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New Freedom Tower As Transmission Site
- Thread starter HHH
- Start date
Engineering management types who should know, have said some of the other NYC TV stations have "no interest" in moving again.
They just spent a fortune relocating and rebuilding at the ESB, and so few of their viewers actually use the over-the-air signal that the cost of another state-of-the-art facility just can't be justified. But who knows for sure?
As to FM, WPAT will almost certainly make the move so that it can reclaim its fully legal transmitting status. It is short spaced at the ESB, and operating under temporary permission from the FCC since its WTC transmitter was knocked down on 9-11.
Columbia University's WKCR has expressed interest in moving back downtown for a better signal. It currently transmits from Times Square.
Stations that definitely will not be moving are WHTZ and WCBS, both of which can't move their transmitters any closer than they are now to co-channel stations in the Philadelphia area.
They just spent a fortune relocating and rebuilding at the ESB, and so few of their viewers actually use the over-the-air signal that the cost of another state-of-the-art facility just can't be justified. But who knows for sure?
As to FM, WPAT will almost certainly make the move so that it can reclaim its fully legal transmitting status. It is short spaced at the ESB, and operating under temporary permission from the FCC since its WTC transmitter was knocked down on 9-11.
Columbia University's WKCR has expressed interest in moving back downtown for a better signal. It currently transmits from Times Square.
Stations that definitely will not be moving are WHTZ and WCBS, both of which can't move their transmitters any closer than they are now to co-channel stations in the Philadelphia area.
In the old days when OTA TV was king it would have been a definite yes, but now that a very small percentage of viewers watch OTA signals, it isn't worth the trouble.
Some of the stuff you see in the FCC database is there to protect the pre-9/11 contours. If the NYC stations let those get deleted, there's a chance another station could get licensed in a way that would not allow the NYC station to move there at some point down the road. I'm sure that once the new 1WTC is done, a final decision will need to be made.
Will the OTA signal be better at 1WTC? If so, I am wondering if it is forward thinking on NBC's part. A lot of people are cutting the cord. I live in Atlanta. I know several folks that have cut the cord and are using the digital OTA to get network television. They watch lots of shows via the web and Roku.
TimeIsTight said:
I've mentioned this before, but staying is short sighted. By the end of the decade, there's several building in midtown that are or will be going up that will dwarf ESB and even peak past 1WTC. Barry is also spot on, the younger generation actually loves free HD TV paired with Netflix and Hulu. I hear it a lot. OTA is going no where.
mikerock said:
Fully agree and understood. My subtext of that callout was this contrasts to the trend in radio, conventional wisdom on OTA TV and like anything else these days, where they go so do the future $$...
As of November 2011, in the New York Designated Market Area, the wired cable and Alternate Delivery System, like satellite, market penetration was 96.6%. That means only 3.4% of the potential audience was watching the over-the-air signals in the entire New York TV market.
http://admin.tvb.org/iframe/dma/Cable_and_ADS_Penetration_by_DMA.asp?sortby=DMAWiredCable -Source
So, the questions for the bean counters when considering the value of the move is: How much can a Freedom Tower location improve the signal to that 3.4%, when compared to the ESB and can any improvement be justified on a cost effective basis?
Yes, those buildings the size of the ESB are planned, but won't be built until the office real estate market recovers in Manhattan, and that recovery could be many years away. The Freedom Tower itself will contribute to an oversupply of available office space that will further delay them.
No doubt, the broadcast consultant engineers have some idea of what those planned buildings will do to their OTA signals, but they will also have plenty of notice before those new buildings reach threatening heights. They will have enough time to move their transmitters if they have to. In the meantime, they can continue to use the fairly new digital facilities at the ESB, and install whatever is then state-of-the-art equipment if they are ever forced to move.
And when it comes to the "internet TV watchers," like me, at some point the cable companies will figure out a way to bring them back to being regular cable customers, even if it means charging for internet-TV bandwidth usage, and making regular cable cheaper. They are not going to let the younger generation stop the lifetime money flow that they expect to help them remain profitable and to amortize the huge investment they have in cables and other infrastructure.
http://admin.tvb.org/iframe/dma/Cable_and_ADS_Penetration_by_DMA.asp?sortby=DMAWiredCable -Source
So, the questions for the bean counters when considering the value of the move is: How much can a Freedom Tower location improve the signal to that 3.4%, when compared to the ESB and can any improvement be justified on a cost effective basis?
Yes, those buildings the size of the ESB are planned, but won't be built until the office real estate market recovers in Manhattan, and that recovery could be many years away. The Freedom Tower itself will contribute to an oversupply of available office space that will further delay them.
No doubt, the broadcast consultant engineers have some idea of what those planned buildings will do to their OTA signals, but they will also have plenty of notice before those new buildings reach threatening heights. They will have enough time to move their transmitters if they have to. In the meantime, they can continue to use the fairly new digital facilities at the ESB, and install whatever is then state-of-the-art equipment if they are ever forced to move.
And when it comes to the "internet TV watchers," like me, at some point the cable companies will figure out a way to bring them back to being regular cable customers, even if it means charging for internet-TV bandwidth usage, and making regular cable cheaper. They are not going to let the younger generation stop the lifetime money flow that they expect to help them remain profitable and to amortize the huge investment they have in cables and other infrastructure.
I know a lot of people, including me, that use Netflix and Hulu+ for the "cable" stuff and watch things like the NFL on OTA TV.
I live about 75 miles north of Philly and 50 west of NYC. Can't see any of the NYC stations due to a rather large 1200' mountain directly to my east. Philly, however, comes in with no problem. This is with a small Log-periodic on the chimney pointed at Philly.
Some stations, like WKCR will not be able to move back to 1 WTC with the same power or pattern as before. A few stations took advantage of their new licensed location at ESB to make some moves. I was part of one of those at the Jersey shore.
WPAT isn't licensed for the ESB site, yet. There is an application to move there permanently.
What is interesting is that if the TV's vacate ESB, the FM's could move higher to get above the other buildings that are going to crop up around ESB. This is going to make the even lower 4 Times Square backup site even less appealing now, if it is in a "valley" of taller buildings.
I live about 75 miles north of Philly and 50 west of NYC. Can't see any of the NYC stations due to a rather large 1200' mountain directly to my east. Philly, however, comes in with no problem. This is with a small Log-periodic on the chimney pointed at Philly.
Some stations, like WKCR will not be able to move back to 1 WTC with the same power or pattern as before. A few stations took advantage of their new licensed location at ESB to make some moves. I was part of one of those at the Jersey shore.
WPAT isn't licensed for the ESB site, yet. There is an application to move there permanently.
What is interesting is that if the TV's vacate ESB, the FM's could move higher to get above the other buildings that are going to crop up around ESB. This is going to make the even lower 4 Times Square backup site even less appealing now, if it is in a "valley" of taller buildings.
TimeIsTight said:
Logic of survey is flawed. Plenty of people like myself have BOTH, as in I only feel like being ripped off for one box, so the other TVs just pull OTA. So I would have answered yes to this kind of survey, but it's still not C-B=A.
I've gotta tell you, "knowing a lot of people" is not exactly accurate research. Chances are if you post on this board, you're technologically inclined. It's also likely that a lot of people you know are also well versed in technology.
I'll bet any amount of money that the vast majority of the viewing public is not aware that you can still get TV signals over the air, nor are they interested in installing an antenna.
I'll bet any amount of money that the vast majority of the viewing public is not aware that you can still get TV signals over the air, nor are they interested in installing an antenna.
It will always be Freedom Tower to me!
Let "1WTC" name be retired as a symbol of our letting our guard down and as a memorial to those who needlessly lost their lives and the resilience and courage of those who stepped up to help get things back to normal and make sure it never happens again. And that job continues.
Back to the topic:
WNBC may be exploring the possibility but once they, and the other stations, realize the cost involved in the formal engineering, rent, and commitment, they will opt out as OTA will soon be dead.
I have stated it before, when we had analogue, I had ~30 portable channels. Now, I have none. I have to have an outdoor antenna.
The last time I was in New Jersey, I couldn't even scan for all of The "New York 7" from Sea Bright.
The frustration of freezing and blacking out will doom OTA.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
Let "1WTC" name be retired as a symbol of our letting our guard down and as a memorial to those who needlessly lost their lives and the resilience and courage of those who stepped up to help get things back to normal and make sure it never happens again. And that job continues.
Back to the topic:
WNBC may be exploring the possibility but once they, and the other stations, realize the cost involved in the formal engineering, rent, and commitment, they will opt out as OTA will soon be dead.
I have stated it before, when we had analogue, I had ~30 portable channels. Now, I have none. I have to have an outdoor antenna.
The last time I was in New Jersey, I couldn't even scan for all of The "New York 7" from Sea Bright.
The frustration of freezing and blacking out will doom OTA.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
NY a region of over 10 million potential viewers has quite a few homes which either from choice or economics choose to not pay for cable service. Especially in these hard economic times and for those living in buildings with house antenna systems in the outer boroughs, OTA is essential. No one in their right mind gives up spectrum. Those in here who believe the average person has all of the technological goodies to receive Netflix and Hulu etc (which also require a monthly fee) has their heads in the sand. Drive around parts of Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx, or areas of New Jersey around Newark and the Oranges and you'll find people who don't own Hi Def TV's but do use converters for their old sets. It's this group which needs OTA TV to remain so that their reception of programs will continue. I've just switched to Fios and my monthly bill is nearly $150 a month after taxes are added. Many lower middle class incomes can not afford a bill like this every month.
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