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Need Schematic / Manual for Hnat Hindes CP2013 Composite Processor

R

RadioMan203

OK folks, you were able to give me a hand on a needed schematic before - let's see if you can pull my backside out of the fire this time.

I have a Hnat-Hindes CP-2013 composite processor that I'm looking to put into service. Steve Hnat passed away a long time ago and the company that took over the product line doesn't have a schematic for this long discontinued product. If you have the schematic and any alignment info please feel free to let me know. It would be most appreciated.
 
I have the alignment procedure and schematic for the cp-2013 comproc.
It took me a while to figure out some parts of it!

I only have the schematic on paper,no pdf file,so i will have to do a scan of it and send it to you.
Pm me your email address.

Paul.
 
Bill DeFelice said:
OK folks, you were able to give me a hand on a needed schematic before - let's see if you can pull my backside out of the fire this time.

I have a Hnat-Hindes CP-2013 composite processor that I'm looking to put into service. Steve Hnat passed away a long time ago and the company that took over the product line doesn't have a schematic for this long discontinued product. If you have the schematic and any alignment info please feel free to let me know. It would be most appreciated.
Click to expand...

Bill:
I don't have a drawing, but if it's what I think it is, it's a monster. :eek:

Some time in the late 80s or early 90s, when I was CE at Z100, the guys at Hot 97 put in a composite processor that was just wildly processed-sounding.

We were wondering just what the heck that could be on their audio....the L+R sounded pretty normal. Anyway, I was really curious as to just what it was I was hearing ... so I hooked up our mod monitor's speakers out of phase, flipped over to 97.1, and, lo and behold, the L-R was REALLY compressed, with an extremely fast release time. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was the H-H.

Don't forget to share if you find the schematic. ;)

Kind Regards,
David
 
Thanks to Paul, I have the schematic and alignment info regarding the CP2013. There's a couple different revisions of this unit so I've made a couple of queries to Broadcast Technology, the folks who took over the product line after Steve Hnat passed away.

Here's a link to the PDF I created with all the info:

http://download.yousendit.com/2783DFB14D45CFF9

Thanks again to member BROADCAST (Paul) for supplying this info. The PDF includes the schematic, alignment info and my correspondence with replies.

David: I think I met you back when you were at the Z. I had been the secretary and newsletter coordinator of SBE Chapter 15 back in the late 80's when they were meeting at the Times Auditorium.

Best,
Bill
 
Hi Bill,
Yes my unit is an early version,and it does have the piggy backed board with a few components on it,and the screening and holes for components that are not loaded.

This early version went with the Ultramod classic processor(UM-2000).
The UM-2001 processor had a smart clipper as one of the main upgrades over the older UM-2000.

I also have the manual for the UM-2000,with all the alignment info,but i have 3 out of 5 schematics for it,one missing being the mpx o/p sections,i schetched that out when i repaired mine,this info came from BT.
If i remember right a helpful chap called Chuck at BT sent me the info.
 
I remember being intrroduced to the Hnat Hindes gear when a fellow engineer used it at a station in Stamford Connecticut. I was lucky enough to bet introduced to Steve Hnat and he even recommended me for a contract job at a station in Massachusetts (which I didn't take due to the long commute from my home in Southern Connecticut). He had some pretty good products and I was saddened to hear of his passing.

The CP2013 works pretty well and I'm sure it will work even better once I get it aligned properly.
 
David Reaves said:
Some time in the late 80s or early 90s, when I was CE at Z100, the guys at Hot 97 put in a composite processor that was just wildly processed-sounding.

We were wondering just what the heck that could be on their audio....the L+R sounded pretty normal. Anyway, I was really curious as to just what it was I was hearing ... so I hooked up our mod monitor's speakers out of phase, flipped over to 97.1, and, lo and behold, the L-R was REALLY compressed, with an extremely fast release time. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was the H-H.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like they were using a cranked up StereoMaxx.
 
Another thought... maybe they were using FMX?

From Wikipedia:
"Developed at the CBS Technology Center, FMX was intended to improve [FM Stereo's noise penalty over mono FM] for listeners in the fringe areas where the noise penalty would be worst. This improvement was achieved by adding an amplitude-compressed version of the L-R (left-minus-right, or difference) signal modulated in quadrature with the stereo subcarrier, using a version of the CX noise reduction system originally developed at CBS for LP records. ... With about 50 stations using the technology and perhaps another 50 committed, a controversy emerged in 1989 when MIT professor and Bose Corporation CEO Amar Bose and Bose engineer William Short released a critical study, finding the system to have the potential to 'seriously degrade the quality of stereo reception whether received by FMX equipment or not.' According to the study, the heavy compression of the L-R audio caused interference in receivers under multipath conditions."
 
Kevin Tekel said:
David Reaves said:
Some time in the late 80s or early 90s, when I was CE at Z100, the guys at Hot 97 put in a composite processor that was just wildly processed-sounding.

We were wondering just what the heck that could be on their audio....the L+R sounded pretty normal. Anyway, I was really curious as to just what it was I was hearing ... so I hooked up our mod monitor's speakers out of phase, flipped over to 97.1, and, lo and behold, the L-R was REALLY compressed, with an extremely fast release time. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was the H-H.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like they were using a cranked up StereoMaxx.
Click to expand...
Kevin:
I don't think so. A Stereomaxx doesn't use compression. And what I heard was *much* more aggressive than FMX. I guess the simplest solution would be for me to just ask Jim McGivern.
:)

Kind Regards,
David
 
David

I don't think it was the Hnat Hindes. I have one of these and it cannot process audio like that. It has a high speed limiter that will crunch a db or two over the entire envelope followed by a standard composite clipper and that is all. AFAIK, there is no way to process the sum and difference thru seperate gain sections in this box. It was basically the first composite *limiter* that worked before digital look ahead.

HOWEVER

The added compression of FMX coupled by the limiting and clipping in this composite processor could probably create that effect.
 
I believe David is quite right on this. Take a look at a direct quote from the CP-2013 docs:

When accurate AGC is introduced within the composite domain the algebraic
sum and difference becomes exaggerated so that the receiver demodulator
reconstructs a bigger stereo image. This bigger stereo image is the desirable
result. Moreover stronger L-R AND L+R components can greatly improve fringe
coverage. This is primarily the result of a more reliable phase lock in the receiver
demodulator. By this analogy the use of composite AGC does not “restrict” the
audio, but broadens the stereo image. This only “fly in the ointment’ is the
requirement that the AGC be one of exceptional transparency.

I had used a Stereomaxx before and while it allows the enhanced stereo imaging via adding delayed L-r into the signal, there are no gain riding elements inside the box. Given the description of CP2013 I would tend to lean in the direction of this is the type of processor David heard.
 
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