NETWORK RERUNS ALREADY / FOX AT 10 PM / WHAT HAPPENED TO SPECIALS

[gregg75]

PICK YOUR TOPIC(S)

RERUNS: We're only about 5 weeks into the new season and the networks are already rerunning some NEW shows. Is this due to lack of programs or a "they'll watch anything" mentality?
I honestly believe broadcast networks are in trouble as cable continues to take viewers away. Are they just following the cable networks which show the same show 7 times in a week or more???

FOX: Maybe FOX should consider programming the 10 PM hour and then having a BEST OF the week reruns on weekends. If you're going to be a true network (instead of 3/4 of one), prove it!
I think the other networks would be SHAKIN' if Fox took it to the next level.

SPECIALS: There once were what seemed 7 or 8 each week. Now we are down to award shows,
beauty pagents and news specials. Where did they all go? It's as if all creativity has left TV. Didn't
many shows get their start as specials?

 

[MarcB]

PICK YOUR TOPIC(S)

RERUNS: We're only about 5 weeks into the new season and the networks are already rerunning some NEW shows. Is this due to lack of programs or a "they'll watch anything" mentality?

It's just The CW. And no one watches CW. Either that or networks are afraid to compete against a MLB Play-off Game on FOX.

FOX: Maybe FOX should consider programming the 10 PM hour and then having a BEST OF the week reruns on weekends. If you're going to be a true network (instead of 3/4 of one), prove it! I think the other networks would be SHAKIN' if Fox took it to the next level.

And what weekend day would you rerun the shows on? Fridays? Saturdays and Sundays are good on FOX. Saturdays with COPS and America's Most Wanted. And Sundays with Animation Domination.

 

[LKellerIII]

RERUNS: Welcome to the new network model, which is more like basic cable. The networks save more money by repeating expensive programs more often. Actually, it seems to me this has been going on for a few years now.

FOX: Aside from the likelihood that Fox has no desire to spend the money to program the 10:00 hour in a day when networks are attracting smaller and smaller audiences - many of the affiliates have high profile and profitable news hours at 10:00, and would resist any attempt by Fox to take that hour away from them. From what I've heard, the Fox O&Os (KTTV, etc.) also prefer running local news at that hour.

If you recall, when there was talk of bringing Conan to Fox at 11:00, the affiliates let it be known that they didn't want to give up that hour. I think they'd scream even louder about giving up 10:00.

SPECIALS: These have been virtually gone for many years, and TV critics were decrying the death of news specials in the 1970s. A big breaking news story will justify a special - the Gulf oil spill, for example. ABC pre-empted The Whole Truth last week for a news special on the Chilean mine rescue. But news specials, as in documentaries? Forget it - long gone on the major networks. CNN still produces them from time to time, but they'll stop too if their ratings keep going downhill.

 

[gregg75]

It's more than the CW. I haven't kept track of all reruns, but ABC, FOX (Glee) and others are guilty.

Fox on weekends has grown tired. Few watch MOST WANTED like they once did. Sunday animation is not what it once was either. Sure, some would hate to give up their 10 PM news. They could always present those shows at another time if they love news that much. From what I've seen those Fox 10PM news shows are not that great anyway. Why even have news if you're unwilling to go head to head with other stations, it's an easy cop out.

Fox needs a new network model or to at least shake things up......this isn't 1989 any more. What has worked for them in the past will not continue to work in the future. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER.

I just think the networks are killing themselves with too early reruns, poor program choices and their
unwillingness to try new things/ideas. As soon as one network pulls out a hit like FRIENDS, all the others copy that idea and make another copy-cat show.

 

[DToTheJ]

SPECIALS: ... Now we are down to award shows, beauty pagents and news specials. Where did they all go? It's as if all creativity has left TV...

And it seems like now all of the basic cable networks are inventing their own awards shows if for no reason than to appeal to the demo that likes those kind of things, or because everybody else is doing it. "The CMT Awards"? "The BET Awards"? "The Retirement Living TV Awards"? Come on now!

 

[BRice16]

Fox on weekends has grown tired. Few watch MOST WANTED like they once did. Sunday animation is not what it once was either. Sure, some would hate to give up their 10 PM news. They could always present those shows at another time if they love news that much. From what I've seen those Fox 10PM news shows are not that great anyway. Why even have news if you're unwilling to go head to head with other stations, it's an easy cop out.

Fox needs a new network model or to at least shake things up......this isn't 1989 any more. What has worked for them in the past will not continue to work in the future. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER.

You have to understand that in most markets, the local Fox Stations make more off of their 10-10:30 news block than they do most of the rest of the day. Why? Because they have ZERO news competition in their market at 10. They can sell primetime news exclusivity that their local competitors can not.

LOCAL stations make about 75% of their revenue on advertising during their local news broadcasts. Fox stations use the advantage of a zero-competition situation at 10 to bring that number higher.

In some of the major markets, Atlanta being the most glaring example, the Fox station at 10 gets better ratings than 2 of their 3 competitors at 11.

 

[gregg75]

I think Fox giving up or moving their 10 PM news makes a lot more sense than NBC putting Leno
on at 10 PM. Hey, at least NBC took a chance, which is more than most. Those are the kind of
risks that will eventually pay off for somebody.

All cartoons on Sunday has paid off for Fox. That was a risk they took which could have turned out very differently. All crime and drama has worked for CBS, but can they keep it up? Somethings gotta give.

How does Fox know shows will not work at 10, WHEN THEY'VE NEVER TRIED IT? I will only watch the 10 PM news when there is absolutely nothing else on. I still think the other networks would
have a mild heart attack if Fox moved into the 10 PM slot and became a true competitive network.

 

[sandiegoinexile]

I think Fox giving up or moving their 10 PM news makes a lot more sense than NBC putting Leno
on at 10 PM...How does Fox know shows will not work at 10, WHEN THEY'VE NEVER TRIED IT? I will only watch the 10 PM news when there is absolutely nothing else on.

I think you are missing the point that others have been successfully making. The Fox affiliates ABSOLUTELY LOVE their 10PM newscasts. They make money. Lots of money. Perhaps you are not interested in watching news, but other viewers are.

Broadcasting does not exist for viewers. It exists for advertisers. And advertisers want eyeballs. Advertisers pay the bills. Advertisers don't particularly care what is shown, as long as folks watch it and their ads are viewed. And the FOX local stations get every penny from those 10PM advertisers.

In addition, network viewing levels begin to decline at 10PM. It's become the DVR Hour.

 

[azumanga]

SPECIALS: ... Now we are down to award shows, beauty pagents and news specials. Where did they all go? It's as if all creativity has left TV...

I think specials are now generally limited to breaking news specials and award shows -- ever since Miss America moved to cable, I haven't seen a pageant on network TV.

And it seems like now all of the basic cable networks are inventing their own awards shows if for no reason than to appeal to the demo that likes those kind of things, or because everybody else is doing it. "The CMT Awards"? "The BET Awards"? "The Retirement Living TV Awards"? Come on now!

Of course, some of these award shows are nothing more than commercials for the guests appearing on them -- take Nick's "Kids' Choice Awards", for instance: everyone appearing on that show had an upcoming movie, TV show or CD to shill.

 

[KTU_Fan]

Didn't Fox try Glee (which was in a repeat this week in case baseball ran long) after 10 one week?

 

[Sammi Brie]

Fox on weekends has grown tired. Few watch MOST WANTED like they once did. Sunday animation is not what it once was either. Sure, some would hate to give up their 10 PM news. They could always present those shows at another time if they love news that much. From what I've seen those Fox 10PM news shows are not that great anyway. Why even have news if you're unwilling to go head to head with other stations, it's an easy cop out.

It's not like every Fox affiliate has its own news department...the 10pm news share with Big 3 format not only has a halo effect for the news producer's ratings but rakes in money for both the station and the provider.

Many of the larger-market Foxes have a fuller portfolio of news: even KOKH in Oklahoma City now has a 9pm and 10pm (though no other evening news). KOKI in Tulsa has a very full news portfolio: it has a 5:30, but not a 6pm, but that's about it - it too has a 9 and 10pm. KDFW, KTBC*, and KSAZ all kept their Big 3-era news portfolio (and quickly expanded in mornings: KSAZ by 1996 had three hours of morning news from 6 to 9am).

*For some time after switching to Fox (five years!), KTBC did not have a 9pm, just a 10pm!

 

[pab]

There's one other thing to consider. One of the reasons that Fox never programmed the 10:00 hour is that, at least in the eyes of FCC regulations, it's not a "network." "Networks" program a certain number of hours per week, and Fox skates in under that. If it were to try and take back the 10:00 hour there would be craploads of regulations they don't want to deal with.

 

[gregg75]

Could be a crap load of money to take to the bank also.

As if there isn't enough news on tv already.......local and national. If that's not overkill I don't know what is.

 

[johnnyu]

Don't take away my Fox43 news from 10:00-11:00.

 

[LKellerIII]

There's one other thing to consider. One of the reasons that Fox never programmed the 10:00 hour is that, at least in the eyes of FCC regulations, it's not a "network." "Networks" program a certain number of hours per week, and Fox skates in under that. If it were to try and take back the 10:00 hour there would be craploads of regulations they don't want to deal with.

The actual reason Fox never programming the 10:00 hour is that many of its original affiliates were long time independents that had successful 10:00 O'clock news programs for many years before Fox came along...following their 8:00 O'Clock Movie, Merv Griffin, or whatever they programmed in early prime time. They may have wanted the extra income that Fox would bring them, but it doesn't mean they were ready to give up the income from local programming in afternoons, or from 10:00 PM onward.

KTVU's (Bay Area) 10 O'Clock News was a ratings winner years before the Fox affiliation. There was NO way they were giving that up. KTTV in LA had a competitive news operation at 10:00 since the early 1950s.

 

[gregg75]

Let's look at this differently........since most of you are stuck on this news thing.

Where would the network morning shows be today if they had not expanded, expanded
again and gotten longer and longer? They took a gamble. Locals gave up shows (some
probably more than others). Some probably gave up successful morning news shows. I guess somebody decided that the NETWORK could provide just as good, if not better product for that time period and it would be profitable. Few were probably forced to carry more of the morning shows than they wanted for their market.

So that being said, and if you're still stuck on this news thing, why doesn't Fox do a national
news show at 10 PM? If locals think they can do better, then so be it (do it).

At some point in the future Fox is going to expand beyond 10 PM and locals will have to adjust. DON'T BE SHOCKED WHEN IT HAPPENS. Don't be shocked if it's not a news show either.

 

[Markxxx]

Did FOX provide programs in the 9pm - 10pm (10pm - 11pm Eastern) time on Sunday nights, when it first began?

 

[milwaukee_dave]

Did FOX provide programs in the 9pm - 10pm (10pm - 11pm Eastern) time on Sunday nights, when it first began?

It did, Mark. As I recall, FOX programmed that hour through the end of the 1992-1993 season. Off the top of my head, some of the series that were slotted in that hour included "The Tracy Ullman Show" and "It's Garry Shandling's Show!" (1989-1990), "Comic Strip Primetime" (midseason in 1990-1991 and 1991-92) and "Flying Blind" and "Woops" (1992-93). I believe Ben Stiller's short-lived sketch comedy show also aired in that time slot at some point, though my memory is slipping on me.

 

[sandiegoinexile]

Local News

Where would the network morning shows be today if they had not expanded, expanded again and gotten longer and longer? They took a gamble. Locals gave up shows (some probably more than others). Some probably gave up successful morning news shows.

Huh?

GMA and The Early Show have been at 2 hours for 3+ decades. (OK, 2.5 hours when you count the early morning 30-minute newscasts that can be plugged into local programming between 5AM-7AM).

The Today Show expanded to three hours a decade ago. NBC affiliates were given back an hour of midday to compensate for that. When the fourth hour of Today was added, it was not mandated for all affiliates and "The Hoda and Kathie Lee Show" is not even shown on all affiliates, even though NBC rescued the world from "Passions" and handed back that hour to the affiliates. For example, the fourth hour of Today has never aired in Sacramento. Affiliates could add Hoda+KathieLee or they could buy other programming.

In 2010, local news airs in most major markets from 430AM-700AM. (4AM-7AM in most Top 10 Markets). Since many network affiliates operate duopolies, they can often run news from 430AM-10AM by using both their stations. Heck, even tiny markets like Chico CA (Market Size #150+) has locally produced news from 530AM-7AM.

In addition, many major affiliates on the west coast have some crazy-type infomercial-sponsored-program type hour-long show that masquerades as newsy lifestyle. I think every station in Phoenix AZ has something like "Better Arizona", "Now @9", "Your Life A to Z", or "Sonoran Living".

Locals aren't giving up shows. Of course networks are going to evolve. Comcast will be the major change agent, probably migrating its efforts to on-demand vs scheduled viewing. Forcing people to watch a program only at a scheduled time is so 1998.

 

[dave73]

Chicago's WFLD (Fox O&O) never had a news department until it became a Fox station in 1986. They have a 9pm CT news (competes with WGN-TV News at 9), and runs for an hour. I believe a year or 2 ago, WFLD tried to run a half hour 10pm news, but dropped it after ratings were that bad. The 10pm CT timeslot used to show MASH, but they moved it to the afternoon timeslot, & air The Office at 10pm & The Simpsons at 10:30. As for morning news, it's all local, & runs from 4:30 - 10am.

As for the number of hours to be classified a true network; it's 22 hours a week (3 hours Monday - Saturday & 4 hours on Sunday). So while CBS, ABC, & NBC have the 8 - 11pm ET (7 - 10pm CT) timeslot Monday - Satuday & 7 - 11pm ET (6 - 10pm CT) Sunday for network programming, Fox only has 15 hours of primetime programming (2 hours Monday - Saturday & 3 hours on Sunday) by not having primetime programming in the 10pm ET (9pm CT). So in the eyes of the FCC, Fox isn't a true network, but because they're still big, Fox can't merge with ABC, NBC, or CBS if they wanted to.