one another over
> things that are clearly their own fault, or even worse
> neither side's fault!
>
> I could go on a totally different rant inside of this rant
> about how it all starts because parents won't tell their
> children that they are not always right and teachers have
> stopped telling children that they failed at something, but
> I digress.
>
> When will people learn that failure is a part of growth? If
> we would use this opportunity to learn from what went wrong
> on all levels, next time it might not be so bad.
>
I can't believe I'm actually pulling out my soapbox and preparing to mount, but as a former resident of Gulfport, and someone who's still trying to find family up there, I have a vested interest here.
It is absolutely correct that local response is critical is a situation such as this, and in my opinion, not only did the local politicos fail, but they should be brought to task for their actions, or lack of. When the order to evacuate was given, no one stopped to think about the people who don't have a couple of SUVs parked in the garage and a summer home to go to. No one gave a moment's concern to the folks who did not have the resources to get out. And the bright light who came up with the idea of using the Superdome as a "shelter of last resort" should be tied to a buoy in the Gulf somewhere south of Ship Island and left to weather the next storm out there.
But while local government is the first line of response, it is only a bridge until the larger federal response kicks in. As late as three days after the storm, the only aid that had reached the Gulf Coast came from the great people at the Salvation Army. As stated earlier, we knew of this storm well in advance, and we had a pretty good idea where it was going to hit. FEMA, which by the way is the federal agency responsible for disaster relief, should have had staging areas in place outside of the danger area well before landfall, ready to move in quickly once the storm passed. Instead, the head of FEMA himself openly admitted that he was clueless about conditions along the Gulf Coast days after the storm. Am I missing something here? Isn't FEMA the agency charged with dealing with disasters such as Katrina? Isn't that why FEMA exists? There is no excuse for this, and it should cost this gentleman his job.
Could federal response have been better? You bet, and it has been before. I was a young teenager in Gulfport during Camille, and before the winds had even completely died, federal troops who had been staged in shelters at Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi were everywhere, aiding law enforcement, distributing food and water and providing emergency medical care. Seebees from the Gulfport base were out with heavy equipment beginning the cleanup on landfall plus one. And things only got better from there. Compare that with George W. Bush's response, which seems to be "Hey, we had a great photo-op where I hugged a couple of black kids, so what else do you want?". Maybe if Terri Schiavo were still alive and in a Gulfport nursing home, the entire United States Congress and the President would have been there moments after the storm, screaming "save one life".
All in all, we shouldn't be surprised by our federal government's failure in this situation. We saw Act 1 of this play in 1992, right where I am now, with a hurricane named Andrew. South Dade County was absolutely destroyed, and the federal response was nowhere to be seen until almost a week after the storm, and then only because it was an election year and candidate Bill Clinton had toured the area, blasting the current president for his failure to address the problem. Strangely enough, the president at that time was George Herbert Walker Bush. Hmmm...I guess the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree.
Before I get even more long-winded and get my blood pressure up to new levels, a few notes on "personal responsibility"....
As of this writing, there is no drinkable water on the Gulf Coast. Does personal responsibility say the people there should stop whining and just use their bare hands to dig wells?
Power is still out to the vast majority of the Coast. I guess those folks should get together and use the debris from their homes to scratch-build a power plant and get some of the smaller kids up on the poles to re-hang the lines.
Food storage and distribution facilities were destroyed and food in homes was, for the most part, ruined. Does that mean the residents should return to their "hunter-gatherer" roots and just forage? At least when Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake", they actually had some cake.
The main highways into the Coast, I-10 and Highway 90 are blocked by debris and the Highway 90 bridge over Biloxi Bay was destroyed. I guess that's the resident's problem for not grabbing their wheel barrows to clear the highways. And can you believe they're whining about having to swim across the bay?
Yes, failure is a part of growth. With that in mind, why didn't we grow after Hurricane Andrew? Why didn't we grow after Charlie and Ivan in 2004? Why didn't we grow after Francis, when FEMA paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in claims to people who had no hurricane damage, while turning down legitimate claims? How many times do we condone our government's failures, how many times do we apologize for them before we stand up and hold the responsible parties and agencies responsible? That's not "finger pointing", that's called accountability.
Instead of looking at the victims of Hurricane Katrina with scorn because they won't "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", we should be looking at them and saying "There, but for the grace of God go I". As someone who lives in a hurricane zone, I think about this every day.
Sorry folks...but this whole attitude of "I've got mine and these victims should just shut up and go get theirs" makes me want to puke.
> Before I go on this rant, I want it to be noted that I in no
> way want to discount the tragedy and horrible loss of human
> life and property on the Gulf Coast. I understand first
> hand from my own life experiences the desperation and
> suffering that goes with a natural disaster.
>
> I, however, disagree... it's about time that someone stood
> up and took some responsiblity and quit pointing their
> fingers at everyone else. Local government is the first
> line of response, and that is where the failures began.
> Having lived through, or been involved in several natural
> disasters in the past, I can tell you that LOCAL response is
> the short term, with state and federal coming in for the
> long term.
>
> People were warned for days that this thing was coming. The
> federal government provides NOAA, which has the National
> Hurricane Center and the National Weather service. We have
> sattelites, RADAR, planes, ships and other detection and
> forecast implements... all provided by the government.
> Broadcast media is licensed with a condition of PUBLIC
> SERVICE to disseminate this kind of information. What more
> can the federal government do? If they had come before the
> storm with military helicopters and forced people to leave
> their homes, the outcry would have been unreal! "How dare
> you force someone to leave their home"... yet now they act
> like George W. Bush himself should have been there holding
> each person's hand guiding them individually to safety.
>
> Was the Federal response sufficient and timely? No... but
> with this scale disaster, how could it have been? Days
> before Katrina hit land the resources began to move. One
> person this week said it quite well.. "turning around
> federal resources is like turning around the titanic. It
> doesn't happen quickly"
>
> But really, New Orleans should have been more prepared.
> They didn't learn of this tragedy just a few days ago...
> they learned of this many years ago. It has been known fact
> for decades that if NOLA took a direct hit from a big
> hurricane that this would happen. They may not have had a
> date circled on a calendar, but no one can deny that this
> was predictable.
>
> Again, I don't want to be insensitive, rather I want people
> to snap out of it and start taking some PERSONAL
> RESPONSIBILITY! Having an evacuation plan for the poor and
> handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should
> be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now
> all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax
> dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there
> starting on Friday or Saturday.
>
> If I walk out in the street and stand in front of a fast
> moving 18-wheeler it's not the truck driver's fault, much
> less the contractor who built the road!
>
> We have become a nation of finger pointers. No one wants to
> stand up and take responsibilty for their own actions or
> incompetence. I for one am sick and tired of hearing the
> talking heads on both sides screaming at one another over
> things that are clearly their own fault, or even worse
> neither side's fault!
>
> I could go on a totally different rant inside of this rant
> about how it all starts because parents won't tell their
> children that they are not always right and teachers have
> stopped telling children that they failed at something, but
> I digress.
>
> When will people learn that failure is a part of growth? If
> we would use this opportunity to learn from what went wrong
> on all levels, next time it might not be so bad.
>
It is absolutely correct that local response is critical is a situation such as this, and in my opinion, not only did the local politicos fail, but they should be brought to task for their actions, or lack of. When the order to evacuate was given, no one stopped to think about the people who don't have a couple of SUVs parked in the garage and a summer home to go to. No one gave a moment's concern to the folks who did not have the resources to get out. And the bright light who came up with the idea of using the Superdome as a "shelter of last resort" should be tied to a buoy in the Gulf somewhere south of Ship Island and left to weather the next storm out there.
But while local government is the first line of response, it is only a bridge until the larger federal response kicks in. As late as three days after the storm, the only aid that had reached the Gulf Coast came from the great people at the Salvation Army. As stated earlier, we knew of this storm well in advance, and we had a pretty good idea where it was going to hit. FEMA, which by the way is the federal agency responsible for disaster relief, should have had staging areas in place outside of the danger area well before landfall, ready to move in quickly once the storm passed. Instead, the head of FEMA himself openly admitted that he was clueless about conditions along the Gulf Coast days after the storm. Am I missing something here? Isn't FEMA the agency charged with dealing with disasters such as Katrina? Isn't that why FEMA exists? There is no excuse for this, and it should cost this gentleman his job.
Could federal response have been better? You bet, and it has been before. I was a young teenager in Gulfport during Camille, and before the winds had even completely died, federal troops who had been staged in shelters at Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi were everywhere, aiding law enforcement, distributing food and water and providing emergency medical care. Seebees from the Gulfport base were out with heavy equipment beginning the cleanup on landfall plus one. And things only got better from there. Compare that with George W. Bush's response, which seems to be "Hey, we had a great photo-op where I hugged a couple of black kids, so what else do you want?". Maybe if Terri Schiavo were still alive and in a Gulfport nursing home, the entire United States Congress and the President would have been there moments after the storm, screaming "save one life".
All in all, we shouldn't be surprised by our federal government's failure in this situation. We saw Act 1 of this play in 1992, right where I am now, with a hurricane named Andrew. South Dade County was absolutely destroyed, and the federal response was nowhere to be seen until almost a week after the storm, and then only because it was an election year and candidate Bill Clinton had toured the area, blasting the current president for his failure to address the problem. Strangely enough, the president at that time was George Herbert Walker Bush. Hmmm...I guess the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree.
Before I get even more long-winded and get my blood pressure up to new levels, a few notes on "personal responsibility"....
As of this writing, there is no drinkable water on the Gulf Coast. Does personal responsibility say the people there should stop whining and just use their bare hands to dig wells?
Power is still out to the vast majority of the Coast. I guess those folks should get together and use the debris from their homes to scratch-build a power plant and get some of the smaller kids up on the poles to re-hang the lines.
Food storage and distribution facilities were destroyed and food in homes was, for the most part, ruined. Does that mean the residents should return to their "hunter-gatherer" roots and just forage? At least when Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake", they actually had some cake.
The main highways into the Coast, I-10 and Highway 90 are blocked by debris and the Highway 90 bridge over Biloxi Bay was destroyed. I guess that's the resident's problem for not grabbing their wheel barrows to clear the highways. And can you believe they're whining about having to swim across the bay?
Yes, failure is a part of growth. With that in mind, why didn't we grow after Hurricane Andrew? Why didn't we grow after Charlie and Ivan in 2004? Why didn't we grow after Francis, when FEMA paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in claims to people who had no hurricane damage, while turning down legitimate claims? How many times do we condone our government's failures, how many times do we apologize for them before we stand up and hold the responsible parties and agencies responsible? That's not "finger pointing", that's called accountability.
Instead of looking at the victims of Hurricane Katrina with scorn because they won't "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", we should be looking at them and saying "There, but for the grace of God go I". As someone who lives in a hurricane zone, I think about this every day.
Sorry folks...but this whole attitude of "I've got mine and these victims should just shut up and go get theirs" makes me want to puke.
> Before I go on this rant, I want it to be noted that I in no
> way want to discount the tragedy and horrible loss of human
> life and property on the Gulf Coast. I understand first
> hand from my own life experiences the desperation and
> suffering that goes with a natural disaster.
>
> I, however, disagree... it's about time that someone stood
> up and took some responsiblity and quit pointing their
> fingers at everyone else. Local government is the first
> line of response, and that is where the failures began.
> Having lived through, or been involved in several natural
> disasters in the past, I can tell you that LOCAL response is
> the short term, with state and federal coming in for the
> long term.
>
> People were warned for days that this thing was coming. The
> federal government provides NOAA, which has the National
> Hurricane Center and the National Weather service. We have
> sattelites, RADAR, planes, ships and other detection and
> forecast implements... all provided by the government.
> Broadcast media is licensed with a condition of PUBLIC
> SERVICE to disseminate this kind of information. What more
> can the federal government do? If they had come before the
> storm with military helicopters and forced people to leave
> their homes, the outcry would have been unreal! "How dare
> you force someone to leave their home"... yet now they act
> like George W. Bush himself should have been there holding
> each person's hand guiding them individually to safety.
>
> Was the Federal response sufficient and timely? No... but
> with this scale disaster, how could it have been? Days
> before Katrina hit land the resources began to move. One
> person this week said it quite well.. "turning around
> federal resources is like turning around the titanic. It
> doesn't happen quickly"
>
> But really, New Orleans should have been more prepared.
> They didn't learn of this tragedy just a few days ago...
> they learned of this many years ago. It has been known fact
> for decades that if NOLA took a direct hit from a big
> hurricane that this would happen. They may not have had a
> date circled on a calendar, but no one can deny that this
> was predictable.
>
> Again, I don't want to be insensitive, rather I want people
> to snap out of it and start taking some PERSONAL
> RESPONSIBILITY! Having an evacuation plan for the poor and
> handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should
> be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now
> all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax
> dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there
> starting on Friday or Saturday.
>
> If I walk out in the street and stand in front of a fast
> moving 18-wheeler it's not the truck driver's fault, much
> less the contractor who built the road!
>
> We have become a nation of finger pointers. No one wants to
> stand up and take responsibilty for their own actions or
> incompetence. I for one am sick and tired of hearing the
> talking heads on both sides screaming at one another over
> things that are clearly their own fault, or even worse
> neither side's fault!
>
> I could go on a totally different rant inside of this rant
> about how it all starts because parents won't tell their
> children that they are not always right and teachers have
> stopped telling children that they failed at something, but
> I digress.
>
> When will people learn that failure is a part of growth? If
> we would use this opportunity to learn from what went wrong
> on all levels, next time it might not be so bad.
>
> Sorry folks...but this whole attitude of "I've got mine and
> these victims should just shut up and go get theirs" makes
> me want to puke.
>
Then you obviously missed the point of my rant. I was not talking about victims, I was talking about THE MAYOR!!! THE LEADERS WHO DIDN'T PREPARE!! Did I not offer a solution for that? I believe it went something like this:
> Having an evacuation plan for the poor and
> handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should
> be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now
> all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax
> dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there
> starting on Friday or Saturday.
Yep.. .that's what I said.
Now, since obviously you feel the need to Bush-Bash, I think it is important to note that federal assistance almost always comes after several days (again, from personal experience). Those troops you remember were most likely national guard from your local battalion. Also remember that we are not just dealing with a Hurricane here, we're dealing with a flood. That is two disasters in one. I agree the response was not adequate, but that includes the response from the RESDIENTS WHO DIDN'T EVACUATE! No, they don't all have SUV's out front with $300 worth of gasoline in them, but neither do I! I think that if someone told them a nuclear bomb was going to go off in their city in 3 days and there was no way they could disarm it, those people would find a way out!
> these victims should just shut up and go get theirs" makes
> me want to puke.
>
Then you obviously missed the point of my rant. I was not talking about victims, I was talking about THE MAYOR!!! THE LEADERS WHO DIDN'T PREPARE!! Did I not offer a solution for that? I believe it went something like this:
> Having an evacuation plan for the poor and
> handicapped of a city with the circumstances of NOLA should
> be a given. There should have been hundreds of busses (now
> all sitting underwater, ruined.. another thing my tax
> dollars will have to pay for) bringing people out of there
> starting on Friday or Saturday.
Yep.. .that's what I said.
Now, since obviously you feel the need to Bush-Bash, I think it is important to note that federal assistance almost always comes after several days (again, from personal experience). Those troops you remember were most likely national guard from your local battalion. Also remember that we are not just dealing with a Hurricane here, we're dealing with a flood. That is two disasters in one. I agree the response was not adequate, but that includes the response from the RESDIENTS WHO DIDN'T EVACUATE! No, they don't all have SUV's out front with $300 worth of gasoline in them, but neither do I! I think that if someone told them a nuclear bomb was going to go off in their city in 3 days and there was no way they could disarm it, those people would find a way out!
Re: No point continuing this...
I think quite possibly no one actually read my post... I SAID THE RESPONSE WAS NOT ADEQUATE AND FINGER POINTING SHOULD STOP!!!!!! GEEZ!
It's so telling how everyone gets all up in arms when someone suggests that perhaps we should take responsibility for our actions.
I hope you all have fun in your consequence free utopia.
I'll be living out here in the real world.
> Everyone I know who is a Democrat agrees with Mayor Nagin
> that it was ridiculous that the news media could get into
> New Orleans and Biloxi, but the federal goverment couldn't
> find a way to deliver help or rescue survivors...
>
> Everyone I know who is a Republican agrees with Bush and
> Chertoff that it's a huge disaster and they are doing the
> best they can and it's all Nagin's fault. Any day now, we'll
> be sittin' with the President on Trent Lott's new porch.
>
> So, like every other issue, there is no middle ground and no
> useful debate. "I'm right and you're wrong" is the chant
> from both sides.
>
> So no need to continue this thread, as we know where it's
> going.
>
I think quite possibly no one actually read my post... I SAID THE RESPONSE WAS NOT ADEQUATE AND FINGER POINTING SHOULD STOP!!!!!! GEEZ!
It's so telling how everyone gets all up in arms when someone suggests that perhaps we should take responsibility for our actions.
I hope you all have fun in your consequence free utopia.
I'll be living out here in the real world.
> Everyone I know who is a Democrat agrees with Mayor Nagin
> that it was ridiculous that the news media could get into
> New Orleans and Biloxi, but the federal goverment couldn't
> find a way to deliver help or rescue survivors...
>
> Everyone I know who is a Republican agrees with Bush and
> Chertoff that it's a huge disaster and they are doing the
> best they can and it's all Nagin's fault. Any day now, we'll
> be sittin' with the President on Trent Lott's new porch.
>
> So, like every other issue, there is no middle ground and no
> useful debate. "I'm right and you're wrong" is the chant
> from both sides.
>
> So no need to continue this thread, as we know where it's
> going.
>
Jeez...here we go again...
> Now, since obviously you feel the need to Bush-Bash,
Obviously, you missed my point. I don't care who the President is, I don't care who the director of FEMA is, or the Governor of Mississippi is, or whoever else...they all blew it, and we, as Americans, should not be making excuses for them, but demanding that they take steps to make sure this never happens again.
>I think it is important to note that federal assistance almost always comes after several days (again, from personal experience).
My point exactly...that needs to change.
>Those troops you remember were most likely national guard from your local battalion.
Please don't tell me what I remember. I think it's safe to say I know the events of my own life better than you do. You see, I was there, and you weren't.
I do wish to thank you for underscoring my point of what's really wrong in this situation. Now, I'm dropping this discussion, because I'm reminded of one of my grandmother's favorite sayings, namely: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
> Now, since obviously you feel the need to Bush-Bash,
Obviously, you missed my point. I don't care who the President is, I don't care who the director of FEMA is, or the Governor of Mississippi is, or whoever else...they all blew it, and we, as Americans, should not be making excuses for them, but demanding that they take steps to make sure this never happens again.
>I think it is important to note that federal assistance almost always comes after several days (again, from personal experience).
My point exactly...that needs to change.
>Those troops you remember were most likely national guard from your local battalion.
Please don't tell me what I remember. I think it's safe to say I know the events of my own life better than you do. You see, I was there, and you weren't.
I do wish to thank you for underscoring my point of what's really wrong in this situation. Now, I'm dropping this discussion, because I'm reminded of one of my grandmother's favorite sayings, namely: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
"Never try to teach a pig to
> sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
>
I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this.... THAT'S FUNNY!
It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal attacks.
Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree to disagree.
> sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
>
I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this.... THAT'S FUNNY!
It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal attacks.
Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree to disagree.
> "Never try to teach a pig to
> > sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
> >
> I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this....
> THAT'S FUNNY!
>
> It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal
> attacks.
> Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree to
> disagree.
>
My best friend went Republican during the election of 2000, and he uses that patronizing "we'll just agree to disagree" line. You guys live in a world of "Bush is always right" and work backwards from there to justify everything he does. If he got up on stage and unzipped his pants and whizzed on everyone in the front row, you guys would come up with a way to defend that too...
And like "inthebag" I lived in Gulfport 8 years and my ex-wife and son lost everything they own (EVERYTHING THEY OWN) as in "their house no longer exists" so I have an interest in this too, and think Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco, and Haley Barbour have handled the crisis as well as they could with what they had. The federal government should be ashamed for failing to be there when they were needed.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by kevinkelly on 09/08/05 04:27 AM.</FONT></P>
> > sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
> >
> I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this....
> THAT'S FUNNY!
>
> It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal
> attacks.
> Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree to
> disagree.
>
My best friend went Republican during the election of 2000, and he uses that patronizing "we'll just agree to disagree" line. You guys live in a world of "Bush is always right" and work backwards from there to justify everything he does. If he got up on stage and unzipped his pants and whizzed on everyone in the front row, you guys would come up with a way to defend that too...
And like "inthebag" I lived in Gulfport 8 years and my ex-wife and son lost everything they own (EVERYTHING THEY OWN) as in "their house no longer exists" so I have an interest in this too, and think Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco, and Haley Barbour have handled the crisis as well as they could with what they had. The federal government should be ashamed for failing to be there when they were needed.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by kevinkelly on 09/08/05 04:27 AM.</FONT></P>
Re: No point continuing this...
> Everyone I know who is a Democrat agrees with Mayor Nagin
> that it was ridiculous that the news media could get into
> New Orleans and Biloxi, but the federal goverment couldn't
> find a way to deliver help or rescue survivors...
>
> Everyone I know who is a Republican agrees with Bush and
> Chertoff that it's a huge disaster and they are doing the
> best they can and it's all Nagin's fault. Any day now, we'll
> be sittin' with the President on Trent Lott's new porch.
>
> So, like every other issue, there is no middle ground and no
> useful debate. "I'm right and you're wrong" is the chant
> from both sides.
>
> So no need to continue this thread, as we know where it's
> going.
Really? I'm quite Republican, thank you, and I've been a disaster repsonder for 20 years...I think it was a local, state and federal screw up of major proportions....and FEMA should take a lot of the heat.
I also think Bush should explain why he appointed someone to head up FEMA who had no disaster management experience at all.
The mayor and governor blew it before the storm, FEMA blew it after. <P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
> Everyone I know who is a Democrat agrees with Mayor Nagin
> that it was ridiculous that the news media could get into
> New Orleans and Biloxi, but the federal goverment couldn't
> find a way to deliver help or rescue survivors...
>
> Everyone I know who is a Republican agrees with Bush and
> Chertoff that it's a huge disaster and they are doing the
> best they can and it's all Nagin's fault. Any day now, we'll
> be sittin' with the President on Trent Lott's new porch.
>
> So, like every other issue, there is no middle ground and no
> useful debate. "I'm right and you're wrong" is the chant
> from both sides.
>
> So no need to continue this thread, as we know where it's
> going.
Really? I'm quite Republican, thank you, and I've been a disaster repsonder for 20 years...I think it was a local, state and federal screw up of major proportions....and FEMA should take a lot of the heat.
I also think Bush should explain why he appointed someone to head up FEMA who had no disaster management experience at all.
The mayor and governor blew it before the storm, FEMA blew it after. <P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
I really shouldn't do this, but I can't resist throwing one more log on the fire.
The only other Category 5 storm to hit the Gulf Coast, Hurricane Camille, made landfall at almost exactly the same spot on August 18th, 1969.
On August 19th (the very next day), the following happened*:
The President of the United States ordered 1,500 troops from the Third Army into the area to support and assist local officials in any way possible.
The President ordered in 800 members of the US Army Corps Of Engineers and 600 members of the US Navy Construction Battalion (the Seabees, along with tons of heavy construction equipment based in Gulfport) to begin the clean-up and rebuilding of the infrastructure.
Ordered the opening of the Camp Shelby National Guard training camp near Hattiesburg to serve as temporary housing for victims.
Ordered two squadrons of military police from Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi to assist local police in maintaining order.
Ordered all non-essential Keesler Air Force Base personnel to report for hurricane clean-up duty.
Ordered four US Navy ships (two helicopter carriers and two hospital ships) into Gulfport harbor to care for the injured and make food and water drops to survivors in remote areas.
The US Army sent 4 specially trained scout dog platoons to search for survivors and victims, and provided 4 Army mortuary teams to deal with the bodies.
HUD sent 5,000 mobile homes to the area for temporary housing, with victims moving in to them less than one week after the storm.
The Department of Defense sent 16,500 troops from all branches of the service to the Gulf Coast to bring in and distribute food, water, clothing and blankets.
The US Army sent hundreds of medical personnel to set up and maintain medical facilities (M.A.S.H. units)
Within one month of the storm, the Department of the Treasury had distributed 75,000 checks totaling $25 million in rehabilitation loans.
Over the first week after the storm, the Department Of Justice’s Community Relations Service had distributed over 50 tons of bedding, and passed along over 40,000 textbooks to school children.
The FBI was ordered to the area to assist coroners in identifying hurricane victims.
The US Department of Agriculture supplied 5 tons of pesticides and helicopter-mounted sprayers to control the swarms of mosquitoes and other pests.
Within one month, the FHA had approved 353 emergency loans totaling $5 million to rebuild homes.
The Department Of Commerce approved $30 million in emergency loans to rebuild businesses.
The Department of Health provided $4 million in relief supplies, including cots, blankets, typhoid and tetanus vaccines and other medical supplies, plus temporary mobile school classrooms.
Before Camille made landfall, the President asked the Red Cross to set up shelters to accommodate 85,000 people for up to two months after the storm hit.
And this is just a partial list, which doesn’t even include the efforts of the local and state National Guard units, or the US Coast Guard. And as a side note, this massive relief effort in 1969 was also during a time of war, in a little place called Vietnam.
By the way, the President Of The United States on August 19, 1969 was Richard M. Nixon...not one of the brightest lights to occupy the White House, or one of the least corrupt. I never thought I’d live long enough to find myself wishing for Tricky Dicky.
*Hurricane Camille, Monster Storm Of The Gulf Coast
Philip D. Hearn
University Press of Mississippi, 2004
> > "Never try to teach a pig to
> > > sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
> > >
> > I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this....
> > THAT'S FUNNY!
> >
> > It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal
>
> > attacks.
> > Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree
> to
> > disagree.
> >
>
> My best friend went Republican during the election of 2000,
> and he uses that patronizing "we'll just agree to disagree"
> line. You guys live in a world of "Bush is always right" and
> work backwards from there to justify everything he does. If
> he got up on stage and unzipped his pants and whizzed on
> everyone in the front row, you guys would come up with a way
> to defend that too...
>
> And like "inthebag" I lived in Gulfport 8 years and my
> ex-wife and son lost everything they own (EVERYTHING THEY
> OWN) as in "their house no longer exists" so I have an
> interest in this too, and think Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco,
> and Haley Barbour have handled the crisis as well as they
> could with what they had. The federal government should be
> ashamed for failing to be there when they were needed.
>
The only other Category 5 storm to hit the Gulf Coast, Hurricane Camille, made landfall at almost exactly the same spot on August 18th, 1969.
On August 19th (the very next day), the following happened*:
The President of the United States ordered 1,500 troops from the Third Army into the area to support and assist local officials in any way possible.
The President ordered in 800 members of the US Army Corps Of Engineers and 600 members of the US Navy Construction Battalion (the Seabees, along with tons of heavy construction equipment based in Gulfport) to begin the clean-up and rebuilding of the infrastructure.
Ordered the opening of the Camp Shelby National Guard training camp near Hattiesburg to serve as temporary housing for victims.
Ordered two squadrons of military police from Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi to assist local police in maintaining order.
Ordered all non-essential Keesler Air Force Base personnel to report for hurricane clean-up duty.
Ordered four US Navy ships (two helicopter carriers and two hospital ships) into Gulfport harbor to care for the injured and make food and water drops to survivors in remote areas.
The US Army sent 4 specially trained scout dog platoons to search for survivors and victims, and provided 4 Army mortuary teams to deal with the bodies.
HUD sent 5,000 mobile homes to the area for temporary housing, with victims moving in to them less than one week after the storm.
The Department of Defense sent 16,500 troops from all branches of the service to the Gulf Coast to bring in and distribute food, water, clothing and blankets.
The US Army sent hundreds of medical personnel to set up and maintain medical facilities (M.A.S.H. units)
Within one month of the storm, the Department of the Treasury had distributed 75,000 checks totaling $25 million in rehabilitation loans.
Over the first week after the storm, the Department Of Justice’s Community Relations Service had distributed over 50 tons of bedding, and passed along over 40,000 textbooks to school children.
The FBI was ordered to the area to assist coroners in identifying hurricane victims.
The US Department of Agriculture supplied 5 tons of pesticides and helicopter-mounted sprayers to control the swarms of mosquitoes and other pests.
Within one month, the FHA had approved 353 emergency loans totaling $5 million to rebuild homes.
The Department Of Commerce approved $30 million in emergency loans to rebuild businesses.
The Department of Health provided $4 million in relief supplies, including cots, blankets, typhoid and tetanus vaccines and other medical supplies, plus temporary mobile school classrooms.
Before Camille made landfall, the President asked the Red Cross to set up shelters to accommodate 85,000 people for up to two months after the storm hit.
And this is just a partial list, which doesn’t even include the efforts of the local and state National Guard units, or the US Coast Guard. And as a side note, this massive relief effort in 1969 was also during a time of war, in a little place called Vietnam.
By the way, the President Of The United States on August 19, 1969 was Richard M. Nixon...not one of the brightest lights to occupy the White House, or one of the least corrupt. I never thought I’d live long enough to find myself wishing for Tricky Dicky.
*Hurricane Camille, Monster Storm Of The Gulf Coast
Philip D. Hearn
University Press of Mississippi, 2004
> > "Never try to teach a pig to
> > > sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
> > >
> > I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this....
> > THAT'S FUNNY!
> >
> > It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal
>
> > attacks.
> > Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree
> to
> > disagree.
> >
>
> My best friend went Republican during the election of 2000,
> and he uses that patronizing "we'll just agree to disagree"
> line. You guys live in a world of "Bush is always right" and
> work backwards from there to justify everything he does. If
> he got up on stage and unzipped his pants and whizzed on
> everyone in the front row, you guys would come up with a way
> to defend that too...
>
> And like "inthebag" I lived in Gulfport 8 years and my
> ex-wife and son lost everything they own (EVERYTHING THEY
> OWN) as in "their house no longer exists" so I have an
> interest in this too, and think Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco,
> and Haley Barbour have handled the crisis as well as they
> could with what they had. The federal government should be
> ashamed for failing to be there when they were needed.
>
Not once did I say that George Bush was right... I said the response was not adequate, but that first response is the RESPONSIBILITY of LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
Read the whole thing, Kevin.
I'm very sorry to hear about your family's losses.
> > "Never try to teach a pig to
> > > sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
> > >
> > I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this....
> > THAT'S FUNNY!
> >
> > It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal
>
> > attacks.
> > Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree
> to
> > disagree.
> >
>
> My best friend went Republican during the election of 2000,
> and he uses that patronizing "we'll just agree to disagree"
> line. You guys live in a world of "Bush is always right" and
> work backwards from there to justify everything he does. If
> he got up on stage and unzipped his pants and whizzed on
> everyone in the front row, you guys would come up with a way
> to defend that too...
>
> And like "inthebag" I lived in Gulfport 8 years and my
> ex-wife and son lost everything they own (EVERYTHING THEY
> OWN) as in "their house no longer exists" so I have an
> interest in this too, and think Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco,
> and Haley Barbour have handled the crisis as well as they
> could with what they had. The federal government should be
> ashamed for failing to be there when they were needed.
>
Read the whole thing, Kevin.
I'm very sorry to hear about your family's losses.
> > "Never try to teach a pig to
> > > sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
> > >
> > I don't know about the rest of it, but I do know this....
> > THAT'S FUNNY!
> >
> > It was not my intention to insult you or make any personal
>
> > attacks.
> > Please do not take personal offense. I will gladly agree
> to
> > disagree.
> >
>
> My best friend went Republican during the election of 2000,
> and he uses that patronizing "we'll just agree to disagree"
> line. You guys live in a world of "Bush is always right" and
> work backwards from there to justify everything he does. If
> he got up on stage and unzipped his pants and whizzed on
> everyone in the front row, you guys would come up with a way
> to defend that too...
>
> And like "inthebag" I lived in Gulfport 8 years and my
> ex-wife and son lost everything they own (EVERYTHING THEY
> OWN) as in "their house no longer exists" so I have an
> interest in this too, and think Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco,
> and Haley Barbour have handled the crisis as well as they
> could with what they had. The federal government should be
> ashamed for failing to be there when they were needed.
>
Then I stand corrected, inthebag. See, I practice what I preach. I take RESPONSIBILITY for what I SAY and what I DO. Which is all I ask of the finger pointing mayor of NOLA and Governor of LA.
You would think I had said that they should fall on their own swords for their incompetance.
And just as a note, I am neither republican nor democrat. I am conservative but let me assure you I don't forget that GWB is just a man, and as such he is not perfect. I TOTALLY disagree with his immigration policy and several of his second term moves. I also happen to think that the republican party should stop acting like they lost the election and do the job that the people of this country sent them to do.
I'm tired of the liberals (Note: I did not say Democrats) in this country who take every chance to piss on the President. They continue to make themselves look like total A-holes. Moveon.org is now running an ad about John Roberts using pictures of hurricane victims (Source: Drudge Report). WTF? What does one have to do with the other? Please respond if you can understand the link, I sincerely want to know! <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bdcast_tech on 09/08/05 02:20 PM.</FONT></P>
You would think I had said that they should fall on their own swords for their incompetance.
And just as a note, I am neither republican nor democrat. I am conservative but let me assure you I don't forget that GWB is just a man, and as such he is not perfect. I TOTALLY disagree with his immigration policy and several of his second term moves. I also happen to think that the republican party should stop acting like they lost the election and do the job that the people of this country sent them to do.
I'm tired of the liberals (Note: I did not say Democrats) in this country who take every chance to piss on the President. They continue to make themselves look like total A-holes. Moveon.org is now running an ad about John Roberts using pictures of hurricane victims (Source: Drudge Report). WTF? What does one have to do with the other? Please respond if you can understand the link, I sincerely want to know! <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bdcast_tech on 09/08/05 02:20 PM.</FONT></P>
> I'm tired of the liberals (Note: I did not say Democrats) in
> this country who take every chance to piss on the President.
> They continue to make themselves look like total A-holes.
> Moveon.org is now running an ad about John Roberts using
> pictures of hurricane victims (Source: Drudge Report). WTF?
> What does one have to do with the other? Please respond if
> you can understand the link, I sincerely want to know!
Interesting...I just checked out MoveOn's website, watched all the ads, and this one does not exist. Given the fact that MoveOn uses donations to pay for their ads, would they not have it there, shilling for money? Could it be possible that the Drudge Report might be in error? Is it also safe to say that no responsible person should take the conservative-leaning Drudge Report as gospel, any more than that person should take everything coming from Air America as un-slanted truth? Isn't it a good idea for a responsible person to check facts before making rash statements and accusations based on hearsay?
And since when did intelligent debate, disagreement and more importantly, a presentation of facts become "pissing on the President"? When he's right, he gets a cookie. When he's wrong, he gets spanked. Welcome to the adult world of responsibility, where you have to pay for your mistakes, no matter who you are.
We now return all dittoheads to their regularly scheduled dose of venom from Rush, who can prove without a doubt that Hurricane Katrina was a left-wing plot, spearheaded by Hillary Clinton.
> this country who take every chance to piss on the President.
> They continue to make themselves look like total A-holes.
> Moveon.org is now running an ad about John Roberts using
> pictures of hurricane victims (Source: Drudge Report). WTF?
> What does one have to do with the other? Please respond if
> you can understand the link, I sincerely want to know!
Interesting...I just checked out MoveOn's website, watched all the ads, and this one does not exist. Given the fact that MoveOn uses donations to pay for their ads, would they not have it there, shilling for money? Could it be possible that the Drudge Report might be in error? Is it also safe to say that no responsible person should take the conservative-leaning Drudge Report as gospel, any more than that person should take everything coming from Air America as un-slanted truth? Isn't it a good idea for a responsible person to check facts before making rash statements and accusations based on hearsay?
And since when did intelligent debate, disagreement and more importantly, a presentation of facts become "pissing on the President"? When he's right, he gets a cookie. When he's wrong, he gets spanked. Welcome to the adult world of responsibility, where you have to pay for your mistakes, no matter who you are.
We now return all dittoheads to their regularly scheduled dose of venom from Rush, who can prove without a doubt that Hurricane Katrina was a left-wing plot, spearheaded by Hillary Clinton.
Re: No point continuing this...
Hopefully, this will be my last political post, believe it or not, I don't think it's appropriate on this site... and please don't take this the wrong way... we have had an email conversation (about radio) quite a while back, and I think you are a very nice person.
I would only disagree with one thing you said... I actually believe that Mayor Nagin did an excellent job beforehand, and I offer this as basis for my beliefs...
The study they did that predicted tens of thousands of deaths back in the 90's when I lived in Gulfport predicted that the high number of casualties would in part be blamed on the inability to clear New Orleans of residents. By this, I mean that the evacuation time for moving over a million people given the highway routes available would exceed the amount of time available, once it would become clear a hurricane was coming in. You have to be sure of where it's going before you order that kind of evacuation... (Think 1999 and Hurricane Floyd, which cruised up the coast of Florida, causing massive evacuations, then finally hit NC)
Anyway, Mayor Nagin took the unprecedented step of ordering a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans and offered the Superdome as the "refuge of last resort"... making it clear that the best option was to flee the city, but for the stubborn last minute hold-outs, or those who had no transportation, the Superdome would be available... and the local guy in charge of the Superdome, when asked about the comfort level, said "I don't care if they are comfortable, my job is to make sure they are all alive on Tuesday morning."
And New Orleans WAS evacuated, thanks to Nagin's swift action. Except for those die-hards and those without transportation, but nobody got stuck in traffic and died on I-10 like they predicted...
These people were straight shooters... they told it like it was, no BS. I watched WWL-TV streaming coverage all through the thing, and I heard Nagin's entire interview on WWL 870 AM, not just the edited excerpts they showed over and over again on tv. No, he didn't lead the troops down Canal Street on TV, giving us a "Giuliani moment" to inspire the nation... he had his sleeves rolled up trying to save New Orleans. The sandbags that finally plugged the levees were supposed to be put in place before it failed, and while he was dealing with other issues, (believe it or not a disaster takes a lot of work to manage), the work didn't get done. Slings were not available, and they didn't tell him until later that it didn't get done. That's when he got angry, and at that point he deserved to be angry. If the work had been done, the city wouldn't have flooded to the point that it did.
If you start with the premise that everything Bush does smells like roses, then it's easy to work backwards to "it must be Mayor Nagin (D.) and Governor Blanco (D.) to blame... but if you start with the facts of the situation, and there are a lot of facts to follow here, then the picture becomes a bit clearer... the federal government needed to step up and take decisive action to help. And if Anderson Cooper, Elizabeth Vargas, Bob Woodruff, and other journalists could make it in, then I would think the US military could do the same.
To quote Chris Rock, they found Saddam Hussein in a hole in the ground in Iraq... you mean to tell me they can't find a way to get to New Orleans/Slidell/Picayune/Bay St. Louis/Waveland/Poplarville/Chalmette/the Kiln/Pass Christian????
That's my case for laying the blame where it belongs... and in typical Bush CEO of the USA fashion, "Brownie you're doing a heck of a job"... unless the heat gets a little too hot, then Brown becomes the scapegoat. Otherwise, we just cover it up and forget about it. Which president said "the buck stops here"??? Can we dig him up and bring him back please?
>
> Really? I'm quite Republican, thank you, and I've been a
> disaster repsonder for 20 years...I think it was a local,
> state and federal screw up of major proportions....and FEMA
> should take a lot of the heat.
>
> I also think Bush should explain why he appointed someone to
> head up FEMA who had no disaster management experience at
> all.
>
> The mayor and governor blew it before the storm, FEMA blew
> it after.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by kevinkelly on 09/09/05 04:48 PM.</FONT></P>
Hopefully, this will be my last political post, believe it or not, I don't think it's appropriate on this site... and please don't take this the wrong way... we have had an email conversation (about radio) quite a while back, and I think you are a very nice person.
I would only disagree with one thing you said... I actually believe that Mayor Nagin did an excellent job beforehand, and I offer this as basis for my beliefs...
The study they did that predicted tens of thousands of deaths back in the 90's when I lived in Gulfport predicted that the high number of casualties would in part be blamed on the inability to clear New Orleans of residents. By this, I mean that the evacuation time for moving over a million people given the highway routes available would exceed the amount of time available, once it would become clear a hurricane was coming in. You have to be sure of where it's going before you order that kind of evacuation... (Think 1999 and Hurricane Floyd, which cruised up the coast of Florida, causing massive evacuations, then finally hit NC)
Anyway, Mayor Nagin took the unprecedented step of ordering a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans and offered the Superdome as the "refuge of last resort"... making it clear that the best option was to flee the city, but for the stubborn last minute hold-outs, or those who had no transportation, the Superdome would be available... and the local guy in charge of the Superdome, when asked about the comfort level, said "I don't care if they are comfortable, my job is to make sure they are all alive on Tuesday morning."
And New Orleans WAS evacuated, thanks to Nagin's swift action. Except for those die-hards and those without transportation, but nobody got stuck in traffic and died on I-10 like they predicted...
These people were straight shooters... they told it like it was, no BS. I watched WWL-TV streaming coverage all through the thing, and I heard Nagin's entire interview on WWL 870 AM, not just the edited excerpts they showed over and over again on tv. No, he didn't lead the troops down Canal Street on TV, giving us a "Giuliani moment" to inspire the nation... he had his sleeves rolled up trying to save New Orleans. The sandbags that finally plugged the levees were supposed to be put in place before it failed, and while he was dealing with other issues, (believe it or not a disaster takes a lot of work to manage), the work didn't get done. Slings were not available, and they didn't tell him until later that it didn't get done. That's when he got angry, and at that point he deserved to be angry. If the work had been done, the city wouldn't have flooded to the point that it did.
If you start with the premise that everything Bush does smells like roses, then it's easy to work backwards to "it must be Mayor Nagin (D.) and Governor Blanco (D.) to blame... but if you start with the facts of the situation, and there are a lot of facts to follow here, then the picture becomes a bit clearer... the federal government needed to step up and take decisive action to help. And if Anderson Cooper, Elizabeth Vargas, Bob Woodruff, and other journalists could make it in, then I would think the US military could do the same.
To quote Chris Rock, they found Saddam Hussein in a hole in the ground in Iraq... you mean to tell me they can't find a way to get to New Orleans/Slidell/Picayune/Bay St. Louis/Waveland/Poplarville/Chalmette/the Kiln/Pass Christian????
That's my case for laying the blame where it belongs... and in typical Bush CEO of the USA fashion, "Brownie you're doing a heck of a job"... unless the heat gets a little too hot, then Brown becomes the scapegoat. Otherwise, we just cover it up and forget about it. Which president said "the buck stops here"??? Can we dig him up and bring him back please?
>
> Really? I'm quite Republican, thank you, and I've been a
> disaster repsonder for 20 years...I think it was a local,
> state and federal screw up of major proportions....and FEMA
> should take a lot of the heat.
>
> I also think Bush should explain why he appointed someone to
> head up FEMA who had no disaster management experience at
> all.
>
> The mayor and governor blew it before the storm, FEMA blew
> it after.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by kevinkelly on 09/09/05 04:48 PM.</FONT></P>
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