Neilsen Schmeilsen

[Element9]

http://ratings.****************/cgi-bin/rol.exe/arb037 Something other than a deadwood AM station to revive this moribund board.

Worst book in a while for Jack. Town Square bought a jingle package for the station. The money might have been better used to hire a live body, maybe a 40 something who knows a thing or two about three decades of music and the people who listen to it. Or is the music Jack's problem? WJYE isn't lighting the world on fire. The new morning host imported from Smallbany is getting rave reviews from Silver and company, probably because she costs about a quarter of the previous morning show, but the show sounds listless. Star looks like the peoples' choice for Hot AC. 97 Rock gets bested by WHTT? Listeners re-discover a music radio station operating on 107.7, which may have taken listeners away from Jack as well as the Edge, which is flat. The morning show carries the Edge.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't know...the thing that stands out to me in the 6+ numbers is the revival of WBEN. What happened there? Once the Bills season appeared to be over, the GR listeners seemed to tune over to BEN.

 

[Unregistered]

The "revival" of WBEN stands out.

LOL...right...

But not the revival of WYRK and WBLK...

Maybe the Bills listeners tuned into WBEN, but why is that shocking? If you are going to put another station on, it would probably be one of the top stations in the area, the 3 above.

 

[flybynight]

I don't know...the thing that stands out to me in the 6+ numbers is the revival of WBEN. What happened there? Once the Bills season appeared to be over, the GR listeners seemed to tune over to BEN.

Revival? LOL

I was about to start a ratings thread that highlighted how WBEN had yet another book that is waaay down from where they normally are at this time of year. You don't look book-to-book as much as you look winter-winter, spring-to-spring, etc.

Up until the last 2 years, WBEN was hitting double-digits most of the year, especially in the Fall & Winter, usually due to weather concerns, etc. The last 2 years, they've been down in every quarter, year-to-year. What makes this past winter book falling short even more noteworthy, is that the weather was much worse than usual---even for Buffalo.

Additionally, with the higher than normal amount of school closings and threats of school closings this past winter, WBEN really should have had a nice bump winter-to winter, since schools in the metro literally tell parents on their websites, etc. to listen to WBEN for the latest school closing info. As dumb as it sounds, many don't even post that info on their own school district websites---they literally send you to WBEN! But still, WBEN had a lower than normal winter book....again, even with that added advantage.

I can almost guarantee you the suits at 500 Corporate Pkwy aren't as excited about this book as BigA.

 

[TheBigA]

I can almost guarantee you the suits at 500 Corporate Pkwy aren't as excited about this book as BigA.

I think they're as aware as I am that the days of double digit shares for an AM talk station are over.

School systems may still be in the stone age, but their employees and students aren't. Employees get school closing info by text, and I'm sure the students have figured something out.

 

[flybynight]

I think they're as aware as I am that the days of double digit shares for an AM talk station are over.

Perhaps, but they've seen an almost across-the-board year-to-year drop of 15-20% in the last 2 years. That's a lot.

School systems may still be in the stone age, but their employees and students aren't. Employees get school closing info by text, and I'm sure the students have figured something out.

You're sure? That's convenient lol

Regardless, the numbers are with the parents, who outnumber teachers roughly 25:1. The parents are told to go to WBEN for closings. This happened A LOT this winter.

Even if this winter's weather was normal, their year-to-year numebrs are still way down in a pretty short amount of time....and this is NOT a ppm market. If PPM shows up, it'll be pretty ugly.

 

[TheBigA]

Regardless, the numbers are with the parents, who outnumber teachers roughly 25:1. The parents are told to go to WBEN for closings. This happened A LOT this winter.

Are you telling me that the local TV stations didn't broadcast school closings? In my town, all of the local TV stations scroll closings on their main channel and on their web sites. AM Radio doesn't have a monopoly on information, regardless of what the school system does.

 

[flybynight]

Are you telling me that the local TV stations didn't broadcast school closings? In my town, all of the local TV stations scroll closings on their main channel and on their web sites. AM Radio doesn't have a monopoly on information, regardless of what the school system does.

I'm telling you that the school districts themselves direct parents, not to any old radio station or any TV station, but specifically to WBEN. How much of an advantage is that? I don't know, but it sure doesn't hurt. The fact remains, WBEN's numbers are down at a time of year where they usually peak in double digits, cracking an 11 share, even a 12 in recent years.---and that's for a normal winter.

In one of the worst winters in a long time, they barely cracked a 9 share. You call this a revival. I call it trouble in them thar hills.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm telling you that the school districts themselves direct parents, not to any old radio station or any TV station, but specifically to WBEN. How much of an advantage is that?

Let's be realistic here. If I'm a 35 year old parent of school-aged kids, my TV set is always on in the mornings, not an AM radio. I want to SEE the snow. Ratings for TV morning shows were up over 30% this year. Probably higher in Buffalo. The Weather Channel alone reported an increase of 13% this winter. If the weather is bad, I'm not in my car. That's probably the only thing I own with an AM radio. WBEN's 6+ numbers were up a full point in the winter book. That's as much as they can expect, given the reality that there are lots of other ways for people to find out school closings. Times have changed.

 

[flybynight]

Let's be realistic here. If I'm a 35 year old parent of school-aged kids, my TV set is always on in the mornings, not an AM radio. I want to SEE the snow. Ratings for TV morning shows were up over 30% this year. Probably higher in Buffalo. The Weather Channel alone reported an increase of 13% this winter. If the weather is bad, I'm not in my car. That's probably the only thing I own with an AM radio. WBEN's 6+ numbers were up a full point in the winter book. That's as much as they can expect, given the reality that there are lots of other ways for people to find out school closings. Times have changed.

If it makes you happy, pretend they got ZERO advantage whatsoever from having all parents instructed to LISTEN TO WBEN throughout the winter. lol

You think they've been revived because they went up .8 from Fall to Winter. Fact is, they usually go up more than that, peaking in Winter at substantially higher numbers. But what they have done repeatedly over the last 2 years is drop 15-20% in corresponding year-to-year quarterly books.

The year is cyclical, which is why the year-to-year trends are more indicative of a stations health than quarter-to-quarter.

If this was an earnings report for a stock, this "revival" you speak of would've driven the price down.

 

[TheBigA]

If it makes you happy, pretend they got ZERO advantage whatsoever from having all parents instructed to LISTEN TO WBEN throughout the winter. lol

I come from three generations of educators. You can instruct parents to do whatever you want. They don't listen. They never have, and they've gotten worse. Especially when you're telling them to do something they don't have to do. They don't have to listen to AM radio, because there are so many other alternatives. As I said, for most parents of school aged children, the only AM radio they own is in the car. I'm sorry to break it to you, but my cell phone is my alarm, not a clock radio. However, if you notice, both WYRK and WBLK also experienced 1 point increases in the winter, and I imagine they both aired school closings to their audiences.

Those of us who work in radio have gotten used to the fact that we don't have an exclusive on information anymore. To act like we do is laughable.

 

[flybynight]

I come from three generations of educators. You can instruct parents to do whatever you want. They don't listen. They never have, and they've gotten worse. Especially when you're telling them to do something they don't have to do. They don't have to listen to AM radio, because there are so many other alternatives. As I said, for most parents of school aged children, the only AM radio they own is in the car. I'm sorry to break it to you, but my cell phone is my alarm, not a clock radio. However, if you notice, both WYRK and WBLK also experienced 1 point increases in the winter, and I imagine they both aired school closings to their audiences.

Those of us who work in radio have gotten used to the fact that we don't have an exclusive on information anymore. To act like we do is laughable.

You of course ignored the overall point: WBEN over the last 2 years has continued to suffer sizable year-to-year quarterly losses, irrespective to season.

The .8 increase from Fall to Winter is almost meaningless, considering they typically get a bigger kick between those 2 seasons. The numbers across the board are down 20% from just 2 years ago. That is significant and cannot be blamed on ppm.

 

[TheBigA]

You of course ignored the overall point: WBEN over the last 2 years has continued to suffer sizable year-to-year quarterly losses, irrespective to season.

I haven't ignored it at all. What they're experiencing is endemic of AM radio nationwide. The fact that they're still the #2 station in town is an absolute amazement, because there are loads of cities, like Washington DC, where there are no AM stations at all in the Top 10. The heritage helps, the morning news staff helps, the free promotion from the school system helps, but all the things going against it will begin to take their toll. This station will not be getting better. The past won't be coming back. If I can hear the music I like, plus get the information I need, then why do I need to listen to an AM talk station? Add to that the ongoing growth of morning TV, and you start to get the picture.

 

[flybynight]

I haven't ignored it at all. What they're experiencing is endemic of AM radio nationwide. The fact that they're still the #2 station in town is an absolute amazement, because there are loads of cities, like Washington DC, where there are no AM stations at all in the Top 10. The heritage helps, the morning news staff helps, the free promotion from the school system helps, but all the things going against it will begin to take their toll. This station will not be getting better. The past won't be coming back. If I can hear the music I like, plus get the information I need, then why do I need to listen to an AM talk station? Add to that the ongoing growth of morning TV, and you start to get the picture.

Actually, WTOP is #1 and the format on FM is the same as it was on AM, but doing a few rankings better. And WMAL is #9.

One of the several reasons AM stations are suffering has to do with echo-chamber fatigue. And that's their own fault, not Apple's.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Numerous school districts in Western New York use direct email blasts, their websites and texts to inform parents and students of school closings, delays and emergencies. Each year, more districts resort to this technology to disseminate information. Radio excels when the cell towers and network are down and the pipeline is plugged, but the days of radio being the primary source of information are decreasing. Local TV stations provide near immediate school closings and updates by way of 'crawls' at the bottom of the screen.

 

[TheBigA]

Actually, WTOP is #1 and the format on FM is the same as it was on AM, but doing a few rankings better. And WMAL is #9.

FYI: WMAL is now an AM/FM simulcast, not AM only.

.

One of the several reasons AM stations are suffering has to do with echo-chamber fatigue. And that's their own fault, not Apple's.

Nowhere in this thread have I said the word "Apple" or even brought up things like iPods or other music sources. AM Radio has no shortage of competition from FM and TV. The days of an AM radio station having an exclusive on school closings are over.

 

[flybynight]

FYI: WMAL is now an AM/FM simulcast, not AM only.

The band isn't even relevant in this discussion, the format is.

Nowhere in this thread have I said the word "Apple" or even brought up things like iPods or other music sources. AM Radio has no shortage of competition from FM and TV. The days of an AM radio station having an exclusive on school closings are over.

I only brought up school closings as an aside. Stop obsessing over it. FORGET the school closings. Schools directing parents to WBEN adds NOTHING. Not even 5 listeners. Got it.

What was laughable was your "revival" comment. It showed a lack of understanding of the situation. WBEN has lost audience at a surprising rate over the last 2 years. That remains the point.

 

[TheBigA]

The band isn't even relevant in this discussion, the format is.

Maybe for you. My point is that the AM band simply is no longer relevant. For some crazy reason, you still think it's the 90s. Maybe in Buffalo it is.

Format doesn't matter because all formats broadcast school closings and weather forecasts. So does morning TV. The content playing field is level, yet some people still tune in WBEN.

What was laughable was your "revival" comment. It showed a lack of understanding of the situation. WBEN has lost audience at a surprising rate over the last 2 years. That remains the point.

So you're obsessing over one word, not even a serious word, in my post? The fact is that WBEN, with all of its problems, showed a big increase, and is still #2 in Buffalo. That's why it continues to do what it does in its regular programming. I said it was a revival because, by all rights, this station should be as dead as many of its former listeners. But it's not. You don't like what they do. I get that. But you want to blow up a top rated radio station, one that still makes a lot of money. If you were working in radio, and you suggested that, you'd be fired.

Radio ratings are like a horse race. Yesterday was the Kentucky Derby. No one really cares how fast the horses ran. What everyone cares about is: Win, place, and show. Right now, WBEN is still able to place. Not bad for a horse that's one step away from the glue factory.

 

[Unregistered]

Maybe for you. My point is that the AM band simply is no longer relevant. For some crazy reason, you still think it's the 90s. Maybe in Buffalo it is.

The point of my post was a correction regarding your ill-informed "revival" comment. Again, the frequency's band was irrelevant in the point I was making. But you keep going with that strawman.

Format doesn't matter because all formats broadcast school closings and weather forecasts. So does morning TV. The content playing field is level, yet some people still tune in WBEN.

I don't know why you are still obsessing over this school closings thing. I already, generously, exaggerated it's UNimportance, just for your benefit.

What you are clearly having trouble grasping, and which was my main point, was that WBEN did NOT have a "revival" as you claim---unless increasing a .8 at a time of year when you usually increase more, is considered a revival. They are down 20% from just 2 years ago. Anyone in management who displays the lack of awareness you're demonstrating would be fired. Educate yourself about the market and maybe we can have a more informed discussion.

How do you not know that ratings over the course of 4 quarters are very cyclical, especially in newstalk? Guess what, every year WBEN has a "revival" when the Fall book jumps higher than the Summer book, and then when the Winter book is higher than the Fall book! Hallelujah! A revival! It's a miracle! The POINT is that over the past 2 years, their highs and lows have all been LOWER than they have been in quite some time. Over the past t 2 years, the decrease has been substantial, and we're talking SHARE, not cume, so these losses are to other radio stations, not ipods.

 

[flybynight]

Maybe for you. My point is that the AM band simply is no longer relevant. For some crazy reason, you still think it's the 90s. Maybe in Buffalo it is.

The point of my post was a correction regarding your ill-informed "revival" comment. Again, the frequency's band was irrelevant to the point I was making, but you keep going with that strawman.

Format doesn't matter because all formats broadcast school closings and weather forecasts. So does morning TV. The content playing field is level, yet some people still tune in WBEN.

I don't know why you are still obsessing over this school closings thing. I already, generously, exaggerated it's UNimportance, just for your benefit.

What you are clearly having trouble grasping, and which was my main point, was that WBEN did NOT have a "revival" as you claim---unless increasing a .8 at a time of year when you usually increase more is considered a revival. How do you not know that ratings over the course of 4 quarters are very cyclical, especially in newstalk? Guess what, every year WBEN has a "revival" when the Fall book jumps higher than the Summer book, and then when the Winter book is higher than the Fall book! Hallelujah! A revival! It's a miracle!

The POINT is that over the past 2 years, their highs and lows have all been LOWER than they have been in quite some time. They are down 20% from just 2 years ago. That is substantial---and we're talking SHARE, not cume, so these losses are to other radio stations, not ipods.

Anyone in management who displays the lack of awareness you're demonstrating would be fired. Educate yourself about the market and maybe we can have a more informed discussion.