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Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
We are looking at feeding a talk program to around 5 affiliates. We are thinking of delivery via IP. I know some more qualified engineers than me have been faced with this problem. Please give me some suggestions on how this should be done .
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
I use Barix boxes and I am currently running shows from 5 different networks. Depending on your needs, they have models that can do audio only, or with contact closures. One Barix Instreamer can stream to (i think) 32 Exstreamer boxes. So get a static IP address at your studio and setup an Instreamer. Then, buy an Exstreamer for each affiliate and program them to pull audio from your Instreamer at the studio. As long as you have a good internet connection, they work great.
We run them for local sports shows, multiple different college football teams, a Spanish music format, and I'm adding another Barix network next week. I use the Barix Exstreamer 500 to send audio and relay closures for a talk show that is in a different city.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
If you're going to use IP, be very sure that you have ample bandwidth at both ends. We recently setup a pair of Barix boxes here for a station and had all kinds of issues. Barix boxes are pretty easy to use and they can work well, but the buffer in a Barix box is pretty small compared to a typical PC, so there's a lot less margin for network errors in a Barix than someone using a PC. This is not a complaint about Barix. Rather it's more about the network.
The client had sucessfully used the Barix boxes as an STL for two years during which time they had been rock solid over a 1/2 mile long DSL Internet connection. When the station changed transmitter sites to a new one atop a downtown building, the owner also went from DSL to cable. Huge mistake.
Even at the "24 megabit" speed, the highest offered by Cox Cable, the dropouts were horrific. This happened mainly in the afternoons. It's easy to tell when everyone is surfing the Web in the downtown offices. At first, we had the audio setup at 44.1k with a quality of 5, but noticed huge dropouts every few minutes. Next we tried 32k audio at a quality of 4. That was better during some times of the day, but they were still dropping out for 30 seconds every minute or two during some dayparts, especially mid-mornings and afternoons. We ended up setting them to something like 11k mono with a quality of 1 which reduced the downtime to 15 seconds every 10 or 15 minutes, but sounds awful. No, I take that back. It's not that even up to the standards of awful. After a couple of days, the owner ordered up 6meg DSL and we were able to get the audio up to 32k with a quality of 3. It still sounds poor, but it's way better than it was on the cable modem. They do still have some droputs during peak traffic times, though.
Remember that when services state a capcity, that's an average, not a minimum. They can drop you down to nothing as long as they make it up later.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
AirLink TX & RX
PC based and solid as a rock. I use it to feed my 3 stations. Never an issue with the software. 5 years I've been using it and it is extremely stable. It uses the Windows Media engine which has a larger buffer than mp3 based codex so there is much less chance of buffering issues in the case of internet burps.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
Thanks everybody for the info. Please keep it coming. As for our internet connection we have on the upload side a T1, around 1.5 meg and cable with around 4 meg upload speed. Both seem solid.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
We syndicate a show in this manner. We use an ISDN loop to get the audio to Citadel and buy time on their satellite network. Affiliates get it via an old starguide. It has been very reliable and the satellite time is pretty cheap.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
I've used Winamp running Shoutcast DSP 1.8.0 feeding a 'private' Shoutcast server with a capacity of 5 to 10 slots available for program distribution.
Winamp doesn't necessarily have to be used. Icecast will work. Even a Barix Instreamer will work.
All the receiving end needs is a PC/Mac that can play Shoutcast streams (or a Barix Exstreamer. . hi hi )
If you don't have the resources to host your own Shoutcast server, there's a bunch of affordable Shoutcast hosting solutions out there that will work.
The Shoutcast server being off site provides a 'safety buffer' of sorts.
We use the above method to do live music remotes with varying degrees of success. A laptop at the remote side with a (hopefully decent) broadband connection available sends a Shoutcast stream to our private Shoutcast server. In turn, our automation system (Zararadio) will pull the audio from said Shoutcast server for broadcast over the air. Running around 96 kBps results in a latency of about 20 to 25 seconds. Not too shabby for on the cheap remote broadcasting.
I'll second the Barix equipment though. We use an Instreamer for our primary stream and an Instreamer/Exstreamer combo for a remote studio feed that requires lower latency.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
I'm using the Tieline Bridge IT codecs. A bit more pricey than the Barix, but it's bi-directional so if you ever need a backhaul or IFB it's already set to do that. Minimal delay compared to the Barix, as well as the ability to adapt to changing net conditions. They will even step UP the bitrate if the link is good.
Have been using them to feed a noncomm translator with no dropouts at all. Switched from a Barix. Delay has gone down from a few seconds to about 3/4 of a second.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
The maximum buffer in a Barix is 64K. When I did customer support for them, I always recommended DSL over cable (T1 is best) and also that if possible you use the same ISP on both ends-that way the stream stays within their WAN and doesn't go onto the public Internet.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
I wished the Tieline and Comrex boys would offer a larger buffer option for their units. There's some of us that could care less if audio was 30 seconds late, as long as it didn't drop out. A long buffer can fix many issues if the system is built right to utilize it.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
We've done something similar to mattthepm, except all open source. To feed 1 or 2 stations we put Darkice and Icecast on the same PC, running centos. For larger events we lease time on an icecast server in a colo site and use darkice to encode. The 128 Kb stream sounds as good as a Zephyr and the whole thing is doable on throw-away PC's. it's a fraction of the cost.
As discussed earlier, there is a delay associated with buffering. That may or may not be something you can handle with your programming, but it means fewer dropouts. You can also control the buffer size in Icecast to adjust for your IP path.
Re: Need Suggestion on feeding program to several stations
We have used Comcast and Uverse. We have both. If I could get the Netgear Dual Wan to configure properly I would use it.
We are 600 feet from the telco CO and the new uber uverse offers 24m down and 3m up.(Up to I mean). I read a Comcast report from 2008 that they offered up to 15 down and 5 up. When they inherited Insight here or speeds decreased. Well below 10 down and maybe 1 up on speakeasy.
We used to have all the Barix on Comcast but moved it to ATT because the service has been more reliable. We keep it for backup.
The nice thing about Barix Reflector is I can always identify the areas we have issues with the internet. Some sites are ALWAYS UP rock solid. I check my email several times a day to see who has been having issues. Buffers are set to max. It would be nice to buffer for 30 seconds. We would never have issues. Initially our station near Marion IN would have "CD skipping sounds" and then we set the buffer to max. No more notes of this. Being in radio I want no delay. In the real world this isn't the best way to do this.
We have 2 Instreamers feeding I think 25 exstreamers. Look at these boxes. No computer, no hard drive, resets when the power goes away. Just added one at a site where the only internet is WISP.
My biggest problem is the growing pile of units that have lost software. I have one that I bought new and never has worked. I tried many things but no support for this. The seller keeps laying blame on the manufacturer. Serial rescue hasnt fixed it.
Has anyone tried a Gold Rescue and does it really work?
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