New oldies???

[davideduardo]

You misunderstood...what I meant by that was how highly certain oldies/classic hits stations across the country are respected in the industry and which also do very well in the ratings, including Philly (#4), Pittsburgh (#3) and New York (#2). And then you have in KOOL in Phoenix where it is #1. I would venture to say KRTH is the most respected station of its kind in the U.S. and which is one of the biggest cash cows in all of radio. And it has a lot of forward momentum and excitement in its delivery and is still fun to listen to. It's a little too conservative for me, but hey, I'd like to hear "Live" by Merry Go Down, "Sit Down I Think I Love You" by the Mojo Men, "Twelve-Thirty" by the Mamas and Papas and "Baja" by the Astronauts all day....but I understand that just isn't to happen on commercial radio.

Ah, the 12+ obfuscation.

KRTH is consistently not in the top 10 in 25-54. And when you take out listeners who only listen to a station 1+ hours a week, which means those who may have actually chosen the station, in the last book, KRTH is 14th in 25-54... and it bills around 10th or 11th in the market, commensurate with a station with its numbers.

WOGL averages 12th on 25-54 total in a multi-book average. WWSW is 7th.

So, despite a signal disadvantage, Walrus fits right in around the average for 25-54 delivery.

 

[airpab]

That's why KOOL/PHX is such a standout station in this format!

#1 25-54....Solid #1 overall in a big market.

Why? Better music, really good DJ's (that actually have something to say & sound like they're having fun).

Kind of a throwback to when Top 40 radio was driven by both the music and the personalities. (KHJ, KFRC, etc)

Not a complex formula...So why don't middling station's across the country (Oldies 103.7. etc) follow their lead??

 

[SDRadio]

Not a complex formula...So why don't middling station's across the country (Oldies 103.7. etc) follow their lead??

Economics. Station equipment never calls in sick, nor needs benefits. An engineer gives TLC when needed and the hits keep on coming.

Being number one doesn't mean you make the most money (in profit).

 

[radioresearcher]

That's why KOOL/PHX is such a standout station in this format!

#1 25-54....Solid #1 overall in a big market.

Why? Better music, really good DJ's (that actually have something to say & sound like they're having fun).

Kind of a throwback to when Top 40 radio was driven by both the music and the personalities. (KHJ, KFRC, etc)

Not a complex formula...So why don't middling station's across the country (Oldies 103.7. etc) follow their lead??

KOOL has the following:

1) Full signal
2) 25+ years of heritage
3) A favorable heavy listening meter right now that is propping them up

KOOL doesn't have the following:

1) An Adult Hits competitor (JACK) that plays lots of 70's and 80's music and has the #1 morning show in the market
as KPKX has moved more Hot AC

 

[radioresearcher]

BTW, New York has nothing even near WCBS-FM musically - they own 15 years of music. Put on an Adult Hits competitor and watch what happens.

 

[davideduardo]

That's why KOOL/PHX is such a standout station in this format!

#1 25-54....Solid #1 overall in a big market.

KOOL is not #1 25-54 in Phoenix. If we extract the not-so-hot Christmas season books, the mid-2010 to September rank is in the same range as it has been in the last 3 months, but about one rank position higher (5th to 4th vs. 5th to 6th).

That change in rank by KOOL is more due to the much lower levels fore KHOT (4th by rolling average then, rolling average of 11th now) and the decline in cool from a Jul-Aug-Sept average of 2nd to an average of 6th in Feb-Mar-Apr. So two went down, and KOOL ranks better... but that is not a measure of KOOL but of market dynamics.

Why? Better music, really good DJ's (that actually have something to say & sound like they're having fun).

The fact is that all thise stations are around a 4 share. Whether that makes them #1 or #12 against other stations depends more on the competitive array, fragmentation of major formats, etc. On average, among 25-54's who listen an hour a week or more, classic hits is listened to by about 12% of a market... so 7 out of 8 25-54s don't even use the format.

Kind of a throwback to when Top 40 radio was driven by both the music and the personalities. (KHJ, KFRC, etc)

The same listeners, 40 years older.

Not a complex formula...So why don't middling station's across the country (Oldies 103.7. etc) follow their lead??

Cost is the main factor, particularly in markets like SD that is now billing at an inflation adjusted 1988 level.

 

[davideduardo]

KOOL has the following:

1) Full signal
2) 25+ years of heritage
3) A favorable heavy listening meter right now that is propping them up

Add in "80% meter turnover between November and January" and we have the hockey players skating on a basketball court. Same arena, different playing surface.

Anecdotally, I interviewed for a sales position at KOOL in '74 in Phoenix and they were oldies in the pseudo-Drake manner... including the "future hit" thing. I was told I didn't have what it takes... which was probably a lack of tolerance for the 120 degree summer days in the Valley of the Melanoma.

 

[radioresearcher]

KOOL has the following:

1) Full signal
2) 25+ years of heritage
3) A favorable heavy listening meter right now that is propping them up

Add in "80% meter turnover between November and January" and we have the hockey players skating on a basketball court. Same arena, different playing surface.

Anecdotally, I interviewed for a sales position at KOOL in '74 in Phoenix and they were oldies in the pseudo-Drake manner... including the "future hit" thing. I was told I didn't have what it takes... which was probably a lack of tolerance for the 120 degree summer days in the Valley of the Melanoma.

David - all these people are trying to tear down The Walrus which has really done very well in a competitive market. It's just over 4 years old, unlike these other stations which have 20+ years of brand heritage, full signals, and very large budgets.

And, yes, most of the panel in PHX has turned over, which is not making things any easier. Oh, and the Spanish preferred meters are off, helping the "other" stations such as KOOL...

 

[canyouhearmenow]

Reality: oldies/classic hits is a comparatively inexpensive music format. If you can get in the Top 5 25-54 with it, you win big time.

Also, the original question I was making was will this radio wizard Mike Shepard make The Walrus sing as it could. That remains to be seen, but dollars to doughnuts this station will start benefit from his refinements and The Walrus will realize its potential.

 

[radioresearcher]

Reality: oldies/classic hits is a comparatively inexpensive music format. If you can get in the Top 5 25-54 with it, you win big time.

Also, the original question I was making was will this radio wizard Mike Shepard make The Walrus sing as it could. That remains to be seen, but dollars to doughnuts this station will start benefit from his refinements and The Walrus will realize its potential.

So basically you're saying any of the previous people are stupid - which I think is insulting and completely off base.

You are also making a lot of assumptions about thing that you know NOTHING about.

 

[Big 121]

Right on, 'canyouhearmenow'.,Mr. Shepard has long time experience in the S.D. market- goin' back to KSEA.
Comparing Apples to Oranges- the Walrus music of Mr. 'H' was a sweet apple; the reformulated Walrus was more like a lemon...
Why would someone take credit for a stations success at #9.... but distance themselves when it sunk to #18?

 

[davideduardo]

Reality: oldies/classic hits is a comparatively inexpensive music format. If you can get in the Top 5 25-54 with it, you win big time.

But most of the classic hits stations are not in the top 5, 25-54. But they don't need to be... they are almost all parts of clusters and complement the younger demos of other cluster components. And in the top 25 markets, being in the top 10 is a fairly good guarantee of financial success.

One of the things that made classic hits possible is the PPM, where this kind of format, with a strong component of P2 and P3 listeners, benefits greatly. And the very tight compression of share / rating in the larger markets means that the distance between the third or fourth ranked station and the 10th or 11th is very small... so selling on reach and frequency often benfits high reach type formats that complement a buy.

As I said, KRTH is not even close to top 5, and that is a station that is not "run on the cheap."

Also, the original question I was making was will this radio wizard Mike Shepard make The Walrus sing as it could. That remains to be seen, but dollars to doughnuts this station will start benefit from his refinements and The Walrus will realize its potential.

...and he will have to challenge the laws of physics, since the signal does not get to much of North County with the signal needed for in-home and at-work listening.

 

[canyouhearmenow]

The question is: will Mike Shepard make The Walrus a better, more compelling sounding station. Signal strength is not the point. I have a strong feeling that he will.

 

[radioresearcher]

The question is: will Mike Shepard make The Walrus a better, more compelling sounding station. Signal strength is not the point. I have a strong feeling that he will.

Compelling once again is subjective. What may be compelling to you is not to someone else.

You say better, the station is performing well.

I think Star 94.1 could be more compelling, but it is #1 by a mile...

What you should be saying is "will Mike Shepard make it sound like I think it should sound."

 

[canyouhearmenow]

Wrong.
What I'm saying is that The Walrus sounds like a boring jukebox right now. I put more effort into a fart than what they put into making this a sharp, fun sounding station. If you also don't get it, then you don't get it and we will just have to disagree.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Wrong.
What I'm saying is that The Walrus sounds like a boring jukebox right now. I put more effort into a fart than what they put into making this a sharp, fun sounding station. If you also don't get it, then you don't get it and we will just have to disagree.

I'm just amazed by your extensive knowledge. Did you ever get beyond board op?

 

[radioresearcher]

Wrong.
What I'm saying is that The Walrus sounds like a boring jukebox right now. I put more effort into a fart than what they put into making this a sharp, fun sounding station. If you also don't get it, then you don't get it and we will just have to disagree.

I'm just amazed by your extensive knowledge. Did you ever get beyond board op?

Or better yet been in the PD's seat when you couldn't make the station sound like you wanted because of budgetary issues.

It's very easy to cast stones when you aren't in the seat. I've been involved (and still are) in enough situations where the programming team makes a recommendation but economics won't allow it.

I'm not saying that it applies to this particular case, but it happens all the time.

And unless you have knowledge of the internal operations of any station, you shouldn't make any public statements which is what you've done and are irresponsible and frankly bars on slander.

 

[radioresearcher]

Wrong.
What I'm saying is that The Walrus sounds like a boring jukebox right now. I put more effort into a fart than what they put into making this a sharp, fun sounding station. If you also don't get it, then you don't get it and we will just have to disagree.

How do you know what kind of "effort" was put into it? Effort is a very dangerous word to describe someone's job performance.

 

[hipman2]

Walrus has been playing reruns of Casey Kasem's AT40 all day. I get to hear a lot of songs oldies radio just never play, many of the songs I'm hearing for the first time ever. Interesting move. Sirius XM 7 has been running the CT's AT40 show on weekends for a few years.

 

[canyouhearmenow]

Hey radeoresearcher, please explain what has been said here that is anywhere close slander? I think libel and slander are words that people use loosely....people who may want stage a snit but who have no idea what the legal meaning of those words are.