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New KTRB Update

H

HHalland

The thing of it is, that this is a brand new radio station. How many of you have started a new radio station? As you probably know AM radio is not exactly a real popular place right now. Mr. Pappas and his group have done something that most of us would never do. Nobody would pour out all of this money, and sweat to build a station that has gotten such bad press already and it isn't really even up to speed yet you know? The family wanted a SF station for craps sakes, and they did it. How many owners do you know really ever DO what they say they'll do.

I know, I know I was asked to leave this project, but I guess they had a good reason. I certainly didn't mean to do anything that would upset the progress, but you see it was because I was SO involed in this. I can't say anything more here..but there's no sour grapes here. I wish them all of the very best and more.

Folks I was darn near crying myself to sleep last night thinking about what an amazing and noble effort this is. A 50KW AM station in a town that really seems to barely support most of the FM signals, and in an economic time where the FMs are all trying to shove that HD business at us...and internet stations, and satellite, and iPod, and mp3..my mind is like a mixmaster set to puree over this. What a hurculean effort, what a fine and forward thinking ideaman Mr. Pappas. is. Indeed, they have finally done it. No other major market will have such a station, just us. According to the records I see. some major cities might have a few forced "move-in" stations at, 1190 1570, or 1480 or some little peanut deal licensed to a little town nearby who wants to be a big player..most operating with 9 or 10 towers and running like 112 watts directional at night and playing that garbage Sporting News Radio, or TalkSat brokered phony-baloney talk show pablum that pushes useless books that Barnes and Noble wouldn't put out for 80% off, but nobody has a full quieting 50KW mind melter signal like this at the low end of the dial actually licensed to the MAJOR metro city like San Fransisco! It's a very historic and awesome time for us.

So we all need to support it no matter what the final outcome is. Bill and I agree on this one, and we will listen to 860 no matter what. Even if it goes sports, or Asian, or all woman or something..I don't know, I just....Um, ...excuse me
 
Mr. Pappas and his group have done something that most of us would never do. Nobody would pour out all of this money, and sweat to build a station that has gotten such bad press already and it isn't really even up to speed yet you know? The family wanted a SF station for craps sakes, and they did it. How many owners do you know really ever DO what they say they'll do.
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Newsperson replies:

Harry built the station becasue it is a major market and he expects to make money!

I know other station owners who say they will not replace any equipment until it breaks for the final time. In this case they would do (or not do) as they said they would.
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Folks I was darn near crying myself to sleep last night thinking about what an amazing and noble effort this is. A 50KW AM station in a town that really seems to barely support most of the FM stations.
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Newsperson replies again:

Most of the FM stations here (SF) are making tons of money. They are loaded with spots from $ 450.00 to $ 1,000.00 and also do remotes on weekends. No one is starving here.

Yes there is an emotional attachment to KTRB for Harry since it has been in the family for years, however the bottom line is that he went forward with this project and spent the necessary dollars to make a profit in the long run.

Is there any other compelling reason?

Newsperson
 
I agree with Newsperson. as a Station owner and one who is looking to buy stations, Harry is a FIRST CLASS business man as well as Jim who he is grooming to take over the empire. A 50KW station in SF the day it signed on is worth it's weight in GOLD!!!
I commend Harry for living the Dream of KTRB where Mike, Pete & Harry got their start. He is a very smart broadcaster but also cares about people!!!!!! and good Broadcasting!!!
Hell I and my group have been trying to make a deal on 1260 for two plus years and it now has been sold at 14M, althought we wanted it bad to do KYA we felt the price was too high. But Bruce held his ground and sold it for more than we thought was feasible to pay and still make a profit!!!!!
 
Please stop crying about all the money Harry Pappas is pouring into the KTRB project. Harry is one of the wealthiest people you will ever meet, not to mention that he is hard working and lucky.
KTRB was run into the ground by Bessie Pappas (lost 2 million dollars in her few years of ownership . . . when 2 million was real money) while Harry theoretically advised her.
It always appeared that he wanted her out and this seems to be the case.

Unless things have changed, Harry will have a mediocre station, and he will make money.

DD
 
Yeah, this is the biggest bunch of BS. A 50kW AM, even being on the "unsexy" band, in San Francisco still has a stick value of many millions of dollars. How much is a station in market #80-something with four people listening worth?
 
Yeah, this is the biggest bunch of BS. A 50kW AM, even being on the "unsexy" band, in San Francisco still has a stick value of many millions of dollars. How much is a station in market #80-something with four people listening worth?
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Newsperson replies:

An AM station in market 80 can certainally be worth millions of dollars. As an example Reno, which is well over market 100 has a 50KW with thousands of listeners and number one in many time slots. It was purchased by Citadel in 1992 for only a million dollars. The station was country and needed growth. They puchased the talk programing rights from KOH in 1993 for another million dollars. The station now bills over a million dollars.

There are other stations that are not 50KW even in unrated markets that make money are are worth in the hundreds of thousand of dollars.

The point brought up is the value of KTRB in San Francsico is huge (maybe 20 million) without any business on it. It will take time for KTRB to develop its programing, audience and advertising revenue. Regardless, with or without revenue KTRB has that value becasue it is in San Francisco.

Anyway my point is that all markets have vaule regardless of size, its how you utilize them. Do you remember the woman who said that it is not always size but how you use it that matters?

Oh...why do you feel that AM is unsexy?

I will look for your replies.

Newsperson
 
"Oh...why do you feel that AM is unsexy?"

The guy who said that was probably speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But logically, what could KTRB become that is of much interest to the people who post here? The market doesn't need another all-news station (KCBS and KQED fill the need), or yet another talk station with syndicated talk hosts - KNEW is low rated despite having the popular Savage-Weiner, the Quake barely rates...and does anybody around here listen to that Salem station? Building a locally hosted news/talk outlet to compete with KGO would be a huge undertaking, not to mention expensive since you'd probably need to hire some big names to make people pay attention. Despite the minor excitement on the SF Board about the 1340 Oldies station in Monterey, few people want to listen to music on low-fidelity monaural AM - that IS unsexy.

So what's left - religious, foreign language, or a station brokered for infomercials? A major AM Asian news/talk station might fill a need, but most of us posting here don't speak Mandarin or Cantonese.
 
Lkeller said:
"Oh...why do you feel that AM is unsexy?"

The guy who said that was probably speaking somewhat tongue-in-cheek. But logically, what could KTRB become that is of much interest to the people who post here? The market doesn't need another all-news station (KCBS and KQED fill the need), or yet another talk station with syndicated talk hosts - KNEW is low rated despite having the popular Savage-Weiner, the Quake barely rates...and does anybody around here listen to that Salem station? Building a locally hosted news/talk outlet to compete with KGO would be a huge undertaking, not to mention expensive since you'd probably need to hire some big names to make people pay attention. Despite the minor excitement on the SF Board about the 1340 Oldies station in Monterey, few people want to listen to music on low-fidelity monaural AM - that IS unsexy.

So what's left - religious, foreign language, or a station brokered for infomercials? A major AM Asian news/talk station might fill a need, but most of us posting here don't speak Mandarin or Cantonese.
Click to expand...
How about Adult Standards, to fill the void left by KABL-960? Pappas currently operates an Adult Standards station in Modesto (KMPH-840) in a market served by another Adult Standards Station (KVIN-920).
 
"How about Adult Standards, to fill the void left by KABL-960?"

Now that's a great idea. Though I'm in a younger demographic than that - I did enjoy listening to KABL from time to time. I believe there's syndicated programming - "Music of Our Lives" - with hosts like Wink Martindale and Gary Owens - so it could be done inexpensively. And most people are used to hearing that music on AM radio in monaural.

But I've been lead to believe that the Adult Standards format is virtually dead in big urban markets - kind of like 60s Oldies and Country - which are still staples in a lot of small markets.
 
Madmansam said:
How about Adult Standards, to fill the void left by KABL-960? Pappas currently operates an Adult Standards station in Modesto (KMPH-840) in a market served by another Adult Standards Station (KVIN-920).
Click to expand...
KMPH ??? Huh?? I couldn't find that on Radio-Locator. There is NO station licensed to a California city on 840 AM. And don't forget the Vegas station KXNT.

I agree about Adult Standards.

To Lew K ... Art Astor recently converted Ontario's KSPA and Escondido's KFSD to a simulcast of Adult Standards
http://www.am1510kspa.com/
 
Radio-Locator apparently has not updated their info regarding 840 KMPH in Modesto. After Pappas shut down the original KTRB, they replaced it with the newly constructed KMPH. It does, in fact exist!
 
newsperson said:
Newsperson replies:

An AM station in market 80 can certainally be worth millions of dollars. As an example Reno, which is well over market 100 has a 50KW with thousands of listeners and number one in many time slots. It was purchased by Citadel in 1992 for only a million dollars. The station was country and needed growth. They puchased the talk programing rights from KOH in 1993 for another million dollars. The station now bills over a million dollars.

There are other stations that are not 50KW even in unrated markets that make money are are worth in the hundreds of thousand of dollars.

The point brought up is the value of KTRB in San Francsico is huge (maybe 20 million) without any business on it. It will take time for KTRB to develop its programing, audience and advertising revenue. Regardless, with or without revenue KTRB has that value becasue it is in San Francisco.

Anyway my point is that all markets have vaule regardless of size, its how you utilize them. Do you remember the woman who said that it is not always size but how you use it that matters?

Oh...why do you feel that AM is unsexy?
Click to expand...

I personally love AM, but it is much less sexy than FM. No explaining needed there.

I am also well aware the KKOH and others like it in their respective markets are worth a pretty penny. Yes, Reno is around mkt #125, but KKOH is one of few excellent signals on AM in the market, is well established, #1 or #2 12+, etc. There is a halfway decent AM in the Reno market, billing in the $100-150k range, for sale for around $750k. One of the high-band AMs sold not too long ago for around $500k. KTHO in South Lake Tahoe sold for $75k; there was probably an extenuating issue I'm not aware of, but you get the point. So, yes, AMs in Modesto CAN be worth a decent (not huge) sum, but not a station that no one listened to... like KTRB.
 
Why not try the "old" KNBR or KSFO format, people didn't listen for the AM sound of music back then, it was the "personality" format and big name dj's that people tuned in for. Just think with 50,000 watts why not also get some big name sports games (like the A's) instead of dumping them on a low rated no name outlet(for promo reasons). I can tell you I am not old enough for the KABL crowd but too old for the wild 94.9 thing. The 40-55 demograpghics would like something in the middle and believe me we have money to spend.
 
Oh sweet. I liked listening to the Fabulous 690 blowing up out of mexico like a cool-daddy-o breeze from the South alright. That was a really good radio station. KTRB could play that same stuff like Jack Mathis, and Sinatra, and Vic Damone, but also sprinkle some jazzy numbers and have a blues show on weekends. Did you ever hear good blues music. Man-o-man-alive that would be a great thing there.

thank you
Howard
 
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