National Public Radio Journalist Believes That NPR Listening Demographics Have Changed And...

[radiofan2023]

NPR didn't want to give him what I think he really wanted (a firing so he could play the victim) so they did the next best thing (but he will probably find a way to still play the victim somehow). Whenever I've worked somewhere I disagreed with the direction of, I've just found a new job and then left...

 

[gr8oldies]

Oh the injustice! He's now just like a January 6th Capitol Hostage...😑

Deep state! Deep state! Deep state!

 

[boombox4]

We just had a Solar Eclipse. There are still people who do not accept facts like the Earth rotates around the Sun.
The groups that don't trust the Mainstream Media are generally the Deep State lunatics. They want to hear what pleases them, not facts.

The story by Uri that NPR is "Telling listeners what to think" is not accurate...

Wrong. Increasing numbers of Americans of all political stripes do not trust the news media. Pew Research and Gallup have done research on this. Look it up.

 

[boombox4]

NPR has now suspended Uri Berliner for five days without pay for violating its work policy:

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1244962042/npr-editor-uri-berliner-suspended-essay

He wrote this essay for another service without permission.

He'll bear the brunt of it, but it's much the same with most such incidents. Frances Haugen wasn't exposing her employers' problems with their permission, either.

 

[michael hagerty]

Wrong. Increasing numbers of Americans of all political stripes do not trust the news media. Pew Research and Gallup have done research on this. Look it up.

I did.

Pew's study is now two years old.

Gallup's is fresher (last fall) and shows a significant decline, but the bulk of that is driven by low trust levels among Republicans and Independents.

More than half (58%) of Democrats in the Gallup study say they have a great deal or fair amount of trust in mass media to report the news fully, accurately and fairly as opposed to 29 percent of independents and 11% of Republicans.

Media Confidence in U.S. Matches 2016 Record Low

Americans' trust in the mass media's reporting matches its lowest point in Gallup's trend, largely because of Democrats' decreased trust.

news.gallup.com

Worth remembering about this sort of survey is that "Mass Media" is simply defined as "Newspapers, TV and Radio" and not broken out beyond that. So even Democrats, who have a higher overall trust of mass media, can include operations like FOX News, Newsmax, OAN, etc. in that definition and have their distrust of those sources count.

 

[boombox4]

I'm trying to stay out of this conversation as much as possible, having made what I think are the essential points in my post on page one.

While I can't claim Uri's 25 years in one organization, two of the newsrooms I worked in add up to 20 years of my career (until my retirement on January 31).

I think it's the reverse of what you say, boombox4. There's a huge "forest for the trees" factor involved. The experience of gathering, fact-checking, editing, producing and broadcasting the news is very different from hearing the finished product as a listener.

In that environment, a person is simply too close, and in a news organization as large as NPR, also too far removed from it as a whole to provide informed and objective comment on that organization's journalistic quality.

I think it would require an outside observer---the Columbia Journalism Review, perhaps---doing a deep dive on the past five years of NPR's coverage to eliminate the variables and biases (conscious and unconscious) that come from someone on the inside.

Point taken, but the guy worked there, and he seems genuinely concerned about what is happening at NPR.

And working in any work environment for 25 years, you can tell if your co-workers have biases or not, and you also can tell if stories are being spiked or otherwise underreported.

Naturally, you're not privy to the perception of every listener. Probably the majority of workers at NPR and their stations aren't privy to that. But NPR is losing listeners. The Pew study shows this trend. Perhaps they're losing listeners because their listeners -- like what is happening with AM radio -- are dying off and younger demos don't like NPR's presentation. As stated before, 30% of younger demos get their "news" via TikTok.

As for a Columbia Journalism Review or some other outside observer -- that has been done. At least one organization, Adfontes Media, has found that NPR is just left of center and most of their reporting is factual. I personally haven't heard any blatant bias on NPR. So I think Adfontes' media bias chart, when concerning NPR, is pretty accurate.

 

[boombox4]

I did.

Pew's study is now two years old.

Gallup's is fresher (last fall) and shows a significant decline, but the bulk of that is driven by low trust levels among Republicans and Independents.

More than half (58%) of Democrats in the Gallup study say they have a great deal or fair amount of trust in mass media to report the news fully, accurately and fairly as opposed to 29 percent of independents and 11% of Republicans.

Media Confidence in U.S. Matches 2016 Record Low

Americans' trust in the mass media's reporting matches its lowest point in Gallup's trend, largely because of Democrats' decreased trust.

news.gallup.com

Worth remembering about this sort of survey is that "Mass Media" is simply defined as "Newspapers, TV and Radio" and not broken out beyond that. So even Democrats, who have a higher overall trust of mass media, can include operations like FOX News, Newsmax, OAN, etc. in that definition and have their distrust of those sources count.

If it's the same Gallup Poll I am looking at right now, it says that only 32% of Americans trust the media "a great deal" or "a fair amount". And the "no trust at all" numbers have grown from 11% in 2003 to 39% now. Democrats' trust in the media dropped 12% between 2022 and 2023 -- when the poll was published. The numbers for young Democrats are even worse.

One thing to remember is that Democrats comprise between 25-26% of the adult public, Republicans 22-23%, and Independents are around 46% or so -- the number changes year to year, but those are the ranges that have held over the past 15 year or so, according to Gallup. So, when looking at the big picture, the Independent numbers are more important than the D or R numbers.

If 73% of Independents say they trust the media "not very much", or "not at all", they must have reasons for giving those answers.

Americans' Trust In Media Remains Near Record Low

Americans' trust in the media to report the news fully, accurately and fairly remains near the historical low, with sharply differing views among partisans.

news.gallup.com

Media Confidence in U.S. Matches 2016 Record Low

Americans' trust in the mass media's reporting matches its lowest point in Gallup's trend, largely because of Democrats' decreased trust.

news.gallup.com

 

[michael hagerty]

Point taken, but the guy worked there, and he seems genuinely concerned about what is happening at NPR.

The guy is one of 700 people who works there. As I said in an earlier post, you're both too close and too far removed to be an objective critic of your own organization's work.

And working in any work environment for 25 years, you can tell if your co-workers have biases or not, and you also can tell if stories are being spiked or otherwise underreported.

I have worked with people who wore their political biases on their sleeve in the newsroom, whose work was impeccable. You'd never know.

I've also worked with people who are seemingly apolitical, whose copy wasn't as free from bias, unconscious or otherwise.

Naturally, you're not privy to the perception of every listener. Probably the majority of workers at NPR and their stations aren't privy to that. But NPR is losing listeners. The Pew study shows this trend.

The Pew study does not show a trend of NPR or any other outlet losing listeners. It shows a declining number of people who have "a great deal or a fair amount" of trust in the mass media (again, defined only as newspapers, TV and radio) "to report the news fully, accurately and fairly."

Perhaps they're losing listeners because their listeners -- like what is happening with AM radio -- are dying off and younger demos don't like NPR's presentation. As stated before, 30% of younger demos get their "news" via TikTok.

And now you're just guessing.

Another Pew study from last summer looks at listenership, including in subhead four, public radio. It shows a decline of six percent in NPR's terrestrial broadcast listenership between 2021 and 2022.

For National Radio Day, key facts about radio listeners and the radio industry in the U.S.

About eight-in-ten Americans ages 12 and older listen to terrestrial radio in a given week.

www.pewresearch.org

What happened between 2021 and 2022? More people started leaving the house, and fewer felt the need to monitor pandemic news.

As for a Columbia Journalism Review or some other outside observer -- that has been done. At least one organization, Adfontes Media, has found that NPR is just left of center and most of their reporting is factual. I personally haven't heard any blatant bias on NPR. So I think Adfontes' media bias chart, when concerning NPR, is pretty accurate.

If that's your close, then why isn't your take that Uri's just some guy who works there spouting off?

 

[boombox4]

So you've backed off on his knowledge about listeners. OK. As for his opinion about objectivity, he does so by naming several OLD examples, each one of which was addressed publicly by the company at the time. So he has an opinion about the coverage, none of which falls under his purview as an editor of business content. Where he falls apart is connecting that coverage to loss of listeners and revenue, because every other news organization is losing listeners and revenue. Even Spotify, Sirius, and Amazon have been laying off staff.

Agreed. Except according to Pew Research, NPR is not losing revenue. It's still growing in revenue.

When you look at the broader picture of trust, people trust the media they agree with. Conservatives all trust Fox and don't trust the New York Times, and the graph points 100% in the opposite direction for liberals. And yes, that change has happened since 2016. He's right that the demographic has changed. But the change has happened with the audience. The audience has become more polarized. We see that every day. We know that's true. The polarization of the audience was not caused by NPR's coverage. And there's nothing NPR can do in its coverage to change that. NPR has to decide how to cover the news based on the facts, and not on the politics. Because following the politics means reporting on stories that are not always factual.

I still think that if a 25 year NPR veteran sees a problem in NPR's news coverage, there obviously is a problem somewhere.

But does the average listener detect it, or care? That's a good question. Maybe NPR's core demos would actually prefer more advocacy journalism. Obviously, if NPR is concerned about their waning listenership they need to look into it. Although they may be losing listeners the same way AM radio is losing listeners, and some radio formats lost listeners -- they age out, or their audience tires of them. Then again, NPR are still gaining revenues, so maybe this issue is not a problem to them.

He says NPR has lost trust. He works there. He's one of those liberals. Why should we trust HIM? Why is he trustworthy now? Because he's critical makes him trustworthy? Is his editing of NPR business to be trusted? He's basically parroting the same talking points as Fox News. Does that make them more trustworthy? Conservatives now love him because he has confirmed their suspicions. Those are important questions if we're to move forward from this.

Why do people trust any whistleblower? I mentioned Frances Haugen. Congress apparently trusted her enough to have her appear at a hearing, including her (purloined) records from Facebook. One could say "why should we trust anything she said?" Maybe because she worked there? Maybe because, after a while, she determined that something was haywire with what they were doing?

 

[michael hagerty]

If it's the same Gallup Poll I am looking at right now, it says that only 32% of Americans trust the media "a great deal" or "a fair amount". And the "no trust at all" numbers have grown from 11% in 2003 to 39% now. Democrats' trust in the media dropped 12% between 2022 and 2023 -- when the poll was published. The numbers for young Democrats are even worse.

As I said:

Worth remembering about this sort of survey is that "Mass Media" is simply defined as "Newspapers, TV and Radio" and not broken out beyond that. So even Democrats, who have a higher overall trust of mass media, can include operations like FOX News, Newsmax, OAN, etc. in that definition and have their distrust of those sources count.

One thing to remember is that Democrats comprise between 25-26% of the adult public, Republicans 22-23%, and Independents are around 46% or so -- the number changes year to year, but those are the ranges that have held over the past 15 year or so, according to Gallup. So, when looking at the big picture, the Independent numbers are more important than the D or R numbers.

If 73% of Independents say they trust the media "not very much", or "not at all", they must have reasons for giving those answers.

You know what the number one answer you'll get from someone who doesn't watch, listen to or read the news is?

"I don't trust it."

Not "I'm lazy", not "I don't care", not "I'm insufficiently curious", nor "I don't understand it".

"I don't trust it."

That's not all of that number (71% for Independents, not 73%), but it's a factor.

And if you're an NPR listener and you don't detect bias or untrustworthiness, then what is it you think these people are hearing that makes them less trusting in the mass media than you are?

 

[boombox4]

The Pew study does not show a trend of NPR or any other outlet losing listeners. It shows a declining number of people who have "a great deal or a fair amount" of trust in the mass media (again, defined only as newspapers, TV and radio) "to report the news fully, accurately and fairly."

You're confusing the Gallup article with the Pew Study I linked upthread. Both the network in general, and it's key stations in large markets lost listeners.

Here. I will re-link the Pew study, so you can read it. There are two graphs that show listenership has dropped since 2017. The data ends at the end of 2022.

Public Broadcasting Fact Sheet

Hundreds of local and regional radio and television stations comprise the U.S. public media system.

www.pewresearch.org

And now you're just guessing.

Another Pew study from last summer looks at listenership, including in subhead four, public radio. It shows a decline of six percent in NPR's terrestrial broadcast listenership between 2021 and 2022.

For National Radio Day, key facts about radio listeners and the radio industry in the U.S.

About eight-in-ten Americans ages 12 and older listen to terrestrial radio in a given week.

www.pewresearch.org

What happened between 2021 and 2022? More people started leaving the house, and fewer felt the need to monitor pandemic news.

And now you're guessing. Because their listenership has been declining since 2017, 2.5 years before the pandemic hit. So what was going on before the lockdowns to cause the listeners to go away?

If that's your close, then why isn't your take that Uri's just some guy who works there spouting off?

Because the article doesn't read like a guy who's spouting off. It reads like it's written by a guy who has genuine concerns about the place he worked for 25 years of his life.

 

[Mark Roberts]

NPR didn't want to give him what I think he really wanted (a firing so he could play the victim) so they did the next best thing (but he will probably find a way to still play the victim somehow). Whenever I've worked somewhere I disagreed with the direction of, I've just found a new job and then left...

Here's the thing...what does he want? Other than a kind of inchoate desire to turn the clock back to some supposedly simpler time, I can't figure it out.

He also doesn't seem to understand the difference between accepting an interview request and writing a long, detailed essay at his own initiative.

 

[boombox4]

As I said:

Worth remembering about this sort of survey is that "Mass Media" is simply defined as "Newspapers, TV and Radio" and not broken out beyond that. So even Democrats, who have a higher overall trust of mass media, can include operations like FOX News, Newsmax, OAN, etc. in that definition and have their distrust of those sources count.

Yes, and newspapers, TV, and Radio are still where the big mass media news organizations base their operations. As of yet, there isn't a news organization that is a major player that is online only. They're all connected to Newspapers, TV, and Radio. Point taken on Democrats including Fox, or GOPers including MSNBC.

You know what the number one answer you'll get from someone who doesn't watch, listen to or read the news is?

"I don't trust it."

Not "I'm lazy", not "I don't care", not "I'm insufficiently curious", nor "I don't understand it".

"I don't trust it."

I'm sure that a research organization like Pew takes that into consideration when doing their polling.

That's not all of that number (71% for Independents, not 73%), but it's a factor.

And if you're an NPR listener and you don't detect bias or untrustworthiness, then what is it you think these people are hearing that makes them less trusting in the mass media than you are?

Maybe they listen to it more than I do. I don't listen to NPR all that much.

Maybe the NPR listeners who were polled have biases, and see unbiased sources as untrustworthy, something that can happen when the country is becoming more polarized and confirmation bias is king. The news organizations at the top of the Adfontes media chart are all considered unbiased, yet I've heard people say that they don't trust those organizations, probably because their news, or presentation doesn't match their confirmation bias.

And, by the way, 32% ("not very much") + 41% ("none at all") = 73%.

 

[michael hagerty]

You're confusing the Gallup article with the Pew Study I linked upthread.

Sorry---my error.

Both the network in general, and it's key stations in large markets lost listeners.

As has the medium itself.

Here. I will re-link the Pew study, so you can read it. There are two graphs that show listenership has dropped since 2017. The data ends at the end of 2022.

Public Broadcasting Fact Sheet

Hundreds of local and regional radio and television stations comprise the U.S. public media system.

www.pewresearch.org

It's the same data in a different piece, Key point:

When looking specifically at NPR programming across all stations that carry it, weekly terrestrial broadcast listenership declined by 6% between 2021 and 2022.

And now you're guessing. Because their listenership has been declining since 2017, 2.5 years before the pandemic hit.

Fair. But let's remember that the medium overall is declining.

So what was going on before the lockdowns to cause the listeners to go away?

Go back and look at that graph. There's a huge spike in listenership in 2016 and 2017, with numbers declining, but still higher than 2015 and before, in 2018 and 2019.

The better question might be what caused the spike.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

How my NPR colleague failed at “viewpoint diversity”

Uri Berliner gave a perfect example of the kind of journalism he says he’s against.

steveinskeep.substack.com

Here is NPR's Steve Inskeep and a response op-ed in all of this.

 

[michael hagerty]

How my NPR colleague failed at “viewpoint diversity”

Uri Berliner gave a perfect example of the kind of journalism he says he’s against.

steveinskeep.substack.com

Here is NPR's Steve Inskeep and a response op-ed in all of this.

And I think Inskeep is far better qualified than any of us to critique his co-worker and to explain what Uri got wrong (and there are some whoppers).

Thanks!

 

[michael hagerty]

Here's the thing...what does he want? Other than a kind of inchoate desire to turn the clock back to some supposedly simpler time, I can't figure it out.

This is the sort of thing I wouldn't have said publicly before I retired, but, hey....

Uri Berliner would not be the first journalist who worked for a major, trustworthy news organization to torch it and end up with a higher profile working for a far more partisan outlet. It's been going on at least since Bernie Goldberg (ex-CBS) wrote his book "Bias" 21 years ago.

Kari Lake was on TV a long time before she started letting on.

 

[Mark Roberts]

This is the sort of thing I wouldn't have said publicly before I retired, but, hey....

Uri Berliner would not be the first journalist who worked for a major, trustworthy news organization to torch it and end up with a higher profile working for a far more partisan outlet. It's been going on at least since Bernie Goldberg (ex-CBS) wrote his book "Bias" 21 years ago.

Kari Lake was on TV a long time before she started letting on.

In the case of Berliner, that would assume a degree of clarity and purpose that doesn't appear to be in evidence in what he wrote or in what he's said since. He may fall into that kind of role eventually but, to the extent that I can discern any kind of goal at all from him, that doesn't seem to be his purpose.

It makes me wonder if some personal factor is involved that's leading him to mold an interpretation of facts to support a narrative of personal grievance. (Maybe he just doesn't like the new leadership team at NPR.) If one follows that to its logical conclusion, the irony becomes mind-boggling.

 

[radiofan2023]

Kari Lake was on TV a long time before she started letting on.

She isn't the only one (not trying to derail the thread), Mark Alford who used to be at WDAF-TV, is now a U.S. representative for Missouri. From what I remember when I watched him, he didn't seem political at all. I know someone who knew Kari Lake when she went to the University of Iowa, and he's said she was just a normal college student and never talked politics.

 

[AMRadioGuy]

Young guy here. I don't listen to NPR much - I find their presentation exceptionally dry and the production lacking (yes, I know the loose sound is intentional but it drives me crazy). That said, it seems almost every time I tune in, the host is trying to link whatever the current subject is to race or climate change or wealth inequality. That is not middle of the road, unbiased coverage.

Maybe I'm unlucky in that I end up catching occasional programs talking about those things when I tune in... I suspect that's not the case.

My impression is very much that they are a left-leaning organization. Almost everyone I know that listens to NPR is left of center, and not moderately so, either.

Just my personal experience with them. Might not count for much but I thought I'd share it.