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New all-news stations: Too tough for start-ups?

R

radiophiler

We have all-news (or nearly all-news) stations started up in the last six months by four different companies. Not one of them has 12+ numbers worth cheering about.

CBS: Low numbers in DC start-up.

Merlin: No improvement in NYC or Chicago.

Radio One: Less than a 1.0 in Houston, despite hiring known names in the market.

Cumulus: Dropping ratings for KGO in San Fran after local talk hosts are fired and they add more news blocks.

Those who know about the all-news format know that it's always said to be one of the toughest start-ups in radio.

Boy, does this prove it.

I wish these stations would be doing better. I miss the days when more radio stations did local news.

The one I'm most disappointed about is the Houston station. Clear Channel's former news station went in the talk direction. The market had a prior history of having a mostly all-news station. Radio One hired known local market news people. It's on FM (but not the best signal). Yet, less than a 1.0.

So, here's the question: If you're not an established all-news station, is there any hope in starting one up these days?

Looks like you have to have an incredible amount of patience and time. It will be interesting to see where this situation stands a year from now. How many of these stations will still be in the format? Will some add more talk?
 
radiophiler said:
So, here's the question: If you're not an established all-news station, is there any hope in starting one up these days?
Click to expand...

I've noticed the exact same thing, and I agree that the one that shocks me the most is Houston. There's a Top 10 market that's been screaming for an all-news station for years.

Here's my theory, and I'm looking for exceptions to prove me wrong: Radio right now is about heritage. If you have a heritage format, it's good for status quo. But if you flip to another format, no matter how smart the move looks on paper, you're dead. And it's not just in news/talk, although that's the board we're in now. I've watched a lot of music stations flip in the past few years, and none of them have gone on to great numbers.

Why? Habit. People listen to the same stations they always have. When they organize their pre-sets in their car, those buttons don't change. And radios don't encourage users to spin the dial any more. No dial! So there's no discovery going on. You can build it, but they won't come. You can advertise on TV or with billboards, and people don't pay attention. It's all spam to them.

The heritage rule also applies to talk show hosts. There's another thread about Rush, and what happens when he goes away or gets replaced by Huckabee. The answer to me is that Rush will be the new Howard. When he goes away, there can be no replacement. He had his fans, and they want HIM, not anyone else.

So in Houston, gospel listeners go away, but news fans don't replace them. Why? Because that frequency doesn't exist to potential news fans. They don't know it's there. In time, they may discover it. But will the station still be there for them?
 
If there's no improvement in NYC, a revival of CD 101.9 Smooth Jazz may fetch better ratings than FM News 101.9. People in NYC will ALWAYS depend on 880 WCBS or 1010 WINS for their news. You can't ban them from listening to WCBS, they like the personalities, and the Traffic & Weather on the 8s.

-crainbebo
 
WCBS and WINS have been all-news stations since the 1960s. There is no way New Yorkers will be swayed to get their news elsewhere. "You give us 22 minutes....We'll give you the world." has been WINS' slogan for 40 years. Old habits die hard! WINS means NYC news while WCBS with its better signal is stronger in the suburbs.

FM News 101.9 not only faces an uphill climb against two news stations established over four decades ago, they have to offer something WINS and WCBS aren't. There's a gaping hole for local talk in NY. It was thought WEMP would go in this direction when they signed on. Spoken word formats on FM may be on the rise, but if it's not well programmed, it won't matter if it sounds better than AM! :)
 
TheBigA said:
I've noticed the exact same thing, and I agree that the one that shocks me the most is Houston. There's a Top 10 market that's been screaming for an all-news station for years.
Click to expand...

KROI is a former Class A FM and coverage is an issue. The stereo is off supposedly to "increase coverage" while the HD is still i-Buzzing with the old format on HD-2. (I'm actually engaged in a debate about stereo right now in the Houston-Galveston board.)
 
KTN Corp said:
KROI is a former Class A FM and coverage is an issue.
Click to expand...

That may be, but all the other FM news stations in the OP don't have that issue. If people really WANT an FM news station, they'll put up with a little static. I've seen the coverage map, and it's not the reason this station is getting a 1 share.
 
The best parallel in this case should be local TV News: In many markets, one or two channels dominate for years, even decades. Very difficult for the perennial # 3 or # 4 to catapult to number one!

Similarly, a challenger to a long-established all-newser needs many, many years to change habits. And already mentioned here have been the factors which discourage dial-hunting.

It constantly ceases to amaze that the big-time operators don't realize all this. Some years ago, then-all-talk WWDB (FM) in Philadelphia tried to steal A.M. drive audience from long-established KYW Newsradio by putting on a morning news block, hiring away some talent, even utilizing the talents of such a great talent as Gil Gross. The morning news block sounded awesome, not like some of these new start-ups. Still, WWDB came nowhere near beating KYW, and management pulled the plug.

These start-ups take years. But in this new, multi-media, multi-platform environment, it's difficult to imagine these new all-news stations becoming sufficiently successful that they can justify the substantial financial outlay. I suspect other than personality differences that's why talk radio consultant guru Walt Sabo left Merlin. The brilliance of Sabo's great New Jersey success, New Jersey 101.5, was that station's New Jersey-centric focus in news and talk (and entertainment); it wasn't just replicating KYW or WCBS / 1010 WINS. And then NJ 101.5 reverts to classic oldies on weekends.
 
The TV analogy makes sense. But that makes me go back to one of my earlier statements: The launch that I'm most disappointed to see that is having ratings trouble is Radio One's KROI in Houston. That market had a tradition of a mostly all-news AM station that was turned into a conservative talk station with very little local news content. I had the most hopes for Radio One's launch.

We've all either heard or read about Merlin's all news stations. Enough said there.

And CBS had to know that it would have a huge uphill climb in DC against WTOP. Ditto for Cumulus in San Fran against KCBS.

In my mind, the Houston situation is the one to watch to measure the viability of brand new (not just an AM simulcast) all-news launches on FM.

There's one other variable I'd like to see tested in a large market somewhere: If you can share the branding of another established news source (newspaper, TV station), could that help the launch of a brand new all-news FM station? However, the FCC ownership limits are in the way of this in many markets, unless the FM station had an agreement to share content with a newspaper or TV station without their being co-owned.
 
radiophiler said:
If you can share the branding of another established news source (newspaper, TV station), could that help the launch of a brand new all-news FM station? However, the FCC ownership limits are in the way of this in many markets, unless the FM station had an agreement to share content with a newspaper or TV station without their being co-owned.
Click to expand...

There's no issue with FCC ownership limits. This is something that's frequently done around the country, but for some reason not at the stations listed in the OP. I also suggested this when KROI signed on. It was great that they hired well-known local talent. That was an advantage over the Merlin stations. But their main problem is driving tune-in. So why not set up some form of partnership with a local TV or newspaper? That's what CBS does in markets where it has news radio stations. You don't have to own the station to do a partnership. But sometimes, operators get greedy and think they can do it all alone. This is proof that you can't.
 
radiophiler said:
The TV analogy makes sense. But that makes me go back to one of my earlier statements: The launch that I'm most disappointed to see that is having ratings trouble is Radio One's KROI in Houston. That market had a tradition of a mostly all-news AM station that was turned into a conservative talk station with very little local news content. I had the most hopes for Radio One's launch.
Click to expand...

KTRK-TV better have a smooth transition before Dave Ward croaks or else they lose viewers and become #2 because they don't "like" the replacement(s).

But the problem is that Houstonians associate news with TV, not radio. Most people find the hourly repetition of the news annoying for long-term listening. Many people have been trained that commercial FM radio is all about music and they get frustrated with any banter, definitely with a spoken word format. Once that dial has moved it will be hard for a start-up to get them back.
 
KTN Corp said:
Many people have been trained that commercial FM radio is all about music and they get frustrated with any banter, definitely with a spoken word format.
Click to expand...

Yet that's not a problem for KUHF.
 
That's a good point about radio vs. TV in much of the Sunbelt.

Few of these markets have seen sustained all-news formats over DECADES, compared to the North and coasts.

Even sustaining all-news blocks in A.M. drive has been fleeting, unless you have a lot of transplanted Northerners familiar with these formats and/or technological research and tourism (Charlotte, Orlando). Before it sold all its stations, RKO Radio tried all-news in morning drive at WHBQ Memphis, which morphed into a talk show with an ousted sheriff and then a routine spoke-in-the-wheel host. WLAC in Nashville did all-news in morning drive for a few years in the 1980's.

All these attempts imploded, and these took place 25+ years ago. Long before the even more competitive, multi-platformed media environment of today.
 
KGO tends to do better in the San Jose books like a 4.5 while KCBS gets a 3.2 in San Jose and KLIV gets a 1.5 in San Jose.

KGO is lame in San Francisco its a 2.7. KCBS gets a 6.6 in the books. I say KGO-AM will keep the All-News format
 
WTOP-FM has the highest Cume for all-news radio stations in the country its at 6.7-7.4
KCBS-AM 740 and 106.9FM in San francisco has the second highest cume for the all News Stations in the country from 6.0-6.6.
 
recto101 said:
WTOP-FM has the highest Cume for all-news radio stations in the country its at 6.7-7.4
KCBS-AM 740 and 106.9FM in San francisco has the second highest cume for the all News Stations in the country from 6.0-6.6.
Click to expand...

You posted this in a number of locations on these boards, and it is not true.

6.7 or 7.4 or 6.0 are not "cume" numbers... they are share numbers. Please learn what share, cume and rating mean.

Shares in markets with fewer full coverage, viable signals tend to be higher. DC has 17 viable signals, while New York has 25 so you can't directly compare stations in this way.
 
TheBigA said:
KTN Corp said:
Many people have been trained that commercial FM radio is all about music and they get frustrated with any banter, definitely with a spoken word format.
Click to expand...

Yet that's not a problem for KUHF.
Click to expand...

NPR is still a niche format. Public radio has to overcome lots of stereotypes in order to go mainstream and that's after breaking misconceptions such as "FM = Music" and "News = TV". The lack of inflection--"boring public radio voice"--is probably the first stereotype to break, which KUHF breaks very well by hiring seasoned newscasters from commercial stations such as Rod Rice.
 
TheBigA said:
Here's my theory, and I'm looking for exceptions to prove me wrong: Radio right now is about heritage. If you have a heritage format, it's good for status quo. But if you flip to another format, no matter how smart the move looks on paper, you're dead. And it's not just in news/talk, although that's the board we're in now. I've watched a lot of music stations flip in the past few years, and none of them have gone on to great numbers.
Click to expand...
There's one noteworthy exception here in Denver

In the late 1990s (1999?), 99.5 was a Classical Music station & had the KVOD call letters (Which are today on Colorado Public Radio affiliate 88.1) before then-owner Tribune flipped it to Classic Rock & rebranded it as "99.5 The Hawk" (Today it's known as "99.5 The Mountain" & is owned by Entercomm)
Why? Habit. People listen to the same stations they always have. When they organize their pre-sets in their car, those buttons don't change. And radios don't encourage users to spin the dial any more. No dial! So there's no discovery going on. You can build it, but they won't come. You can advertise on TV or with billboards, and people don't pay attention. It's all spam to them.
Click to expand...
Ahh but in Denver, people DID tune into 99.5 & liked what they heard (Sure Classical Music fans hated losing KVOD. In fact, they LOATHED it. In fact, they considered the move to be SHEER & UTTER CONTEMPTUOUS BLASPHEMY ;D ) but Classic Rock fans of course LOVED it

Today, 99.5 is little more than a shell of its former self (And Classical Music fans are undoubtedly LTAO & saying things like We TOLD Ya..... etc) as it BARELY gets any listeners. Add to the fact that Classic Rock IS NOT the heritage format & I'd have to say that if there was ONE station in town (Other than KS-107.5 which itself doesn't broadcasts its own heritage format & is in much worse shape than 99.5 is) that's ripe for a format change, it would be 99.5

JMO though.....

Cheers ;D
 
Pat Cook said:
In the late 1990s (1999?), 99.5 was a Classical Music station & had the KVOD call letters (Which are today on Colorado Public Radio affiliate 88.1) before then-owner Tribune flipped it to Classic Rock & rebranded it as "99.5 The Hawk" (Today it's known as "99.5 The Mountain" & is owned by Entercomm)
I think my post said "the past few years." There are lots of examples of radio stations flipping formats with great success in the 90s and first few years of the 21st century. Not so much lately. The only out of the box success seems to be in Minneapolis, where CBS just flipped a station to country.
Click to expand...
 
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