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New Buffalo FM?

Received by the FCC:

NY BUFFALO , NY BNPFT-20180418ABO 94.1 MHZ E
NEW 202175 KIMTRON, INC
CP New Station.

Petitions to deny this application must be on file no later than 15 days from the date of the notice accepting this application for filing.

Kimtron, Inc. is Crawford Broadcasting. It looks like this is the long rumored translator for 970 AM.

Broadcasting on 94.1 would put an end to CBL-FM 94.1, public radio out of Toronto. They push a listenable signal into WNY off the CN tower. City-grade contour reaches the northern tip of Grand Island.

Also some action around Olean and in the NY/PA border area of WNY, where Colonial Radio Group transfers a bunch of facilities to On Air Inc.
 
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You know what is kind of funny about the 94.1 translator? I have not see the projected pattern but 970am is a very tight pattern aimed north from Hamburg to Toronto. The idea is to get Crawford across the border. This translator would need to do the opposite of the AM pattern and transmit south and maybe east of Buffalo. Away from the population. As my wife says “whatever”
 
Broadcasting on 94.1 would put an end to CBL-FM 94.1, public radio out of Toronto. They push a listenable signal into WNY off the CN tower.

Would the good people of Buffalo NY actually miss CBL-FM 94.1 if it went away though?
I'm actually from Toronto, Ontario myself, so forgive my ignorance if the demand really is strong. (or stronger than I realize)
 


Broadcasting on 94.1 would put an end to CBL-FM 94.1, public radio out of Toronto. They push a listenable signal into WNY off the CN tower. City-grade contour reaches the northern tip of Grand Island.


"City Grade" on FM is the 70 dbu signal. That signal for CBS just covers a few square miles of the NW corner of Niagra County. The 60 dbu does not touch Erie County anywhere, reaching, at best, somewhere close to half way between Niagra Falls and Tonawanda.

https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/fm-station-classes shows the definition of "city grade" which shows that you are mistakenly calling the 60 dbu "city grade" as that is the signal intensity of CBL at Grand Island.
 
For convenience sake I was using the "Local/Distant" contours from Radio-Locator.com. Some of us don't have time to navigate the arcane FCC system for the purpose of posting here. "Local" grade is pretty darn listenable here for Toronto FMs located on the CN Tower at 997'.
 
For convenience sake I was using the "Local/Distant" contours from Radio-Locator.com. Some of us don't have time to navigate the arcane FCC system for the purpose of posting here. "Local" grade is pretty darn listenable here for Toronto FMs located on the CN Tower at 997'.

"City Grade" is a very precise term in all the broadcast services, and it is defined by the FCC. It's been the primary criteria for determining coverage of the city of license for nearly 90 years and is really a simple and highly standardized metric. To say it is "arcane" sounds like an excuse for not knowing the terms of the industry you work in.

It's too bad that radio-locator.com removed the caveat of "for amusement purposes only" from its site. What they define as "local" appears to be the 60 dbu contour. For car reception, that is too limiting, and for indoor listening, it is excessive. 95% of FM AQH listening occurs within a station's 65 dbu contour.

The 60 dbu contour is, thought, the protected contour except for Class B stations, where it is 54 dbu. The not-so-amusing radio-locator does not apply those distinctions. Instead, they apply rather arbitrary but quite pretty colored concentric circles.
 
I didn't say that the standard was arcane. I said that their system - the website - is arcane. Trying to find information there if its not part of your everyday activities is anything but simple.

Some of use like pretty colored but not necessarily concentric circles. In this case since it's an FM at nearly 1,000', a circle is likely pretty accurate. Many of their other contours are not circular, and are based on predicted propagation of phased antenna arrays, beam-tilt, and other directional antenna techniques.

I'm not interested in arguing with you. I fully understand the logarithmic nature of dB power ratios. Seems to me that you're picking nits here. Next time I'll use "local" instead of "city grade." I hope that mollifies you.
 
I didn't say that the standard was arcane. I said that their system - the website - is arcane. Trying to find information there if its not part of your everyday activities is anything but simple.


I rather agree with you. And each time they do a redesign, it gets seemingly worse.

The FCC site should be run by AI, with plain text queries recognized and presented clearly.

Going to the FCC site on the repack is, shall we say, frustrating.

I'm not interested in arguing with you. I fully understand the logarithmic nature of dB power ratios. Seems to me that you're picking nits here. Next time I'll use "local" instead of "city grade." I hope that mollifies you.

More acceptable is primary and secondary coverage areas. Primary being "city grade" and secondary being the 60 for most services except B's...
 
Not really sure how many people here in Buffalo area listen to 94.1 anyway. We already have 2 public stations 94.5 WNED and 88.7 WBFO plus Blues on HD2. Isn’t it mostly CanCon?
 
It's CBC Music - think of BBC Radio 2.

CBC Music - CBL-FM is a Public broadcast radio station in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, providing Talk shows about Canadian music scene; Classical and Jazz music; Indie music, including Alternative Pop, Rock, R&B and Folk music; as well as delivering the best recordings and performances from Canada's concert halls, clubs, studios and festival stages.
 
I’m a big fan of afternoon shows, “Shift” and “Radio 2 Drive” on CBC 2. My in-home listening is done via the Internet. I’ll occasionally tune in at 94.1 when driving. But really, this won’t affect most of my listening. That said, I think it’s ridiculous 970AM qualifies for a repeater when it is already a repeater for 99.5FM. Of course, the FCC won’t pay any attention to that. It’ll just go along with it because technically 970 can apply for an FM repeater. Whatever!
 
Of course, the FCC won’t pay any attention to that. It’ll just go along with it because technically 970 can apply for an FM repeater. Whatever!

Of course, because the FCC knows other governments would jam US stations if they could too.

And the fact is that CBC Radio is supported by Canadian taxpayers, and it's seen its funding cut drastically over the last few years.
 
That said, I think it’s ridiculous 970AM qualifies for a repeater when it is already a repeater for 99.5FM. Of course, the FCC won’t pay any attention to that. It’ll just go along with it because technically 970 can apply for an FM repeater. Whatever!

Right now, 970 is carrying the same programming as 99.5.

There's nothing in its license that says it has to do so, whether under Crawford or any other owner. It's entirely possible that Crawford's intention in getting the translator is to launch a separate format on 970/94.1, or to sell off 970 and 94.1 together to someone else...or just to take advantage of this rare opportunity to add a translator to an AM license. AM stations that didn't use one of the four filing windows the FCC has opened in the last two years are now locked out of translator application opportunities for the foreseeable future, and from where I sit as a station broker, it's becoming clear that the smaller AMs that didn't get translators aren't going to be worth very much going forward, compared to the AMs that used the windows and got translators.

That said, 94.1 isn't a great choice for a frequency. There's way too much CBL-FM signal over much of the Buffalo metro (I'd note, for Sr. Gleason's benefit, that it performs significantly better in the real world than it looks on paper, thanks to the propagation paths straight over the lake from the CN Tower), and the unique CBC Music format does have devoted listeners on the US side of the border who'll squawk. (94.1 does very well going east, too - there's a big chunk of the Rochester market on the far western edge of Monroe County, around Brockport, that usually hears the CBC on 94.1 instead of Stephens Media's local class A, WZNE.)

But there may be a Plan B - WSPQ's application for 100.7 was dismissed this week because nobody there (either the seller or the would-be buyer who's now pulled out) followed through with the second part of the application process. While current FCC rules don't allow 970 to change its application to specify 100.7 instead of 94.1, there are proposals on the table at the FCC that would make that an acceptable minor change in the future. Yes, 100.7 is also a CN Tower FM channel, but CHIN-FM operates at lower power than CBL-FM and would thus cause less incoming interference to a Buffalo translator, assuming it's workable around Buddy's big new 100.5 signal from Grand Island.
 

That said, 94.1 isn't a great choice for a frequency. There's way too much CBL-FM signal over much of the Buffalo metro (I'd note, for Sr. Gleason's benefit, that it performs significantly better in the real world than it looks on paper, thanks to the propagation paths straight over the lake from the CN Tower), and the unique CBC Music format does have devoted listeners on the US side of the border who'll squawk.


The real proof here is in what I think of as the "Listening / Hearing" test. The data I have on the Buffalo Nielsen report does not seem to show the station, despite showing other Canadian non-subscribers such as CFLZ and CFNY and, of course, all the local non-subscribers like WDCX.

It seems that nearly every time I look at one of those "hearable" stations that has fringe coverage of a secondary market, there is just no listening. In fact, in the period of 1990 to 2014, CBL only showed four times all before 2001, with a share of 0.3.

The real issue is, as you say, that it's a lousy frequency for a translator. But it's not going to affect the listening to CBL, as CBL appears to have nearly no listening in the market and essentially none in Erie County.
 
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David, it's Niagara, not Niagra. Since the word appeared as Niagra twice in your post, I assume it was not a typo but a misspelling.
 
David, it's Niagara, not Niagra. Since the word appeared as Niagra twice in your post, I assume it was not a typo but a misspelling.

Unless spell check finds it, my spelling of English in general (yeah, I know, the word has Native American origins) is horrible. I deal best with Romance languages that are "what you hear is how you spell it".

So, yes, it was a misspelling.
 
Of course, because the FCC knows other governments would jam US stations if they could too.

This makes no sense.

These things aren't done on a whim, as you seem to be implying.

There are treaties between the US and Canada (and between the US and Mexico) that lay out in excruciatingly specific terms how interference issues are handled in border zones.

Until about 25 years ago, the rules provided for at least some interference protection on foreign soil. I don't recall the exact provisions, but there was a certain level of signal within which Canadian FM stations enjoyed protection from interference from US-licensed signals on US soil, and vice versa. Those rules were changed at the behest of broadcast owners on both sides of the border who wanted to be able to fill their own dials fuller without having to protect foreign signals.

After the rules changed, the floodgates opened. Even though CFNY, for instance, puts more than 60 dBu on US soil at the lakeshore in Orleans County, the US was able to license a new class A on 102.1 in Albion. I have video that I shot of that tower site just before the Albion FM signed on - CFNY was loud and clear in stereo on my car radio. Didn't matter -as long as the US station didn't interfere with CFNY anywhere on Canadian soil, the treaty allowed it. Same thing in Canada, where new signals popped up on 94.7 in Hamilton and 99.5 in Kitchener and 92.9 in Haldimand County and so on. They wreaked havoc on WNED and WDCX and WBUF, but only on Canadian soil.

I guess you could call it "jamming," but it's not the government doing it - it's commercial broadcasters, and they're doing exactly what international treaties allow. (You'll see another example next week when 92.1 signs on in Amherst, where CKPC-FM from Brantford is now perfectly listenable most of the time.)

And the fact is that CBC Radio is supported by Canadian taxpayers, and it's seen its funding cut drastically over the last few years.

Which has what to do with what, exactly? There's nothing whatsoever in the treaties (or the FCC rules derived from the treaties) that draws any distinction between publicly-funded stations and privately-owned stations. It's all mileages and contours. CBL-FM gets precisely the same protection as CHFI or CHUM-FM.

But that does remind me that Crawford will be under some scrutiny for another aspect of its 94.1 application - it can interfere as much as it wants with Toronto on US soil, but it can't interfere at all on Canadian soil. CBL-FM's status as a CBC station matters in that context, because it's the lone CBC Music (ex-Radio 2) outlet serving the entire Golden Horseshoe, all the way to Fort Erie. That, I think, is one reason why Crawford applied to put the translator up at the WDCX-FM site on Zimmerman Road and not in downtown Buffalo with 102.9 and 93.3 and a few others.

And in looking closely at the application, it looks like the 94.1 translator isn't going to be much of a signal over much US population anyway. In order to protect CBL-FM on Canadian soil, the Crawford engineers had to limit it to 150 watts and use a rather directional antenna up at the WDCX-FM site, aiming it not northwest at downtown Buffalo but rather northeast toward Chestnut Ridge Park. Its 60 dBu contour won't even get to Orchard Park or East Aurora. (Cue David to tell us that you need 65 dBu or more to get listeners anyway.)

I have lots of respect for the Crawford engineering team, but this just won't be much of a useful signal to much of anyone - in fact, from the looks of it, anywhere from downtown Buffalo north it's not really going to be a signal at all. Unless you're down in southern Erie County, the WDCX translator will cause interference more than it will provide an actual usable signal. (Which is something I've tried really hard to avoid doing with the translators I've filed for in these last few windows, but I digress...)
 
No anger intended - I've been neck-deep in interference contours for pretty much the entire last month, working on translator apps for clients ahead of the filing deadline this past Wednesday. If I'm a little intense about this stuff, that's probably why!
 
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