• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

New Car Radios....a sorry state.

As someone else mentioned, how the audio processing is being done. Over driving stages, excessive clipping "because we can" etc.
Up in the Twin Cities, KQRS FM used to sound good, competitive but good. Now it's just not listenable for a period of time. Sounds like an MP3 recording, and there's more life in FM than that.
 
kevtronics said:
It's all about the JD Power "customer experience" score. Any issue that causes a customer to take their car to the dealer, even if it's a simple misunderstanding and nothing is actually wrong with it, counts against the automaker.
Click to expand...
I did not know that about the Power score. Very valuable information.

That explains why my last three cars (2016, 2017, 2023) had HD turned off. When I inquired at the most recent purchase point, I was told by the service manager that they got too many complaints about the radio that were due to bad HD signals or the radio latching on to HD "noise" on adjacent channels as if it were a station that they opted for turning it off.

Occasionally someone would ask about it and they would show how to activate it. "Often?" I asked. "Maybe once every few years." So much for HD in a not-in-the-top-100-markets urban area.
 
kevtronics said:
It's all about the JD Power "customer experience" score. Any issue that causes a customer to take their car to the dealer, even if it's a simple misunderstanding and nothing is actually wrong with it, counts against the automaker. That's the reason why GM got rid of the manual DNR and wide/narrow bandwidth buttons on their radios in the '90s. People would complain about static and poor reception, and the dealer would instruct them to turn on the noise reduction and switch to narrow bandwidth to resolve it. This counted against them, so they solved it by making the DNR permanently on and implementing an automatic bandwidth adjustment based on signal strength.
Click to expand...
So you're basically saying the satisfaction scoring system is broken because it doesn't exempt even glaring driver misconceptions, causing design pressures to be irrationally re-weighted toward child-proofery, knowing that when knowledgeable owners suffer as a result, most will politely commiserate among their peers rather than being like the ones who drive their misunderstandings back to the lot to beat on their horns, demanding satisfaction. (To put it cynically.)

Cars are radio's last stand. The NAB needs to get on the automakers about this. Maybe physical buttons curtly labeled "DNR" and "narrow/wide" confused some people back then. But everything is touch screens now, which means a "Quality" button could be in the radio settings that showed a plain English prompt like this:
Code: 
How should your radio handle weak and scratchy FM/AM signals?

(   )   Reduce the sound's clarity when doing so will minimize static
( ■ )   Keep the sound maximally clear even when static is present

[ ✔ ]  Reduce stereo when doing so would prevent additional static

Dealers could be instructed to show each buyer this screen, including how to find it again, as part of their overall car features walk-throughs after making each sale.
 
DavidEduardo said:
I did not know that about the Power score. Very valuable information.
Click to expand...
I didn't either. This actually lessens the importance of those scores in my mind. Now they don't look like metrics for true excellence, but for excellence plus successful fool-proofing. Which means I might end up disliking elements of a well-rated car for reasons akin to why arthritis sufferers hate child-proof lids.
That explains why my last three cars (2016, 2017, 2023) had HD turned off. When I inquired at the most recent purchase point, I was told by the service manager that they got too many complaints about the radio that were due to bad HD signals or the radio latching on to HD "noise" on adjacent channels as if it were a station that they opted for turning it off. Occasionally someone would ask about it and they would show how to activate it. "Often?" I asked. "Maybe once every few years." So much for HD in a not-in-the-top-100-markets urban area.
Click to expand...
This is another giant ball-drop by the NAB. About 3 million cars are sold each year in this country. That means almost that many potential HD2+ listeners are running through radio's fingers every year. Dealers should be getting instructions to ask all buyers if they want HD enabled. The NAB needs to argue to the automakers that unlike in the 1990s, when every car feature had a button in plain sight, nests of menus many drivers won't ever explore now hide vital features like this. Having dealers ask a question as fundamental as "do you want this radio set to let you hear ALL the stations where ever you're driving?" is essential.
 
yeoldeschool said:
This is another giant ball-drop by the NAB. About 3 million cars are sold each year in this country. That means almost that many potential HD2+ listeners are running through radio's fingers every year. Dealers should be getting instructions to ask all buyers if they want HD enabled. The NAB needs to argue to the automakers that unlike in the 1990s, when every car feature had a button in plain sight, nests of menus many drivers won't ever explore now hide vital features like this. Having dealers ask a question as fundamental as "do you want this radio set to let you hear ALL the stations where ever you're driving?" is essential.
Click to expand...
When a new car is delivered, the main things explained to the buyer are safety features like blind spot alerts, navigation controls such as maps and destination guidance, how to use the heater and AC and how to connect their smart phone. All of that takes a lot of time, much more than just a few years ago.

Since many if not most markets have nothing operating on HD except audio to feed translators and in markets with separate HD services it is more often foreign language or religious. There is little to offer, and dealers have vastly more things to cover in delivering a car than HD radio.

And, increasingly, buyers don't want to know how to get any stations at all. They want to connect to either satellite of streaming, not over the air radio with all the commercials.

I bought my newest car last year. I have had it over 18 months now. I have never listened to over the air radio on it except when going to LA where I want to hear the stations I used to work with for a bit. Otherwise, never.
 
DavidEduardo said:
When a new car is delivered, the main things explained to the buyer are safety features like blind spot alerts, navigation controls such as maps and destination guidance, how to use the heater and AC and how to connect their smart phone. All of that takes a lot of time, much more than just a few years ago.

Since many if not most markets have nothing operating on HD except audio to feed translators and in markets with separate HD services it is more often foreign language or religious. There is little to offer, and dealers have vastly more things to cover in delivering a car than HD radio.

And, increasingly, buyers don't want to know how to get any stations at all. They want to connect to either satellite of streaming, not over the air radio with all the commercials.

I bought my newest car last year. I have had it over 18 months now. I have never listened to over the air radio on it except when going to LA where I want to hear the stations I used to work with for a bit. Otherwise, never.
Click to expand...
David! You're the Radio Guy! I'm shocked!
That's like Pete Rose saying he never watches Baseball! 😂
 
yeoldeschool said:
So you're basically saying the satisfaction scoring system is broken because it doesn't exempt even glaring driver misconceptions, causing design pressures to be irrationally re-weighted toward child-proofery, knowing that when knowledgeable owners suffer as a result, most will politely commiserate among their peers rather than being like the ones who drive their misunderstandings back to the lot to beat on their horns, demanding satisfaction. (To put it cynically.)
Click to expand...
Yes, and that's why automakers like Mazda and Audi who tried to use a console-mounted control wheel rather than a touchscreen are now giving up and following the trend of using touchscreens. The control wheel has a steeper learning curve, but once you figure it out, it's safer and less distracting to use while driving than a touchscreen. But customers say "I can't figure this out!" and "I want a touchscreen!", so a touchscreen they shall get, even if it's actually worse.
 
kevtronics said:
Yes, and that's why automakers like Mazda and Audi who tried to use a console-mounted control wheel rather than a touchscreen are now giving up and following the trend of using touchscreens. The control wheel has a steeper learning curve, but once you figure it out, it's safer and less distracting to use while driving than a touchscreen. But customers say "I can't figure this out!" and "I want a touchscreen!", so a touchscreen they shall get, even if it's actually worse.
Click to expand...
My new Honda has steering wheel controls for volume, preset stations and input.
Other settings like the equalizer are touch screen but only a fool would try to set tone settings while driving.
Ok on second thought there are no shortage of fools.
 
yeoldeschool said:
I can't tell what's more demoralizing. Automakers allowing people's complaints about static to stampede them into ruining the sound even for drivers with good reception... or so many people thinking static is a radio defect, and not a location issue, that their complaint volume can cause that stampede.
Click to expand...

Better fidelity receivers and speakers reveal more static and noise than bad ones. The level of what the audience won't accept is pretty much unchanged.
 
kevtronics said:
It's all about the JD Power "customer experience" score. Any issue that causes a customer to take their car to the dealer, even if it's a simple misunderstanding and nothing is actually wrong with it, counts against the automaker.
Click to expand...

Most new cars are fairly mechanically reliable. The bad J.D. Power scores are usually issues with overly complex or poorly understood infotainment functions.
 
michael hagerty said:
Better fidelity receivers and speakers reveal more static and noise than bad ones. The level of what the audience won't accept is pretty much unchanged.
Click to expand...
So you're basically implying that when cars came with stock (lower fidelity, partially noise-masking) stereo systems, the sorts who would have misunderstood static as receiver defects were the same sorts who also never would have sprung for premium sound systems, systems that would have revealed all those irritations in full -- inherently canceling out the possibility of those sorts complaining? And that only now that premium sound systems have become stock, are those types complaining and spoiling it for the rest of us?

If so, then the obvious solution to this would be for automakers to begin offering premium radio electronics to feed their cars' default premium sound systems. But then, because people don't buy radios, the automakers wouldn't think to make or offer any premium radios in the first place...

This is all becoming dizzyingly Pythonesque in its meticulously interwoven absurdities! :eek:
 
yeoldeschool said:
So you're basically implying that when cars came with stock (lower fidelity, partially noise-masking) stereo systems, the sorts who would have misunderstood static as receiver defects were the same sorts who also never would have sprung for premium sound systems, systems that would have revealed all those irritations in full -- inherently canceling out the possibility of those sorts complaining? And that only now that premium sound systems have become stock, are those types complaining and spoiling it for the rest of us?
Click to expand...

I'm saying the fault is within the medium and not within the customer.

yeoldeschool said:
If so, then the obvious solution to this would be for automakers to begin offering premium radio electronics to feed their cars' default premium sound systems. But then, because people don't buy radios, the automakers wouldn't think to make or offer any premium radios in the first place...
Click to expand...

I'm not going to go looking, but I'm willing to bet that if there were a survey of people who have $1,000-plus audio systems in their vehicles in the past decade, OTA radio was never going to be better than third on their list of preferred media.

yeoldeschool said:
This is all becoming dizzyingly Pythonesque in its meticulously interwoven absurdities! :eek:
Click to expand...

"There's a penguin on top of the television set car audio system."
 
Today I rented a Ford Edge, and I must say, I don't care much for the touchscreen-is-everything approach.

And I realize this is off topic, but what is it with gear shift "knobs"? What was wrong with levers? They take up a bit more space I suppose, but so what?

c
 
cc333 said:
Today I rented a Ford Edge, and I must say, I don't care much for the touchscreen-is-everything approach.
Click to expand...
My preference is for a parallel audio and touch screen system. My newer car has a steering wheel button easily accessed with the left thumb that beeps and lets me tell the car what to do. If I am stopped or parked, I can use the touch screen if I want, but having both is safer and easier.
cc333 said:
And I realize this is off topic, but what is it with gear shift "knobs"? What was wrong with levers? They take up a bit more space I suppose, but so what?
Click to expand...
Oh, you should acquaint yourself with the Chrysler Corp. 50's and 60's push button shift panels.

1727500056752.png
 
DavidEduardo said:
My preference is for a parallel audio and touch screen system. My newer car has a steering wheel button easily accessed with the left thumb that beeps and lets me tell the car what to do. If I am stopped or parked, I can use the touch screen if I want, but having both is safer and easier.

Oh, you should acquaint yourself with the Chrysler Corp. 50's and 60's push button shift panels
Click to expand...
Edsels had their pushbuttons right on the steering wheel.
1727500904822.png
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom