In some cases the xmtr site real estate is worth far more than the AM station.
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New Call Letters for AM 560 Are KZAC. A Question:
- Thread starter Daryl Lynn L.A.
- Start date
Mark Roberts has the best line in this thread: "If you're in radio, you have my sympathies: it's going to be a long, cold, harsh winter for you. I hope you've prepared accordingly."
In most of the cases where companies have sold tower sites to VB, it's the entire site, not just the towers themselves. Most of the iHeart-owned AM sites now belong to VB, towers and buildings.
VB maintains the sites (often not very well) and leases them back to the seller. In this case, VB would have taken over the lease arrangement with the agency that owns the land as well.
If there's someone out there with a serious interest in the 560 license, they know how to reach Mary Berner and make an offer. And if for some reason they don't, it's not hard to find a station broker to make the approach.
If 560 ends up being shut down, that's all the evidence needed that no such offer emerged (just as it didn't for WFAS, etc.)
AM is dying very rapidly now. It's very, very hard to justify making any investment in doing anything new on the band. That goes triple for trying to revive a dead frequency. Even if there's an auction and you can get, say, 1230 in White Plains or 720 in Vegas or any other AM that's gone dark, then what?
You have a license that you've just bought at auction for a non-zero sum. Now you need to spend well into seven figures to find a site, put up towers, hire one of the few firms that still knows how to license and build AMs, and congratulations - you've spent maybe a million and a half, maybe more, for a station that has no translator, no listener base, no revenue, and might be worth a few hundred thousand dollars if you can find someone to take it off your hands.
Would you invest in that if it were your money? I sure wouldn't.
VB maintains the sites (often not very well) and leases them back to the seller. In this case, VB would have taken over the lease arrangement with the agency that owns the land as well.
If there's someone out there with a serious interest in the 560 license, they know how to reach Mary Berner and make an offer. And if for some reason they don't, it's not hard to find a station broker to make the approach.
If 560 ends up being shut down, that's all the evidence needed that no such offer emerged (just as it didn't for WFAS, etc.)
AM is dying very rapidly now. It's very, very hard to justify making any investment in doing anything new on the band. That goes triple for trying to revive a dead frequency. Even if there's an auction and you can get, say, 1230 in White Plains or 720 in Vegas or any other AM that's gone dark, then what?
You have a license that you've just bought at auction for a non-zero sum. Now you need to spend well into seven figures to find a site, put up towers, hire one of the few firms that still knows how to license and build AMs, and congratulations - you've spent maybe a million and a half, maybe more, for a station that has no translator, no listener base, no revenue, and might be worth a few hundred thousand dollars if you can find someone to take it off your hands.
Would you invest in that if it were your money? I sure wouldn't.
I don't understand why Cumulus doesn't do in San Francisco what it does in Dallas. Let 810 have the better syndicated Westwood One talk shows, just as WBAP 820/93.3 has the better shows in Dallas. Then put lesser syndicated shows on 560, just as in Dallas, Cumulus puts secondary shows on 950 KLIF. That's how you run two talk stations in the same market on the cheap.
Surely the cost of leasing the tower from Vertical Bridge isn't greater than the money you earn from running a second schedule of syndicated talk shows on 560. People in SF are already used to tuning in 560 for conservative talk. It might be a new roster of shows but the format is the same.
It's not like 560 used to be Lithuanian Folk Music and you'd have to build a new audience. Until a few weeks ago, 560 had been SF's top conservative talk station. You're not starting from scratch. But while Hannity, Ramsey and Levin have migrated to 810, 560 can now start running Chris Plante, Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh. Those are actually Westwood One-Cumulus shows that 810 is NOT carrying. Cumulus is already paying their salaries but they are not yet heard in Market #5.
Then you pick up some independently syndicated shows that are popular. Maybe Joe Pags, formerly of WOAI San Antonio. Maybe Michael Berry from KTRH Houston. Maybe Lars Larson from KXL Portland. These shows are three hours every weekday and are successful syndicated conservative talk offerings.
Surely the cost of leasing the tower from Vertical Bridge isn't greater than the money you earn from running a second schedule of syndicated talk shows on 560. People in SF are already used to tuning in 560 for conservative talk. It might be a new roster of shows but the format is the same.
It's not like 560 used to be Lithuanian Folk Music and you'd have to build a new audience. Until a few weeks ago, 560 had been SF's top conservative talk station. You're not starting from scratch. But while Hannity, Ramsey and Levin have migrated to 810, 560 can now start running Chris Plante, Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh. Those are actually Westwood One-Cumulus shows that 810 is NOT carrying. Cumulus is already paying their salaries but they are not yet heard in Market #5.
Then you pick up some independently syndicated shows that are popular. Maybe Joe Pags, formerly of WOAI San Antonio. Maybe Michael Berry from KTRH Houston. Maybe Lars Larson from KXL Portland. These shows are three hours every weekday and are successful syndicated conservative talk offerings.
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KVTO does pretty well for itself in terms of reach. The 5/8-wave antenna at Berkeley's Aquatic Park, just the other side of the Bayshore Freeway from the bay shore, really gets out.
As for Chinese-language programming, see my comment in the "KSFO to 810" thread: https://radiodiscussions.com/threads/ksfo-to-810.774001/page-3#post-6770160 - which spurred an off-topic discussion for a few more posts, for which I humbly apologize.
Or no one wants it for what Cumulus wants for it.
Have you looked at the programming on WBAP? A lot of it is local, not syndicated. They need KLIF to carry the syndicated stuff.
San Francisco tried that with local talk on KGO and syndicated on KSFO. But they can't afford local talk on KGO anymore. My take is that Cumulus can't afford to run four AMs in San Francisco. Cumulus knows what their costs are for 560, and perhaps they don't think they can cover them with third string talk.
BTW the situation in Dallas may change since the ratings for WBAP have cratered.
At some point, you start running out of options. From listening to KSFO on the SDR in the past few days, it seems to me that most "talk shows" these days are just monologues delivered in a histrionic tone of voice, accompanied by per-inquiry commercials for various products of dubious merit. You might as well get that from a podcast, or a YouTube "channel". Since that's the best AM radio can seem to do, it's little wonder that it's in decline.
There are already two all-syndicated conservative talk outlets with low ratings. Would Cumulus really be better off to splinter their audience with a third?
KLIF with is 0.2 share 6+ probably isn't a model Cumulus is excited to emulate.
The funny part is that .2 is greater than iHeart's syndicated talk station KFXR, that gets a .1 share.
Dallas has the available audience for multiple conservative talk outlets (in theory---see PTBoardOp93's comment on KLIF's ratings---and TheBigA's about KFXR's). San Francisco doesn't. KSFO's best rating in the last six months was a 1.7. Put other conservative talkers on a sister station and you risk cannibalizing that.
It's not the Vertical Bridge lease alone---it's that and the lease of the land from the State Harbor Commission, which I'm told is a chunk. That number should be in a public record somewhere.
Again, not enough to risk splitting them.
And yet, WBAP even adding the FM signal last year hit record low shares right ahead of the election, while KRLD's move to Conservative Talk in many dayparts simultaneously drove it down to record low shares. At one point KERA-FM had a higher share than every Conservative talker in the market combined.
So maybe I should say---it doesn't even work in Dallas.
San Francisco is clearly a much less likely market to go adding more syndicated conservative talk, especially if you're competing with yourself.
An update---I've been saying the 560 tower land is leased from the State Harbor Commission, which apparently is where the lease originated in the 1930s.
However, the Port of San Francisco was established in 1957 by the City and County of San Francisco, and the land was transferred to the Port in 1968.
What I haven't been able to find so far, but which should be public record, is the lease agreement. Apparently the city doesn't keep those records online, but has a records request system.
www.sfport.com
I've got too much going on for that, so if anyone here wants to take a shot, go for it.
However, the Port of San Francisco was established in 1957 by the City and County of San Francisco, and the land was transferred to the Port in 1968.
What I haven't been able to find so far, but which should be public record, is the lease agreement. Apparently the city doesn't keep those records online, but has a records request system.
Public Records and Records Retention | SF Port
I've got too much going on for that, so if anyone here wants to take a shot, go for it.
As one who lived most of his life in Northern CA I can say you are absolutely right. 1050 is a dog signal-wise.
Dave B.
Relevant Radio is non-commercial right? I can't remember for sure. But could Cumulus see any tax credit for donating the license to a 501(c)(3)? Are there any out there willing to take it? 610 seems to be stable enough for Family Radio. I could also see a situation where KALW or KPFA could operate as a simulcast most of the time, but then break away to put music on the FM.
Dave B.
This idea was suggested in another thread and there is no benefit to either of those stations to add the additional expense of an AM station to what they do.
I have to agree. No matter what type of broadcasting you do (ethnic, non-comm, religious), an AM station is a declining, depreciating asset from day one---and using strict definitions, it might be more a liability than an asset.
This was where that idea entered the slipstream: https://radiodiscussions.com/threads/ksfo-to-810.774001/post-6775960
That was post #348 in the "KSFO to 810" thread. Posts 350 and 351 countered. Case held in abeyance by Judge Hagerty at post 352.
That was post #348 in the "KSFO to 810" thread. Posts 350 and 351 countered. Case held in abeyance by Judge Hagerty at post 352.
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