New Age Production room

[evanelrod]

Hey everyone,
Wanted to get some opinions on something.

So we're in the process of trying to building a really nice production room.
Custom furniture, big nice room, a classy place to take clients in to record spots, and to run talk shows out of with people outside the station.
Basically a showcase room. Sales manager even bought a single cup coffee maker to put in there. (production/bistro?)

Now, we're not a large market, and we don't have a huge budget either... So what we want, and what we'll end up getting, are two different things.

What we'd like to see is a clean surface. A very digital/virtual workstation. In fact, the original statement made was, "I just want a couple of LCD's, Keyboard/Mouse, Mics, and Monitors on the counter. Mixer on the screen, etc"
Now I know there's a million different ways to skin a cat, but what would you get if you were in charge of this task?

The setup:
Two RE-20's, one in the operator position, and the other for a stand up or sit down guest sidecart, etc. I've got 2 OC-White stands for them.
3 cheaper mics for the talk show(s) guests. (I've been thinking the EV Ravens because they look pretty cool and are cheap. Maybe on booms too?)
Got some M-Audio speakers ready for use.
We've got a nice PC already... very powerful.
And We've got two LCD's, wireless keyboard/mouse, etc.

Going on from there... that's where we're getting lost and confused!

We've been looking at a lot of these type interfaces (firewire and usb)
Presonus Firestudio line of units (Firestudio, project, and tube)
Motu 896mk3
Lexicon I-ONIX FW810S
Even looked cheaper like the M-Audio FastTrack Ultra 8r
etc. etc....
Couple any of these with Presonus MSR and Fader port for maybe something functional 'on the desk'?

These look like the only idea to put a 'mixer on a screen' instead of on the desk, etc.
We don't PLAN on recording any bands, etc. But it wouldn't kill us to have that capability.
Really, I'm still looking for that solution for radio production and live or recorded talk shows.

And when looking at these, and the different options, offerings and pricing... it's getting pretty confusing!
Do we need to spend more on the interface, and only get a couple of dbx 286's for the main two mics, just using the internal preamps on the unit?
Or could we splurge on a couple of symmetrics, or a vorsis and get something different we haven't thought of?
Is latency going to be a big issue while recording? How can I make this function more like a traditional production room, while still keeping it cutting edge, and classy?

Just soo many choices, and I thought I'd ask your opinions.
Thanks in advance for the time spend reading (and hopefully responding to) the subject.

 

[TomT]

I would upgrade to Symetrix 528E's or other more expensive mike processors rather than the DBX units--especially if you plan on using them for mike preamps. My preference for a production room, however, would be to run the mike unprocessed into the computer and use the digital editing program to add any processing.

Beyond that, don't have much to suggest. You can buy a Cadillac analog mixer for the price of a mediocre digital platform. Doubt that--outside of major markets--most clients would a) notice; b) care or c) understand what they are looking at-- to warrant going with an impressive but impractical "Star Trek" digital set-up over a more conventional analog studio.

If you want the studio to double as a conference room, you could always sink a small mixer below the counter and either have a sliding panel to cover it, or mount it under the counter on a sliding shelf like a keyboard shelf. The computer can be hidden in cabinetry as long as it has enough ventilation. Our control rooms are built with kitchen cabinet bases--the computers reside mostly out of sight in the bases with just monitor, keyboard & mouse up top. They make USB extenders that will fit into a 1" hole in the counter top.

BTW--to give you an idea of costs--just built from scratch new studio in what was a master bedroom (not mine--lease ran out and we had to move the station-bought a house). Total was around $15,000; most of the cost was the console (12 channel R55E), cabinetry and soundproofing ($2,600) plus a bunch of small stuff you normally forget about (wire, networking items, mikes, amps, speakers, etc.). We had to keep the old studio going until the last minute, so most of the equipment was new. The old studio equipment will go towards a production studio--which that station never had before.

 

[nleibo]

>>"--Two RE-20's, one in the operator position, and the other for a stand up or sit down guest sidecart, etc"<<
I've NEVER understood this "mindset"--if it's IMPORTANT for your TALENT to sound good, isn't it important just as well for the GUESTS to sound just as good? Would you skimp on a phone system because they weren't LIVE "in studio"...I made this point with the late Art Rust, Jr , who also concurred--many years ago at WABC-New York.!

Nleibo

 

[TomT]

RE-20's are fine for "talent" who like to eat the mike. If the studio is used for news-type interviews (local police chief cutting buckle your seat belt psa's, or the Kiwanis clubbers promoting their pancake breakfast) then cardioid mikes that pickup well from 15" out may be a better choice. Remember the old EV 666's?

 

[Sgeirk]

I agree, I'd use the same mics all around, in fact, the RE-20's are best in the guest positions, because guests don't have any idea of mic technique, and RE-20's are about the most versatile.

Look up Superstition from Stevie Wonder on You Tube...there's an RE-20 that Stevie's using...they're very forgiving in just about any environment.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I'm hearing two lines of thought that are in conflict with each other. I have not had the honor of actually sitting down with an RE-20 but in watching the conversation over the long haul... it appears that the RE-20 is a mic that the males of the species like because if gives them this warm, fuzzy feeling about the prowess of their own voice... provided you know how to "work" the thing.

Others see m to think it is a great all-around mic for general studio use even when the guests are going to be female, males with less than golden voices, and people who actually have little or no idea that microphones have their own directional preferences.

So. Which is it?

 

[evanelrod]

???
I don't understand where the flaw is in this 'mindset'?
RE-20's are one of the standards of our industry, yes?
Sure, we could try to get some more money to buy some nice Neumann condenser mic, etc. But neither our small market talent, much less a no experience guest, will know how to use it properly!
From my 'mindset' that's exactly what I'm not doing is skimping on the guest position... hence the complete reason for this room in fact!
Clients that come in, we want them leaving thinking they have golden pipes (which don't exist).

Please explain your displeasure in my approach to this situation in a little more detail if you don't mind.

>>"--Two RE-20's, one in the operator position, and the other for a stand up or sit down guest sidecart, etc"<<
I've NEVER understood this "mindset"--if it's IMPORTANT for your TALENT to sound good, isn't it important just as well for the GUESTS to sound just as good? Would you skimp on a phone system because they weren't LIVE "in studio"...I made this point with the late Art Rust, Jr , who also concurred--many years ago at WABC-New York.!

Nleibo

 

[317C50KW]

Here are my scattered thoughts on the subject.

1. Interfacing everything through a PreSonus or similar unit is fine. I don't think it's handy though if there's even the slightest possibility that the room will be used for interviews or such. I'd add the small mixer, a Mackie Onyx would be ideal since you would have the option of routing it digital workstation via Firewire and the existing on air control room via the XLR outputs. Also I'm guessing that interfacing your telephones (mix minus for example) would be a little easier with on outboard console. "Bands" would be easier to do if you want to go there.

2. RE 20's are OK, but perhaps a better choice is EV's RE-16. They still make 'em and they sound good. They're a little less imposing too. Second choice might be a Heil PR 35 or 40, a little less money and great bang for the buck.

3. You'll need an outboard recorder of some type, I would guess that one of the new flash card units would work there because you would want to keep back up mixes of your production separate from you system computer. But then we know those never fail!

You mention using firewire. Are you basing this on an Apple computer?

 

[evanelrod]

Here are my scattered thoughts on the subject.

1. Interfacing everything through a PreSonus or similar unit is fine. I don't think it's handy though if there's even the slightest possibility that the room will be used for interviews or such. I'd add the small mixer, a Mackie Onyx would be ideal since you would have the option of routing it digital workstation via Firewire and the existing on air control room via the XLR outputs. Also I'm guessing that interfacing your telephones (mix minus for example) would be a little easier with on outboard console. "Bands" would be easier to do if you want to go there.

2. RE 20's are OK, but perhaps a better choice is EV's RE-16. They still make 'em and they sound good. They're a little less imposing too. Second choice might be a Heil PR 35 or 40, a little less money and great bang for the buck.

3. You'll need an outboard recorder of some type, I would guess that one of the new flash card units would work there because you would want to keep back up mixes of your production separate from you system computer. But then we know those never fail!

You mention using firewire. Are you basing this on an Apple computer?

1) Hadn't thought about a phone, just because we didn't plan on putting one in... right now... But that's a good point as well, that the more uses this room has, the more traditional it should end up being.
2) We already have the RE-20's sitting around from our recent studio move... (We like the SM7b better for on air use)
Bad experience with Heil... won't be using any of their products... ever.
3) Good call... Planned on having a mini disc player/recorder in there for sure. Would LOVE to finally transition them, and the sales staff to flash though.

No, this is a windows machine... Just not a lot of USB 2.0 stuff out there for some reason?

 

[tjm_pro]

If you don't mind... What issues did you have with Heil? MANY are begining to replace RE-20s with PR-40s. In fact, a CBS Classic Rocker in Boston went with Heil over RE-27s.

 

[evanelrod]

If you don't mind... What issues did you have with Heil? MANY are begining to replace RE-20s with PR-40s. In fact, a CBS Classic Rocker in Boston went with Heil over RE-27s.

Not a whole lot to do with sound, just had an experience that tarnished their name/reputation with me.
Don't really want to elaborate as I don't wish to bad mouth anyone... Especially someone that may or may not deserve it.
Who knows, it could have been a very isolated incident that just happened with me... but it was an attitude I did not like, and thought it was extremely classless for a person of that stature.
They may very well make a good product, but I won't use them.

And imho, I'd go with anything over a RE27 too... RE20 > RE27