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Nashville HD observations

W

w9wi

UPS showed up with my Boston Acoustics Receptor HD this evening. A few observations:

- Sorry guys, but I can't tell the difference (in audio quality) between HD and regular FM. (they didn't deliver the radio until after 6:00 so WLAC-HD was already off the air & I couldn't test AM)

- WPLN and WNRQ are carrying HD2 channels. WPLN with the same type of programming as the analog FM (classical music and talk) but different programs. WNRQ with oldies, no particular format (they tracked a Beatles album, then started playing various 60s soul/top40 hits, no announcements) No HD2 on WVNS.

- HD reception does require more signal than analog. The radio came with a short wire (about 18") antenna for FM; the HD light would blink occasionally on WPLN but I'd never get any HD reception. Had to hook up the TV antenna to get any HD.

- The HD on WNRQ drops out for about 5 seconds about every 30-60 seconds. Neither WPLN nor WVNS does that. IIRC WNRQ is on the same tower as WPLN and runs about 20% *more* power. Tested only on WNRQ-HD2, don't know if HD1 drops out but I strongly suspect it does.

- Nobody's HD audio seems to be perfecly time-sync'd to the analog - there's always a bit of a "stutter" when the HD locks in. I'm not entirely sure this is the stations' fault though - as the Receptor HD itself seems to delay analog audio slightly. (compare an analog-only station tuned on the Receptor to the same station tuned on an analog-only receiver)

- It takes roughly 5 seconds for the radio to lock in to a HD signal. At least on this radio.
 
> UPS showed up with my Boston Acoustics Receptor HD this
> evening. A few observations:
>
> - Sorry guys, but I can't tell the difference (in audio
> quality) between HD and regular FM. (they didn't deliver
> the radio until after 6:00 so WLAC-HD was already off the
> air & I couldn't test AM)
>
> - WPLN and WNRQ are carrying HD2 channels. WPLN with the
> same type of programming as the analog FM (classical music
> and talk) but different programs. WNRQ with oldies, no
> particular format (they tracked a Beatles album, then
> started playing various 60s soul/top40 hits, no
> announcements) No HD2 on WVNS.
>
> - HD reception does require more signal than analog. The
> radio came with a short wire (about 18") antenna for FM; the
> HD light would blink occasionally on WPLN but I'd never get
> any HD reception. Had to hook up the TV antenna to get any
> HD.
>
> - The HD on WNRQ drops out for about 5 seconds about every
> 30-60 seconds. Neither WPLN nor WVNS does that. IIRC WNRQ
> is on the same tower as WPLN and runs about 20% *more*
> power. Tested only on WNRQ-HD2, don't know if HD1 drops out
> but I strongly suspect it does.
>
> - Nobody's HD audio seems to be perfecly time-sync'd to the
> analog - there's always a bit of a "stutter" when the HD
> locks in. I'm not entirely sure this is the stations' fault
> though - as the Receptor HD itself seems to delay analog
> audio slightly. (compare an analog-only station tuned on
> the Receptor to the same station tuned on an analog-only
> receiver)
>
> - It takes roughly 5 seconds for the radio to lock in to a
> HD signal. At least on this radio.
>
Some of the same issues I am seeing with my HD TV I just purchased.

Nock
 
WLAC-HD is now on the air. (6:45 am) It is nearly impossible to receive.

It is partially the receiver's fault - the set's power supply radiates a hash (which strangely enough sounds a lot like HD sidebands as monitored on an analog radio!) on 1510KHz. Only by very careful nulling with the antenna is it possible to knock it down enough for the HD to decode.

The set seems very sensitive at detecting that a station *has* HD but a lot less so in decoding it. (the HD light blinks on Chicago stations WSCR, WGN, WBBM, and WRLL; and on Louisville's WHAS, as well as of course on WLAC unless the noise is nulled enough to actually decode the HD) It will also read the station's call letters before it's able to decode audio.

Once the HD does decode it sounds good but as with FM, it's not a quantum leap above analog. It does sound *different* but that's mostly a frequency-response thing. I do at times hear compression artifacts. Others have commented that it sounds like Internet streaming audio over a good dialup connection and I'd concur.

WLAC does have the HD and analog perfectly synchronized - no delay.

I have not been able to decode any other AM stations besides WLAC.
 
> Some of the same issues I am seeing with my HD TV I just
> purchased.

(can you elaborate? I work for one of the TV stations & might have some useful ideas. Or might not.)
 
> > Some of the same issues I am seeing with my HD TV I just
> > purchased.
>
> (can you elaborate? I work for one of the TV stations &
> might have some useful ideas. Or might not.)
>
I am on Direct TV and the locals are not in HD yet. So I am relying on good ole fashioned rabbit ears. Channel 4 is impossible to pick up over the air. Pulled some power info off the FCC website and if I read it correctly they seem to have the lowest wattage HD signal out there? The best signal so far seems to be Channel 2. (Clean and no loss of signal) I live closest to Ch 5 tower yet their signal digitizes in and out a lot. Channel 8 is okay and 17 is probably second best to 2. I live in MT Juliet. 17 seems to broadcast the same signal on all of it's HD channels. If I flip between them, There is a lag between them? That is the reference to some of the problems I saw similar to the radio HD. Not really a problem. Seems like the HD signal is very sensitive. Just looking forward to when Direct TV gets the locals on the big bird in the sky. HD TV however is UNBELIEVABLE! THE GEC looked great Sunday in all 61 inches of HD.

Nock
 
Not having a clue about HD, or anything else related to radio,
I do have a question about WVNS 102.5's HD - doesn't it affect
signal fade? Does it affect the signal strength negatively because
102.5 seems to be worse sounding since they switched. Then again,
I don't listen enough (actually before or after) to really know.
Will HD hurt a lot of fringe signals in major metro areas? The
WLAC info is interesting!
 
> I am on Direct TV and the locals are not in HD yet. So I am
> relying on good ole fashioned rabbit ears. Channel 4 is
> impossible to pick up over the air. Pulled some power info
> off the FCC website and if I read it correctly they seem to
> have the lowest wattage HD signal out there?

Channel 4's HD is also the only VHF digital signal in town. (it's on VHF channel 10) Our 42-something kw of power on channel 10 is very roughly equivalent to 660kw on the other stations' UHF channels.

But propagation on the VHF channel can also be rather different. You may need to lengthen the rabbit ears to get channel 4 properly. If you have any splitters etc. in the line, be sure they're designed to pass VHF. (a friend up in Ridgetop was having trouble with channel 4, and it turned out he had a UHF-only splitter in his antenna)

> 17 seems to broadcast the
> same signal on all of it's HD channels. If I flip between
> them, There is a lag between them?

One of those channels is HD, the other SD. I don't know why they run both - maybe one is intended to be carried on cable systems?

> sensitive. Just looking forward to when Direct TV gets the
> locals on the big bird in the sky. HD TV however is
> UNBELIEVABLE! THE GEC looked great Sunday in all 61 inches
> of HD.

One of the two satellite companies now *does* have Nashville locals in HD - I forget which one.
 
Thanks for the info! Must be Dish Network because Direct TV does not have the locals scheduled until April. Currently running my rabbit ears through the HD receiver. Will try your suggestions. Sorry to drag everyone else through my HD "TV" issues on the radio board. Over and out. Here is a question, who will be the first newscast broadcast locally in HD?

Nock
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Nock on 03/15/06 03:46 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> Channel 4's HD is also the only VHF digital signal in town.
> (it's on VHF channel 10) Our 42-something kw of power on
> channel 10 is very roughly equivalent to 660kw on the other
> stations' UHF channels.

I get WSMV-DT very well in Hermitage. I've also noticed you're the only station in Nashville that has no chroma rainbows/dot crawl on your studio feeds. I guess all your video gear is component, not composite? It looks great. Others, especially WKRN, have some bad chroma errors.
 
> Here is a question, who will be the first newscast broadcast locally
> in HD?

Good question.

That's going to be a VERY expensive move. Much more so than relaying network HD. I think it'll happen in bits and pieces as studio equipment (cameras, production switchers, etc.) require replacement.
 
> I get WSMV-DT very well in Hermitage. I've also noticed
> you're the only station in Nashville that has no chroma
> rainbows/dot crawl on your studio feeds. I guess all your
> video gear is component, not composite? It looks great.
> Others, especially WKRN, have some bad chroma errors.

I'm apparently not sensitive to that kind of thing as I don't see anything wrong with the competition either!

Yes, our video plant is entirely component for most sources, (and usually digital) provided you're watching the HD signal. Probably on digital SD cable too though I'm not 100% certain Comcast keeps it digital once we hand it off to them. I suppose live remotes are the most-often-used source that's still analog/composite.
 
> Yes, our video plant is entirely component for most sources,
> (and usually digital) provided you're watching the HD
> signal. Probably on digital SD cable too though I'm not
> 100% certain Comcast keeps it digital once we hand it off to
> them. I suppose live remotes are the most-often-used source
> that's still analog/composite.
>

The dot crawl isn't on any DirecTV SD locals, so they must use component. (or very good comb filters!)
 
> > Here is a question, who will be the first newscast
> broadcast locally
> > in HD?
>
> Good question.
>
> That's going to be a VERY expensive move. Much more so than
> relaying network HD. I think it'll happen in bits and
> pieces as studio equipment (cameras, production switchers,
> etc.) require replacement.
>
When the TV stations finally end their annalog broadcasting; Will portable TVs be useless? On the radio side; Will stations some day just broadcast on their HD channels and have nothing but dead air on their standard frequencies?

The HD channels on comcast broadcast on their digital channels (the channels from 100 and above) on the cable system. Soon all of the channels will be digital. The channels below 100 are annalog but their making the changes now.
 
> When the TV stations finally end their annalog broadcasting;
> Will portable TVs be useless? On the radio side; Will
> stations some day just broadcast on their HD channels and
> have nothing but dead air on their standard frequencies?

All new TVs, including portables, will be required to have digital tuners next year. All TVs over 25" are already required to.

As for HD Radio, if it ever becomes standard, the stations will be completely digital on their original analog frequencies and stop using the sidebands they use now.
 
> > Here is a question, who will be the first newscast
> broadcast locally
> > in HD?
>
> Good question.
>
> That's going to be a VERY expensive move. Much more so than
> relaying network HD. I think it'll happen in bits and
> pieces as studio equipment (cameras, production switchers,
> etc.) require replacement.
>
Reason I asked, while in Atlanta over Christmas, one of their stations were tooting their horn as being all digital newscast. In fact the paper mentioned how the make up artist really had their work cut out for them as well as set makers because the wear and tear on sets and faces over the years were very obvious in HD.

Nock
 
Re: Nashville HD (radio & TV!) observations

> When the TV stations finally end their annalog broadcasting;
> Will portable TVs be useless?

Probably<grin>. Analog TVs will cease to work unless connected to:

- A VCR or DVD player (in which case you'll be able to play tapes or DVDs but not watch stations)

- Cable or satellite

- A digital-to-analog converter box (currently available for roughly $200-250 at many electronics stores)

Of course these options are of questionable value for a portable set<grin>. As the other reply indicated, a mandate is being phased in to require *new* TVs to contain digital tuners. This mandate already applies to large-screen sets and will eventually extend to everything that contains a tuner.

> On the radio side; Will
> stations some day just broadcast on their HD channels and
> have nothing but dead air on their standard frequencies?

In theory, radio will be able to eventually turn off their analog signals and move their HD digital carriers into the space currently occupied by the analog. That requires that enough digital radios be sold to make it economically practical to abandon the analog-only audience. I don't expect that to happen any time soon. (to be honest I don't expect it to happen at all)

HD Radio is broadcast centered on the same channels as the analog. So when (if) the analog is shut down, it will *sound* like dead air on an analog radio but there will in fact be digital carriers there.
 
> Not having a clue about HD, or anything else related to
> radio,
> I do have a question about WVNS 102.5's HD - doesn't it
> affect
> signal fade? Does it affect the signal strength negatively
> because
> 102.5 seems to be worse sounding since they switched. Then
> again,
> I don't listen enough (actually before or after) to really
> know.
> Will HD hurt a lot of fringe signals in major metro areas?
> The
> WLAC info is interesting!
>
doesn't seem to effect WNRQ any, it still booms in down here south of the state line. no idea about 102.5, I rarely get it even with the directional antenna<P ID="signature">______________
<div align="center"><a href="http://wolf103.tk">
wolf103ownerUB.png
</P></span></P></span>
</P>
 
> - The HD on WNRQ drops out for about 5 seconds about every
> 30-60 seconds. Neither WPLN nor WVNS does that. IIRC WNRQ
> is on the same tower as WPLN and runs about 20% *more*
> power. Tested only on WNRQ-HD2, don't know if HD1 drops out
> but I strongly suspect it does.

No, it doesn't. The HD1 channel is rock solid. It sounds like WNRQ has a problem with their program source for the HD2 channel. (my guess is a satellite receiver)

> - Nobody's HD audio seems to be perfecly time-sync'd to the
> analog - there's always a bit of a "stutter" when the HD

WLAC's is perfectly syn'd. I'm beginning to wonder if the time-sync issues on the FM stations are a figment of the radio's imagination - if they're resulting from the fact that the radio delays analog FM signals.
 
> Not having a clue about HD, or anything else related to
> radio,
> I do have a question about WVNS 102.5's HD - doesn't it
> affect
> signal fade? Does it affect the signal strength negatively
> because
> 102.5 seems to be worse sounding since they switched. Then
> again,
> I don't listen enough (actually before or after) to really
> know.
> Will HD hurt a lot of fringe signals in major metro areas?
> The
> WLAC info is interesting!
>


HD radio transmission in way way effects the analog signal as far as signal strength goes. They utilize two different exciters or transmitters.

Try the HD Radio forum on this site to ask more questions. There are a lot of well experienced people that can help.
 
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