Network Affiliates That Are Too Close To Each Other

[Gregg]

There are a few places around the country where network affiliates are less than 50 miles from each other. Some are logical, some are not.

Obviously Baltimore is such a big market on its own that it has its own set of network affiliates, even though it's only 35 miles from Washington.

On Florida's Gulf Coast, ABC has an affiliate in Sarasota even though about 40 miles away, Tampa has a complete set of its own network affiliates, including an ABC station. Maybe Sarasota's ABC station being on UHF had something to do with it? Of course, today with digital TV, that issue is moot. Maybe in ABC's early days, the need for affiliates was greater than for the more successful NBC and CBS so ABC was willing to give affiliation to short-spaced stations. For instance, San Jose had an ABC affiliate on Channel 11 even though ABC owns Channel 7 in San Francisco, 38 miles away.

There was a brief time when ABC had a UHF affiliate in Bridgeport CT, even though it also had a VHF affiliate 20 miles away in New Haven and 45 miles away, an O&O in NYC. Also in CT, NBC had a UHF affiliate in Waterbury and another U in Hartford, 30 miles away. Cleveland and Akron had different ABC affiliates, Akron's on UHF.

Channel 9 in Manchester NH had been an ABC affiliate even before ABC had a station in Boston, 47 miles away. So in the early days of TV, WMUR served as Boston's ABC station. Today, Channel 5 in Boston and Channel 9 are co-owned. They have separate newsrooms but they run many of the same network and syndicated programs.

I also notice Lincoln NE has CBS and ABC affiliates, even though 40 miles away, Omaha has a full set of affiliates. Topeka also has or had a network affiliate even though its 60 miles from Kansas City. Bellingham WA had a CBS station only 75 miles away from Seattle, although KVOS used to function more like CBS's Vancouver WA affiliate, running Canadian commercials and only carrying some CBS programs.



Gregg
[email protected]

 

[Sammi Brie]

WWSB came about because WTSP (longtime ABC in Tampa before the New World earthquake hit) had signal problems in Sarasota.

The Lincoln-Hastings-Kearney market is really, really odd and has duplicates of everything except CBS and Fox (two separate ABCs - one a two-station setup - and one NBC but for Lincoln which borrows WOWT from Omaha). That DMA could use a good realignment.

Topeka is a full market with NBC, CBS, ABC, and an LPTV Fox.

Washington and Baltimore are so close that they end up creating an OTA duplication (two of everything and three NBCs if you count WHAG Hagerstown).

Other oddities:

-Waco and Bryan, Texas. Two CBS affiliates, one owner. Bryan/College Station has some repeaters but only the CBS airs a full local newscast.
-WMGM Atlantic City, New Jersey. Technically a Philadelphia-market station. It makes its money off newscasts for South Jersey.

 

[KML0224]

Another instance in 2009 is New Britain, CT to Springfield, MA: WVIT-DT (NBC) channel 35 and WWLP-DT (NBC) channel 11, respectively. The two cities are 33 air miles from each other.

 

[azumanga]

Bellingham WA had a CBS station only 75 miles away from Seattle, although KVOS used to function more like CBS's Vancouver WA affiliate, running Canadian commercials and only carrying some CBS programs.

You mean "Vancouver, BC"? Vancouver, WA is on the southern side of the state, across the Columbia from Portland.

 

[searadiofreak]

I think that is what he meant. All the major Seattle stations can be seen on most Vancouver, Canada cable. However, the reverse it not true, CBC may be available to some Seattle cable customers, but that is about it.

 

[dave73]

Since WLFI Lafayette Indiana moved from 18 to 11, their coverage increased so much, that their signal now goes down to Indianapolis. Now, the northern part of the Indianapolis market has 2 CBS stations: WLFI Lafayette Indiana (RF 11 PSIP 18) & WISH-TV Indianapolis (RF 9 PSIP 8 ). WLFI's transmitter is in Rossville, IN, which is between Lafayette & Kokomo. Lafayette can also get most Indianapolis stations, and there's rimshot coverage of WISH-TV in Lafayette.

Here's the link to the estimated coverage for WLFI on RF11: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT988218.html

Here's the estimated coverage for WISH-TV on RF 9: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1249877.html

Based on mapquest, there's an estimated 60 miles between Lafayette & Indianapolis..

 

[Skynet74]

Boston and Providence, Only 50 miles apart and each city has it's own set of affiliates. But this is one example that makes perfect sense since they are in seperate states. So it's understandable.

 

[JeeperOne]

Only two such examples come to my mind at this late hour (Although one has long since been remedied).

1) KNTV 11 San Jose - Was an ABC affiliate until NBC Universal bought it from struggling Granite Broadcasting & turned it into an NBC O&O. As an ABC affiliate, it overlapped ABC O&O KGO 7 in San Francisco.

2) KERO 23 Bakersfield - An ABC affiliate owned by McGraw Hill. Because of its proximity to Los Angeles, it overlaps ABC O&O KABC 7 despite it being on UHF.

Then again, in the day & age of HDTV, does overlapping really matter all that much today? Just a thought.....

Cheers

 

[tripinva]

2) KERO 23 Bakersfield - An ABC affiliate owned by McGraw Hill. Because of its proximity to Los Angeles, it overlaps ABC O&O KABC 7 despite it being on UHF.

What? I can find no reality-based coverage maps that show significant overlap between the two.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

WWSB came about because WTSP (longtime ABC in Tampa before the New World earthquake hit) had signal problems in Sarasota.

The WTSP transmitter was also well north of the other stations'. It was licensed to Largo and transmitted from, IIRC, somewhere in Pasco County. With WWSB a relatively low-powered station, there wasn't as much overlap as there is today. (or at least, as there *was* at the end of analog...)

_________________________________________________

Many of these situations can be explained by the rather wimpy signals of early UHF stations. In 1963:

WWLP was 214kw/750' -- probably little or no overlap with 191kw WHNB-30. (now WVIT) There was a third NBC affiliate in the mix, WATR-53 (later WTXX-20) Waterbury with an entire 25kw.

WAKR Akron was only 110kw.

There were three CBS affiliates in the Harrisburg market: WHP with 447kw/820' (which really should have covered most of the market), WLYH-15 with 129kw, and WSBA-43 with 132kw.

Add to the relatively low powers, UHF receivers were a LOT worse then than they are today.

 

[dave73]

2) KERO 23 Bakersfield - An ABC affiliate owned by McGraw Hill. Because of its proximity to Los Angeles, it overlaps ABC O&O KABC 7 despite it being on UHF.

What? I can find no reality-based coverage maps that show significant overlap between the two.

- Trip

KERO's coverage on DT-10: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1250625.html

KABC's coverage on DT-7: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251719.html

When I looked at their coverages, there's little overlap. That's common in some counties where they're between markets. But this thread is where there are network affiliates and/or network o&o stations have large overlap in each others' markets. An example I gave was one where a CBS affiliate gained significant coverage digital to reach nearest major city.

If you wanna look at coverage maps, here's a link on the FCC website: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/tvq.html

Here's another link from the FCC website for the coverage maps: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

The second link will give a list of all stations for the city & state, or zip code that can, and could be received.

 

[bpatrick]

I think some posters have, in the past, suggested
merging Washington and Baltimore into one market
(would that include Hagerstown?). No way. Washington
and Baltimore people consider themselves separate markets
with little in common.

Likewise I don't think Boston and Providence (maybe throw
in Hartford/New Haven, since it's pretty close) would ever
merge for much the same reason.

I can remember seeing Western Washington State editions
of TV Guide in the late '70s that still listed KVOS as a CBS
affiliate, yet I could just about count the number of CBS
programs on the station on one hand. Even then it seemed
like more of a Canadian station sprinkled with lots of British
imports (Benny Hill, "Doctor In The House," etc.).

Three markets that are clustered together pretty tightly:
Pittsburgh, Johnstown/Altoona, and Wheeling/Steubenville;
in fact, in the pre-digital era, WTAE served as the de facto
ABC affiliate in Wheeling (I think ABC is on a WTRF subchannel
now).

Finally, WTSP did have to place its transmitter well to the north
of other Tampa Bay Area stations in order to avoid short-spacing
WPLG Miami (both stations broadcast on Ch. 10). This meant that
WTSP could be picked up in some counties north of the Bay Area
that probably relied more on Orlando (especially for CBS and NBC
when 10 was an ABC affiliate), since WFLA and WTVT didn't get
into them. But it also meant poor coverage to the south, hence
WWSB. (BTW, WWSB lobbied to keep its ABC affiliation when WFTS/28
became the Bay Area's ABC affiliate, simply because WFTS--being UHF--
didn't have good reach into Sarasota either; also, with WTSP switching
to CBS, Sarasota has come to rely about as much on WINK Ft. Myers for
CBS programming. Ch. 6 in Miami had the same problem; its transmitter
was placed south of Miami, around Homestead, FL, to avoid interference
with Orlando's Ch. 6; at one time Miami's 6 put a so-so signal into
Dade County and was hardly available at all in Broward (Ft. Lauderdale).

 

[bg02445]

Boston and Providence, Only 50 miles apart and each city has it's own set of affiliates. But this is one example that makes perfect sense since they are in seperate states. So it's understandable.

The transmitters of most Providence stations are in Rehoboth, MA, and the Boston ones are generally in Needham, MA. Those two cities are only 29 miles apart.

Another example in this area would be Ion affiliates WPXQ in Hopkinton, RI and WHPX in Oakdale, CT. They are only 21 miles away from each other.

 

[LKellerIII]

Only two such examples come to my mind at this late hour (Although one has long since been remedied).

1) KNTV 11 San Jose - Was an ABC affiliate until NBC Universal bought it from struggling Granite Broadcasting & turned it into an NBC O&O. As an ABC affiliate, it overlapped ABC O&O KGO 7 in San Francisco.

2) KERO 23 Bakersfield - An ABC affiliate owned by McGraw Hill. Because of its proximity to Los Angeles, it overlaps ABC O&O KABC 7 despite it being on UHF.

Then again, in the day & age of HDTV, does overlapping really matter all that much today? Just a thought.....

Cheers

Slight correction: ABC pulled the affiliation from KNTV a couple of years before the station picked up NBC programming. It operated as an independent, and ran WB programming for awhile. The WB programming overlapped with KBWB San Francisco, but Granite owned both, so I guess nobody was complaining.

When the new owners of KRON 4 San Francisco got in a dust-up with NBC (long story), Granite offered up KNTV as the Bay Area's NBC affiliate. NBC took them up on the offer, then purchased the station from Granite a short time later.

 

[w9wi]

The transmitters of most Providence stations are in Rehoboth, MA, and the Boston ones are generally in Needham, MA. Those two cities are only 29 miles apart.

Just a little anecdote...

This was some 30 years ago -- I was 20; between semesters at college, Dad & I drove from Milwaukee to Massachusetts to visit one of Dad's friends in -- somewhere south of Boston. Brockton, I think.

While they went in the kitchen to swap war stories, I turned on the TV (no cable in 1979) & turned the dial until I found a good program on channel 10.

About a half-hour later, Dad's friend walked in, took a quick look at the TV, and said "Why are you watching that station coming all the way from Rhode Island???" and flipped the dial to channel 4 where the same program was indeed airing.

But I couldn't tell any difference between the two...

 

[mleach]

I think some posters have, in the past, suggested
merging Washington and Baltimore into one market
(would that include Hagerstown?). No way. Washington
and Baltimore people consider themselves separate markets
with little in common.

If the DC and Baltimore markets would ever become one ( NO I don't think it will happen either even thought the two cities are I believe is considered one metro area now ), chances are quite good Hagerstown would become a market of its own. Perhaps maybe being part of a "Four State Market" including Martinsburg ( West Virginia ), Winchester ( Virginia ), Chambersburg ( Pennsylvania ) and of course Hagerstown since all four of those cities have their own television station now though in the case with Chambersburg and Martinsburg, their "Local TV station" is based outside their areas.

 

[dhett]

Many of these situations can be explained by the rather wimpy signals of early UHF stations. In 1963:

WWLP was 214kw/750' -- probably little or no overlap with 191kw WHNB-30. (now WVIT) There was a third NBC affiliate in the mix, WATR-53 (later WTXX-20) Waterbury with an entire 25kw.

WAKR Akron was only 110kw.

There were three CBS affiliates in the Harrisburg market: WHP with 447kw/820' (which really should have covered most of the market), WLYH-15 with 129kw, and WSBA-43 with 132kw.

Add to the relatively low powers, UHF receivers were a LOT worse then than they are today.

Another such example was WILK-TV 34 Wilkes-Barre PA (sign-on 9/16/53) and WARM-TV 16 Scranton PA (sign-on 1/2/54), both ABC affiliates. The two cities are about 20 miles apart. Each station was a money-loser, and in 1955, agreed to merge. WNEP-TV debuted on 1/1/56, using WILK-TV's license, but WARM-TV's channel 16 and city of license, Scranton. Meanwhile, channel 34 was reassigned to Binghamton NY.

 

[desertv]

Los Angeles and Palm Springs (all 3 networks)

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Just a little anecdote...(snip)...I turned on the TV (no cable in 1979) & turned the dial until I found a good program on channel 10...(snip)...About a half-hour later, Dad's friend walked in, took a quick look at the TV, and said "Why are you watching that station coming all the way from Rhode Island???" and flipped the dial to channel 4 where the same program was indeed airing. But I couldn't tell any difference between the two...

Surprised he didn't say "don't watch that 'far away' station--it'll ruin the TV!" ;D

However the real memory flogger is: was it before or after AT&T went to its
"diplexer" system for sound which, even though this was pre-satellite by a
few years, finally brought the audio up to 15 kHz bandwith?

If it still was the old Telco line (with 5 kHz audio), was there a difference in
sound quality from the Boston vs. the Providence station?

You know you're an old-time TV geek if you can tell how far down the Telco
line it was by the "sound."

 

[tripinva]

KERO's coverage on DT-10: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1250625.html

KABC's coverage on DT-7: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1251719.html

The FCC's "contour maps" are not coverage maps and should not be treated as such. They're used for allotment purposes but are not accurate reflections of real world coverage.

KERO: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call=kero&type=D

KABC: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=80&q=call=kabc&type=D

Little or no real world overlap.

- Trip