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New KCBS Sounders

S

sloux

KCBS has rolled out all-new sounders this morning. They are all derivatives of the signature four-note sounder they have used for years, with quite a bit more edge. I flipped over to KFRC to listen to them in stereo, and I have to say it probably helps the imaging for the younger crowd CBS is seeking.

Pondering the stereo thing more, I'm wondering if CBS could run the news room desk mics through some processing to provide just a tad bit of faux stereo separation.

Any thoughts?
 
When KTRB 860 was AM-STEREO, and in Modesto (during their
country music years in the early-1990s), DJ Michael J. Stewart
was on left-channel and his phone callers or in-studio guests
were in right-channel...

In the case of KFRC (or, as I like to call 106.9, the faux KCBS-FM),
why not do that with the deskroom mics? It'll certainly get one's
attention if they have 'stereo-ears'...
--jay
 
sloux said:
KCBS has rolled out all-new sounders this morning. They are all derivatives of the signature four-note sounder they have used for years, with quite a bit more edge. I flipped over to KFRC to listen to them in stereo, and I have to say it probably helps the imaging for the younger crowd CBS is seeking.

Pondering the stereo thing more, I'm wondering if CBS could run the news room desk mics through some processing to provide just a tad bit of faux stereo separation.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

The human voice is not intrinsicly a stereo event (with the possible exception of Gyuto Monk vocalizations, but KCBS dropped the Gyuto Monks show years ago as it just wasn't making inroads)...so why process desk mics thus? Faux stereo, as delay enhanced L-R doubling, would phase cancel when the fm signal drops and falls to mono.

The volume dynamics on the FM could use some attention, maybe, especially with the new sounders. Nothing like a good punch in the ears between traffic and weather...
 
DeadAudicy said:
The human voice is not intrinsicly a stereo event (with the possible exception of Gyuto Monk vocalizations, but KCBS dropped the Gyuto Monks show years ago as it just wasn't making inroads)...so why process desk mics thus? Faux stereo, as delay enhanced L-R doubling, would phase cancel when the fm signal drops and falls to mono.
Click to expand...

I disagree the human voice is not "a stereo event" as you put it. Most sound contains enough energy to interact with the surrounding environment, including the voice. A pair of ears can distinguish the direct sound from the reverberant sound to determine location and distance. A single microphone records a very unnatural and flat sound which does not occur in real life, by the nature of the microphone's overwhelming sensitivity to direct sound vs. reverberant sound.

A non-technical comparison would be to listen to the typical FM DJ talker and compare it with the KCBS newsdesk. The DJ talker seems alive, if perhaps a bit unnaturally punchy, compared to the flatness of the sound from the newsdesk.

I'm not saying lets run the anchors through a flange unit, just put a little pizzaz in the voice, maybe with a few milliseconds delay inserted. As for the phase cancelling, I do not see that as being a major complaint. Stereo sources often get combined into a monural signal, and it's no secret phase cancellation is part of that effect. It's also called poor reception. Get beyond the tunnel/hill/overpass and it will improve.
 
Well, yes of course the vocal environment is stereo as it is captured by the ear, but be careful of the words you miss. Intrinsically the voice is a singular source of sound.

Since (ideally) anchors are in the deadest possible room, reflections cannot be a consideration (and in fact aren't, in any case, an indication of source location...the brain locates an audio source with time based info from the ears).

There is a very small spectrum of delay that will work for stereo synthesis. A millisecond interval too short, and there is no effect, too long, and there is audible doubling...not what you want in a newscast. Mixed to mono, the appropriately delayed duplicates can cancel enough to put the voice too far back in the program dynamic to be useful to the immediacy of a newscast. A several decibel drop during the 20 seconds it takes to get through the Waldo Tunnel is just about enough to miss a droll Osgood punchline.

Next we'll discuss the evils of sum+difference (or - as the case may be).

I do believe KPIX FM used true stereo mics back when...but listeners gave 2 s***s. Probably not a big priority for KCBS.
Somebody who wants a quick description of the freeway ahead, or whether it'll rain on Thanksgiving isn't terribly thrilled by one voice to the left and one to the right, a novelty that wears thin.

[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]KCBS goes 7.1. Stay tuned![/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
 
DeadAudicy said:
Well, yes of course the vocal environment is stereo as it is captured by the ear, but be careful of the words you miss. Intrinsically the voice is a singular source of sound.

Since (ideally) anchors are in the deadest possible room, reflections cannot be a consideration (and in fact aren't, in any case, an indication of source location...the brain locates an audio source with time based info from the ears).

There is a very small spectrum of delay that will work for stereo synthesis. A millisecond interval too short, and there is no effect, too long, and there is audible doubling...not what you want in a newscast. Mixed to mono, the appropriately delayed duplicates can cancel enough to put the voice too far back in the program dynamic to be useful to the immediacy of a newscast. A several decibel drop during the 20 seconds it takes to get through the Waldo Tunnel is just about enough to miss a droll Osgood punchline.

Next we'll discuss the evils of sum+difference (or - as the case may be).

I do believe KPIX FM used true stereo mics back when...but listeners gave 2 s***s. Probably not a big priority for KCBS.
Somebody who wants a quick description of the freeway ahead, or whether it'll rain on Thanksgiving isn't terribly thrilled by one voice to the left and one to the right, a novelty that wears thin.

[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]KCBS goes 7.1. Stay tuned![/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
Click to expand...

How about KCBS version 740.1 and KFRC Version 610 1061 997 1069!

I'll have to tun in tonight to hear how the news sounds sound on AM.
 
Does anyone know how much of the audio chain at KCBS actually supports stereo? It might be a seriously large investment (for some of the programming at least).

Dave B.
 
DaveBayArea said:
Does anyone know how much of the audio chain at KCBS actually supports stereo? It might be a seriously large investment (for some of the programming at least).

Dave B.
Click to expand...
I can tell you by listening to 106.9 that all the sounders and commercial SFX are in stereo, which leads me to believe the KCBS studio(s) is/are set up for stereo. I can't imagine building them any other way, as it would limit flexibility of using one studio or another for a particular purpose. So I'll go out on a limb and suggest the signal chain is stereo right up to the front end of the STL.
 
sloux said:
KCBS has rolled out all-new sounders this morning. They are all derivatives of the signature four-note sounder they have used for years, with quite a bit more edge. I flipped over to KFRC to listen to them in stereo, and I have to say it probably helps the imaging for the younger crowd CBS is seeking.

Pondering the stereo thing more, I'm wondering if CBS could run the news room desk mics through some processing to provide just a tad bit of faux stereo separation.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I was listening to KCBS-AM the other day. What a great sounding station and the audio sounds nice and compressed. Reminds me of the way KGO sounded 20 years ago.
 
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