Natl. Ledger: Malloy-Larouchie connection?

[evnlee]

Re: Oh, C'mon

So when AAR offers premium memberships, Unequalizer readers are told it is a public radio-style fund drive to bail them out before the feds come and arrest everyone.

Poor Phil. Kinda reminds you of the myrmidons outside the Micheal Jackson trials holding up those signs, huh? " WE LOVE MICHEAL! MY KIDS SPEND THE NIGHT!!"

Look, let's get something straight. Why don't you 'fess up and admit that the reason the 'premium memberships' were offered at ALL was due to the inability to make this network fiscally sound within 2 years?

Show me where Rush,Hannity,Beck ( et al ) uses 'premium memberships' to cover overhead operating expenses. Answer: they DONT. They get stations to PAY THEM, and offer 'premium memberships' to make more $$$. Air America uses 'premium memberships' to go into the general fund to offset Operating Expenses.

again: Phil,Baroosk, Tom, Scribbler: Show me where Rush,Hannity,Beck ( et al ) uses 'premium memberships' to cover overhead operating expenses

if you can't do that simply, without answering my straightforward question with a 'well...but....' then we all know what the answer is.

AAR stinks and it doesn't sell very well. Not to say liberal talk can't do it, jusy not THAT brand.

Now, go soak that for awhile, it'll feel better. ;D

 

[kaufcom]

Re: Oh, C'mon

again: Phil,Baroosk, Tom, Scribbler: Show me where Rush,Hannity,Beck ( et al ) uses 'premium memberships' to cover overhead operating expenses

if you can't do that simply, without answering my straightforward question with a 'well...but....' then we all know what the answer is.

Funny you should ask. I just got a copy of the monthly P & L statement for the Rush Limbaugh Show. As you can see from the statement, Premium memberships definately contribute the operating expenses and profitabilty of the show

Premiere Radio Network​

P&L Statement​

August, 2006​

Overheard Operating Expenses​

 Oxycotin Prescriptions
 Hookers and Viagra for trip to Santo Domingo
 Cuban Cigars
 Legal Expenses
 Alimony associated with three divorces
 Studio Operations
 Salaries
 Promotional Costs

Total Overhead Operating Expenses $8,723,465

Revenue​

 Affiliate Fees
 Premium Memberships
 Advertisng

Total Revenues $7,347,896

 

[Ultimajock]

Re: Oh, C'mon

About the only successful liberal host (and some of you don't like him) was Michael Jackson with close to a 40 year run in the nation's most competitive talk radio market.

...hunh? What of Mike Malloy on WLS (their only show to beat WGN in most demos during his last book there before the ABC brass politically purged him), Tom Leykis (top talker in both Los Angeles and San Diego over KFI when he was canned in '92), Jay Marvin during his first stretch on WLS, Randi Rhodes for years in Southern Florida, Bob Lassiter on WFLA, the late Don Vogel on WISN (their morning drive numbers still haven't caught up since Jerry Bott fired him for being a liberal!) and KSTP, T.D. Mischke on KSTP...

They claim 88, although some of those really are repeaters.

...so? They're stations and they carry the show(s). I don't see you bitching out CBS for listing WJMN/Escanaba as a TV affiliate, although they do absolutely no local programming and act only as a repeater of WFRV/Green Bay...

 

[Ultimajock]

Re: Oh, C'mon

I also love this propping up public radio. Listen to most conservatives and they'll tell you nobody listens to that either, but when you put it up against AAR, the latter causes more hatred so it's better to give props to NPR. Public radio stations offer a far wider variety of talk programs, including hard news, lifestyle talk, and niche/ethnic programming. If you ask public radio people on here if they are comparable to AAR, they will tell you they are not. The only people making a different assumption are conservatives who lump the two together (carrying forward the liberal bias stereotype they have had about public radio for years).

...also note that Wisconsin Public Radio cancelled Dave Berkman and Harry Shearer in July specifically for their progressive political perspectives, and have even put pressure on me for the same reason (even though my shows are a 2-hour jazz&blues and a one-hour historical documentary series, *not* talk)...

 

[evnlee]

Re: Oh, C'mon

 Legal Expenses

considering your vast experience with legal fees, I'll take your word for it.

At least Rush can afford lawyers that WIN

 

[kaufcom]

Re: Oh, C'mon

considering your vast experience with legal fees, I'll take your word for it.

At least Rush can afford lawyers that WIN

?????????????????????????

 

[fred flintstone]

Apples and Oranges

AAR stinks and it doesn't sell very well. Not to say liberal talk can't do it, jusy not THAT brand.

At last, something I can agree with.

But if you are going to compare liberal and conservative talk radio hosts and shows, you can't compare Rush and Hannity with anybody on the liberal side. Rush and Hannity play in the major leagues of talk radio. On the national level, progressive talk radio is minor league. But so is MOST of conservative talk radio.

If you must make comparisons, compare AAR to Salem or TRN. Talk about minor league conservative hosts like Gallagher, O'Reilly, Larson, Savage and Ingraham - the who always end up on the other conservative talker.

Progressive talk radio has not yet found it's breakout star, it's killer app, it's Rush. But whoever that is, it's safe to predict it won't be somebody doing a bad immitation of Rush with a liberal spin; it will be somebody who is an original.

 

[dampier]

Re: Oh, C'mon

Poor Phil. Kinda reminds you of the myrmidons outside the Micheal Jackson trials holding up those signs, huh? " WE LOVE MICHEAL! MY KIDS SPEND THE NIGHT!!"

Wow... this nonsensical thought is so far off the map Rand-McNally couldn't find it.

Look, let's get something straight. Why don't you 'fess up and admit that the reason the 'premium memberships' were offered at ALL was due to the inability to make this network fiscally sound within 2 years?

False premise #1: Air America uses premium memberships as a fund drive. That one was dismissed several months ago when the topic first came up. Nobody at AAR represented premium memberships as a way to keep Air America solvent. Stop reading the blogs for your news. The premium memberships are another profit source for a COMMERCIAL business enterprise. It always amuses me that people like you seem to have a problem with progressive shops making money while conservative talk, which is also a business, gets a free pass. It tells me that actual facts aren't terribly important to you.

False premise #2: Air America uses premium memberships to go into the general fund to offset operating expenses to stay in business. And you would know this how? Air America is a private company and does not release its financials. It is entirely your personal speculation that these memberships are somehow propping the network up, and you've produced no evidence to the contrary. Is it a revenue stream? Of course - the same kind of stream dozens of other talk shows covering the entire political spectrum use.

False premise #3: Conservative talk shows don't use premium memberships to cover overhead operating expenses and stations pay to carry Rush, Hannity, and Beck. Again, show us the evidence that the premium membership funds do not actually go into any operating expenses and instead, presumably, go directly into the pockets of the talent. I won't be holding my breath for that. Although Rush Limbaugh's show does require upfront payments, I've seen no evidence that Hannity isn't a typical barter-style show, and Glenn Beck wouldn't be on radio today if every station that carries his show paid him. The vast majority of radio talk shows are provided free of charge to stations on a barter basis. Rush has succeeded in having strong enough ratings that he can demand more, although looking at places like Baltimore, where his primary station booted him, the glory days may be ending.

False premise #4: AAR is a failure because it has not made a profit in two years. This one demonstrates you don't know much about broadcasting in general. Or business. Ask Fox News how many millions they lost for years when they first started out.

 

[fred flintstone]

Phil, in all fairness, a premise without evidence is not "false." It is neither true nor false. It is unsubstantiated.

Nobody at AAR represented premium memberships as a way to keep Air America solvent.

That does not mean it was not an attempt to keep AAR afloat. And silence is not a denial (nor an admission).

You ask people how they know an assertion is true and demand evidence, yet you offer no evidence that the assertion is not true.

And topics are not dismissed just because you dispute an assertion and declare the topic dismissed.

Reasonable inference: The leading conservative talk programs (and stations) are doing better financially than AAR. More cume. More spots. Higher rates. More money. AAR's financial may be on a par with the second and third string conservative talkers.

I haven't seen AAR's books; unless I miss my guess, neither have you. Press releases are not credible evidence (ask any working reporter). IMHO: Whatever the motive, AAR's bumper sticker membership drive was a cheesy move and made them look desperate. Rush selling premium membership gift subscriptions for GI's was also cheesy (maybe even more cheesy because - inference - he probably doesn't need the money and neither does Clear Channel).

 

[evnlee]

Re: Oh, C'mon

Poor Phil. Kinda reminds you of the myrmidons outside the Micheal Jackson trials holding up those signs, huh? " WE LOVE MICHEAL! MY KIDS SPEND THE NIGHT!!"

Wow... this nonsensical thought is so far off the map Rand-McNally couldn't find it.

Look, let's get something straight. Why don't you 'fess up and admit that the reason the 'premium memberships' were offered at ALL was due to the inability to make this network fiscally sound within 2 years?

False premise #1: Air America uses premium memberships as a fund drive. That one was dismissed several months ago when the topic first came up. Nobody at AAR represented premium memberships as a way to keep Air America solvent. Stop reading the blogs for your news. The premium memberships are another profit source for a COMMERCIAL business enterprise. It always amuses me that people like you seem to have a problem with progressive shops making money while conservative talk, which is also a business, gets a free pass. It tells me that actual facts aren't terribly important to you.

False premise #2: Air America uses premium memberships to go into the general fund to offset operating expenses to stay in business. And you would know this how? Air America is a private company and does not release its financials. It is entirely your personal speculation that these memberships are somehow propping the network up, and you've produced no evidence to the contrary. Is it a revenue stream? Of course - the same kind of stream dozens of other talk shows covering the entire political spectrum use.

False premise #3: Conservative talk shows don't use premium memberships to cover overhead operating expenses and stations pay to carry Rush, Hannity, and Beck. Again, show us the evidence that the premium membership funds do not actually go into any operating expenses and instead, presumably, go directly into the pockets of the talent. I won't be holding my breath for that. Although Rush Limbaugh's show does require upfront payments, I've seen no evidence that Hannity isn't a typical barter-style show, and Glenn Beck wouldn't be on radio today if every station that carries his show paid him. The vast majority of radio talk shows are provided free of charge to stations on a barter basis. Rush has succeeded in having strong enough ratings that he can demand more, although looking at places like Baltimore, where his primary station booted him, the glory days may be ending.

False premise #4: AAR is a failure because it has not made a profit in two years. This one demonstrates you don't know much about broadcasting in general. Or business. Ask Fox News how many millions they lost for years when they first started out.

Phil : read this from About.com/radio:

http://radio.about.com/od/airamericaradio/a/aa092905a_2.htm

"Which brings me to the crux of this article: What’s the deal with Air America Radio asking for listener donations? Their website declares “Air America Wants You!” and is suggesting listeners become “Air America Associates”

Besides National Public Radio, the only other prominent radio entity which is listener supported belongs to the Pacifica Radio Foundation whose five radio stations have been operating that way for 50 years. But, they're also not-for-profit.

Air America Radio is for profit and although it has the right to ask listeners to chip in, it just seems to me if you're going to be a player, you best act like one. The Air America Radio staff can defend it anyway they like. But, on the surface, it looks desperate.

I don’t have access to the network’s financial reports so I don’t know how much money they have or what their debts are. But, it doesn’t take a genius to at least wonder if something isn’t wrong in that department.

I do cherish the idea of having plenty of diverse voices on the airwaves. Free speech is one of the cornerstones of our society and balance keeps the ideological bullies in check – on both sides.


Keep tryin, Phil

 

[evnlee]

Phil, in all fairness, a premise without evidence is not "false." It is neither true nor false. It is unsubstantiated.

Nobody at AAR represented premium memberships as a way to keep Air America solvent.

That does not mean it was not an attempt to keep AAR afloat. And silence is not a denial (nor an admission).

You ask people how they know an assertion is true and demand evidence, yet you offer no evidence that the assertion is not true.

And topics are not dismissed just because you dispute an assertion and declare the topic dismissed.

Reasonable inference: The leading conservative talk programs (and stations) are doing better financially than AAR. More cume. More spots. Higher rates. More money. AAR's financial may be on a par with the second and third string conservative talkers.

I haven't seen AAR's books; unless I miss my guess, neither have you. Press releases are not credible evidence (ask any working reporter). IMHO: Whatever the motive, AAR's bumper sticker membership drive was a cheesy move and made them look desperate. Rush selling premium membership gift subscriptions for GI's was also cheesy (maybe even more cheesy because - inference - he probably doesn't need the money and neither does Clear Channel).

well stated FF.

 

[kaufcom]

Re: Oh, C'mon

Let me see if I understand your point.

If you are $500 hooker its okay, but if you turn tricks for $50 a pop then your pandering

"Which brings me to the crux of this article: What’s the deal with Air America Radio asking for listener donations? Their website declares “Air America Wants You!” and is suggesting listeners become “Air America Associates”

Besides National Public Radio, the only other prominent radio entity which is listener supported belongs to the Pacifica Radio Foundation whose five radio stations have been operating that way for 50 years. But, they're also not-for-profit.

Air America Radio is for profit and although it has the right to ask listeners to chip in, it just seems to me if you're going to be a player, you best act like one. The Air America Radio staff can defend it anyway they like. But, on the surface, it looks desperate.

I don’t have access to the network’s financial reports so I don’t know how much money they have or what their debts are. But, it doesn’t take a genius to at least wonder if something isn’t wrong in that department.

I do cherish the idea of having plenty of diverse voices on the airwaves. Free speech is one of the cornerstones of our society and balance keeps the ideological bullies in check – on both sides.


Keep tryin, Phil

 

[evnlee]

Re: Oh, C'mon

Let me see if I understand your point.

If you are $500 hooker its okay, but if you turn tricks for $50 a pop then your pandering

No that's called 'peddling'.

500$ hooker=Rush
50$ hooker=Air America

you get the same thing, basically, but there's a big difference in the personal service and and the 'professionalism' between the 2!

 

[fred flintstone]

Re: Oh, C'mon

Let me see if I understand your point.

If you are $500 hooker its okay, but if you turn tricks for $50 a pop then your pandering

At the $50 level, they are hookers.
At the $500 level, they are a call girls.
$50,000 a year and up is a mistress.
Payment at any level, but no tricks, is an ex.
Payment at any level with tricks possible but not guaranteed is a date.
Payment at any level with any tricks out-sourced is marriage.

Working in radio is most like being a hooker since it involves pandering and low pay.

AAR went from three bumper stickers for $50, or three bumper stickers and a tote bag for a $100.00 to "SuperPass" for all programs (audio archives and podcasts) for a year for $69.00 (any one program for $49.95). The first offer has almost no value (you pay them to put an ad for their business on your car; the second one does provide value (although it's more than I would be willing to pay).

 

[dampier]

Nobody at AAR represented premium memberships as a way to keep Air America solvent.

That does not mean it was not an attempt to keep AAR afloat. And silence is not a denial (nor an admission).

Please... I didn't realize yoga class had started with the logic twists. AAR is hardly going to respond to accusations made in a right wing blog. If someone wants to make an accusation, it is on them to prove it, not for the target to disprove it.

You ask people how they know an assertion is true and demand evidence, yet you offer no evidence that the assertion is not true.

So you are asking me to prove a negative. Prove to me that AAR is not bankrupt and on its last legs, and if you cannot, we are supposed to assume that a wild charge like that automatically carries some weight. So sorry... not in this forum. If someone makes an assertion, they need to be prepared to back it up with facts, when requested. If those facts are not forthcoming (or we get this Shiny Keys logic yoga twist), we can rightly dismiss it as yet more nonsense. You can use the word "unsubstantiated" if you like, but if you use any of it as a premise to launch an argument and draw conclusions, expect the premise itself to be challenged.

As has been the case for more than two years now, the vast majority of anti-AAR bile in here has been built on a foundation of unsubstantiated speculation, unnamed/fake sources, and in the case of one failed radio talk show host turned blogger - lies from a guy with such nerve, he's willing to post proof that contains nothing of the sort in hopes nobody will actually check it out.

And topics are not dismissed just because you dispute an assertion and declare the topic dismissed.

I've got the power. I am the Dismisser. Seriously, if you want to play in the SpecUplex, feel free, but that's your credibility at risk, not mine.

I haven't seen AAR's books; unless I miss my guess, neither have you. Press releases are not credible evidence (ask any working reporter). IMHO: Whatever the motive, AAR's bumper sticker membership drive was a cheesy move and made them look desperate. Rush selling premium membership gift subscriptions for GI's was also cheesy (maybe even more cheesy because - inference - he probably doesn't need the money and neither does Clear Channel).

Where this all falls apart is the fact you are replying to me with this fact instead of the guy who made the original accusations claiming some apparent inside knowledge of the internal machinations of AAR. Your bias is showing.

 

[dampier]

Re: Oh, C'mon

Phil : read this from About.com/radio:

http://radio.about.com/od/airamericaradio/a/aa092905a_2.htm

This is your proof? A columnist on a website that has no direct involvement in AAR in any way? This guy knows as much about AAR as anyone else in here, except he writes it on a website bloated with pop-up ads and other screen clutter.

I don’t have access to the network’s financial reports so I don’t know how much money they have or what their debts are. But, it doesn’t take a genius to at least wonder if something isn’t wrong in that department.

It certainly doesn't. It takes a guy who is ideologically opposed to the politics of the programs on AAR to look for morsels or tidbits to back up his own desire to see liberal talk fail as a concept. Your high-minded essay about diversity of the airwaves is belied by your many other posts in here as well as in Off the Air. Your Brian Lamb impression in here doesn't mesh with your "Michael Savage" routine everywhere else.

But I appreciate you folding on the primary point of this part of the thread - that AAR uses premium memberships to pay off debt, something even you now admit you don't have any proof of.

 

[evnlee]

Re: Oh, C'mon

It certainly doesn't. It takes a guy who is ideologically opposed to the politics of the programs on AAR to look for morsels or tidbits to back up his own desire to see liberal talk fail as a concept. Your high-minded essay about diversity of the airwaves is belied by your many other posts in here as well as in Off the Air. Your Brian Lamb impression in here doesn't mesh with your "Michael Savage" routine everywhere else.

Sorry, Phil. The author of the article is none other than Corey Deitz, who has written articles praising AAR in the early days :

http://radio.about.com/od/airamericaradio/a/aa060904a.htm

The website is called 'About.Com' . Since he is no longer fellating AAR, now we get to see you slam the site. :

When they do something right, he tells it. When they screw up he does as well. Your problem is that you dont like the fact that a radio 'expert' said he thought the AAR fund rasing drive looked 'cheesy'.

Poor Phil. I bet he's got all those old 'XFL' jerseys in the closet, too

 

[fred flintstone]

As has been the case for more than two years now, the vast majority of anti-AAR bile in here has been built on a foundation of unsubstantiated speculation, unnamed/fake sources, and in the case of one failed radio talk show host turned blogger - lies from a guy with such nerve, he's willing to post proof that contains nothing of the sort in hopes nobody will actually check it out.

I understand you used to have a talk show, too. Does that mean you are also a "failed radio talk show host" and therefore we should not believe anything you say either?

You demand evidence (while providing none) but no source is good enough. John Mainelli. David Hinckley. Now, Corey Deitz. Everybody is biased but you.

Where this all falls apart is the fact you are replying to me with this fact instead of the guy who made the original accusations claiming some apparent inside knowledge of the internal machinations of AAR. Your bias is showing.

Replying to your posts is now an indication of bias?

OK, have it your way. AAR is making money hand over fist. Despite flea bite stations, poor to terrible Arbitron numbers, huge start up costs, management turn-over and bottom-feeder advertisers, the money is rolling in too fast to count. The bumper sticker thing was really a Junior Achievement project for Rob Glaser's kid. In fact, so much money is coming in that Air America Radio has a huge tax liability and some senior managements are starting to favor tax cuts for the rich. AAR has also bought the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club and is having kids make cheap clothing for sale in Wal-Mart stores as an after-school recreational activity (it's a sewing contest).

Happy now?

 

[evnlee]

OK, have it your way. AAR is making money hand over fist. Despite flea bite stations, poor to terrible Arbitron numbers, huge start up costs, management turn-over and bottom-feeder advertisers, the money is rolling in too fast to count. The bumper sticker thing was really a Junior Achievement project for Rob Glaser's kid. In fact, so much money is coming in that Air America Radio has a huge tax liability and some senior managements are starting to favor tax cuts for the rich. AAR has also bought the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club and is having kids make cheap clothing for sale in Wal-Mart stores as an after-school recreational activity (it's a sewing contest).

Happy now?

Ouch! Game, Set, match!

 

[kaufcom]

Re: Oh, C'mon

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