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Neumann TLM 103 VS. Sennheiser MKH 416

J

JAlan84

Guest
They are two completely different mics. A shotgun and a large diaphragm. But the TLM 103 and the MKH 416 seem to be the two top choices for voice over artists. Which one is better? Has anyone worked with both? What are the high points and flaws of each? Thanks!
 
MKH 416 is the defacto standard on the Hollywood voice over circuit. Doesn't accentuate the low end and cuts through the mix nicely. I like it more for male voices, not so much for females. It has a very tight pickup pattern.

The TLM-103 is a Neumann on a budget that thankfully is still built in Germany. It gives a sense of the more expensive U-87. It's got better low frequency response due to the large capsule. There is now a less expensive Neumann TLM-102. TLM stands for "transformerless," there is no output transformer on the microphone, some say a transformer colors the sound.

The recording/pro audio community has a love-hate relationship with the TLM-103, with some "golden ears" not holding it in high regard as a music recording microphone.

Want an alternative? Consider the Audio-Technica 4047, also popular for voice overs.

Bottom line is try to audition both and see what you like. Also, make sure you invest in a decent microphone pre-amp for your new mic.
 
317C50KW said:
Also, make sure you invest in a decent microphone pre-amp for your new mic.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I have broken down my pre-amps to either the Aphex 230 or the Avalon 737. Both go for about the same price used. Whataya think? I haven't had the opportunity to try either on my own voice. But I have heard each on other voices.
 
JALAN84: Go with the 737. I had the Aphex and it doesn't compare. Nice, but no Avalon. I use the TLM 103, and Bock 195 mics with it. I also have the Avalon M5, very different from the 737, but works nicely with the 416. Of course, there are many others out there to consider, but I am very familiar with the 737 and the 230.

Best,
Tom
 
the TLM102 is a FANTASTIC mic, and dare I say imho that it pwns the TLM103 and most other Neumann mics of any vintage for VO. With the exception of the 87 and of course the 47.

In a bit of a different price class though... if you can afford a Milab rectangular, you might never want for another vocal mic ever again. This one's my baby :p
http://www.milabmic.com/showproduct.asp?id=1111
but these typically go for around 3 grand used. as heard on almost all Mariah Carey's vocals, among many others.

for voice processors for broadcast, i tend to go with a tad more natural sound since with modern digital processing it usually seems to gel better with different voices that way... in my experience... so one of my favs is the DBX 286A (not to be confused with the Orban-designed 268A which i could have bought, but i let my friend sell cos i'm retarded).

unfortunately for more high-end recording use, where you need a truly pristine output, it has a tad bit much noise. i also lean heavily against the Avalons for those purposes too because they saturate WAY too much for my tastes. If i want/need a clean preamp, I'm more often than not reaching for a knob on one of these:
http://www.mil-media.com/products.html

cheers


p.s. if you're looking for a killer dynamic handheld, on the cheap, with great sound period... it does exist
http://www.sontronicsusa.com/stc80.php
you can pick these up for an incredible $119 online at a certain retailer I won't spam the name of here, i trust you can find it if you want to. ;)
 
Along with the Sennheiser 416, the Bock 195, and the Mojave MA200, I have the Neumann TLM103. The Mojave is a tube mic, and it works far better with the Avalon M5 than the 737. Has anyone any experience with the UA LA-610 MkII, or D.W. Fearn products?
Best
Tom
 
There is nothing like a 416 for VO work. It give a voice an "electric" quality that no other mic does.
 
Don't know how many US engineers are familiar with AKG brand and mics, but I would look at AKG C414 as well. That's a famous AKG microphone with the tradition spanning 39 years, that along with C12 and K240 headphones built AKG's reputation... And for a reason - it sounds fabulous. With vocals it adds that up-front density to the sound.


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
bnesound said:
There is nothing like a 416 for VO work. It give a voice an "electric" quality that no other mic does.
Click to expand...

When I worked in cable television we did a lot of local commercial voice overs in the online edit suite. The Sennheiser shotgun mikes have superior off-axis rejection which was a plus. They work in any room acoustics environment and with equipment cooling fans running in the background.

I came to that situation being a fan of almost anything by Shure or Electrovoice, of course we all lusted for a Neuman. but really the Sennheiser shotguns sound as good, or better, than any of those and then you have the noise rejection as a bonus.

An aside, my first face to face encounter with a Neuman came at a public station in Ohio, your tax dollars at work.
 
nmoore6676 said:
The Sennheiser shotgun mikes have superior off-axis rejection which was a plus.
Click to expand...

Any shotgun microphone will have great off-axis rejection, because it is, well - a shotgun microphone! Be it from Sennheiser, Neumann, AKG, Shure...

Shotgun microphones by design have directional polar pattern.


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
Goran Tomas said:
nmoore6676 said:
The Sennheiser shotgun mikes have superior off-axis rejection which was a plus.
Click to expand...

Any shotgun microphone will have great off-axis rejection, because it is, well - a shotgun microphone! Be it from Sennheiser, Neumann, AKG, Shure...

Shotgun microphones by design have directional polar pattern.


Regards,
Goran Tomas
Click to expand...

A serious consideration with any microphone that has a directional pattern is that the frequency response of the off-axis range is never flat, or even close to it.
So while you may get good rejection at one frequency at a particular polar location, the rejection at the same polar angle may be only so-so for other frequencies. And vice versa.

This can lead to a situation where off-axis material that is loud enough to be heard sounds really odd, either a comb-filter effect, or muffled or shrill...depending upon the mic's design, and exactly where in its polar axis the offending material is occurring.

Kind Regards,
David
 
Goran Tomas said:
nmoore6676 said:
The Sennheiser shotgun mikes have superior off-axis rejection which was a plus.
Click to expand...

Any shotgun microphone will have great off-axis rejection, because it is, well - a shotgun microphone! Be it from Sennheiser, Neumann, AKG, Shure...

Shotgun microphones by design have directional polar pattern.


Regards,
Goran Tomas
Click to expand...

True but in my experience and personal observations the majority of shotgun mikes actually used by movie and TV crews are in fact made by Sennheiser and the original question was to the difference between a Neumann Cardiod mike and a Sennheiser shotgun. I have worked with a lot of audio, amateur and professional, starting all the way back in high school so I have used or been exposed to a lot of mikes by all the major manufacturers including RCA and they all have their fans depending on the ear of the beholder.

Rumor has it that Bing Crosby had a particular mike in the RCA 44 series that he insisted be used for all of his broadcasts and recordings. I am sure that there are other similar tales of stars and their mikes.
 
Interesting read.

From over 35 years in Broadcasting, my experiences are:

the biggest dissapointment: Shure SM7. I couldn't wait to finally get one, then couldn't wait to get my EV RE20 back.
the biggest surprise ever: AT 2020 condensor from BSW for podcast for $99 (with free headphones yet)!
really good, but I know there's something better: Senheiser 421 (set on full M on AM radio)
VO fav: incomparable clean, rich sound, but not practical for radio: Neuman U87
all time favorite still: RCA 77DX No pampering or power supplies, flexible in patterns and eq. (And just plain fun)
 
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